End of game. What’s the call?

[cloudofdust]

Team A lines up to kick a FG to win the game. Team B blocks field goal. Ball settles around Team B 20 yard line as time expires.  Team A recovers. During the recovery Team B sideline empties onto the field in celebration because they don’t realize the play is still live. 
What’s the call?

[Yuccaguy]

1 minute ago, cloudofdust said:

Team A lines up to kick a FG to win the game. Team B blocks field goal. Ball settles around Team B 20 yard line as time expires.  Team A recovers. During the recovery Team B sideline empties onto the field in celebration because they don’t realize the play is still live. 
What’s the call?

Did Team B ever "touch" the ball past the Line of scrimmage (20 yard line) in this situation?  

Think of the Leon Lett play.  This seems to be an EXCELLENT example of what you are espousing in order to want Team A to again possess the ball..  

https://youtu.be/0rNQ4puNN5Q?si=v7xx5_OZUMkFcTJU

[cloudofdust]

10 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Did Team B ever "touch" the ball past the Line of scrimmage (20 yard line) in this situation?  

Think of the Leon Lett play.  This seems to be an EXCELLENT example of what you are espousing in order to want Team A to again possess the ball..  

https://youtu.be/0rNQ4puNN5Q?si=v7xx5_OZUMkFcTJU

LOS was 5 yard line. Ball blocked backward to around. 20 yard line. Team A recovers. Flag thrown for Team B entering field of play during live play. 

[Yuccaguy]

1 minute ago, cloudofdust said:

LOS was 5 yard line. Ball blocked backward to around. 20 yard line. Team A recovers. Flag thrown for Team B entering field of play during live play. 

So it DID NOT go forward to the 20 yard line as you originally said you never said it went backwards? 

"Team B blocks field goal. Ball settles around Team B 20 yard line as time expires."

Dead Ball, game over.  Because you said it settled.  I'm trying to figure out how AFTER the time expired, that you could want an 'untimed down'?   It is a sideline warning at best....   Not illegal participation.  

 

 

[cloudofdust]

26 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

So it DID NOT go forward to the 20 yard line as you originally said you never said it went backwards? 

"Team B blocks field goal. Ball settles around Team B 20 yard line as time expires."

Dead Ball, game over.  Because you said it settled.  I'm trying to figure out how AFTER the time expired, that you could want an 'untimed down'?   It is a sideline warning at best....   Not illegal participation.  

 

 

Never said it went forward to the 20 yard line. If we could kick a FG that rolls forward to the 20 after being blocked I’m certain this question would not be asked. That would be about a 40 yard attempt. I said it settles around the 20 yard line and Team A recovers as time expires. The ball was blocked backwards from the 5 to the 20, never crossing the LOS. During the play, immediately after the block and during recovery Team B’s sideline empties. 
Never mentioned illegal participation either. I’m purely asking what the call would be. A flag was thrown, a long conference occurred and the game was over. No signal was given. 

[Yuccaguy]

11 minutes ago, cloudofdust said:

Never said it went forward to the 20 yard line. If we could kick a FG that rolls forward to the 20 after being blocked I’m certain this question would not be asked. That would be about a 40 yard attempt. I said it settles around the 20 yard line and Team A recovers as time expires. The ball was blocked backwards from the 5 to the 20, never crossing the LOS. During the play, immediately after the block and during recovery Team B’s sideline empties. 
Never mentioned illegal participation either. I’m purely asking what the call would be. A flag was thrown, a long conference occurred and the game was over. No signal was given. 

Sorry about the "assumption" then...  And you know what ASS-U-MING means

The flag should have been a sideline warning... But the game should have been ended by the ball settling because of the block behind the LOS.  

Had Team A advanced the ball (prior to the 'settling' of the ball behind) to the line-to-gain... then we'd have had a conundrum to figure out with Team B being on the field of play.  

In this case...as you have given more info.  The contest is done.   

B would/could be assessed a sideline warning (at best).  But at no time could A then possess the ball because they did not make the Line to Gain with the free kick of the ball.  

I'm sorry if this doesn't satisfy what you are wanting in the adjudication of the play.....

Edited September 30, 2023 by Yuccaguy

[cloudofdust]

4 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Sorry about the "assumption" then...  And you know what ASS-U-MING means

The flag should have been a sideline warning... But the game should have been ended by the ball settling because of the block behind the LOS.  

Had Team A advanced the ball (prior to the 'settling' of the ball behind) to the line-to-gain... then we'd have had a conundrum to figure out with Team B being on the field of play.  

In this case...as you have given more info.  The contest is done.   

B would/could be assessed a sideline warning (at best).  But at no time could A then possess the ball because they did not make the Line to Gain with the free kick of the ball.  

I'm sorry if this doesn't satisfy what you are wanting in the adjudication of the play.....

Nope, you’re doing great. It’s truly an odd ending that is hard to describe. We are getting somewhere. Just trying to figure out what actually happened. No one really knows from my point of view. 
The ball was recovered by the kicking team advanced a few yards before being tackled. Line to gain was goal line but here’s the kicker. It was just 3rd and goal. Does that make any difference. 

[Bobref]

There’s a problem with not enough detail in the question. My answer assumes that when A recovers the blocked kick, it had not crossed the neutral zone. There are 2 possibilities here.

1. This is unsportsmanlike conduct on Team B. Because that live ball foul is enforced like a dead ball foul, the period is not extended. Game over.
2. If, in the judgment of the covering official, the B people coming off the sideline interfered with any possible chance Team A had to recover and advance the ball, however small, it’s a live ball foul for illegal participation by B. It’s going to be A’s ball for an untimed down after enforcement of the 15 yd. penalty.

This is essentially a copy of the play that came at the end of a very big game in Indianapolis 4 yrs. ago. They went with option 2 in that game. That choice is fully supportable because the blocked kick went directly toward the B sideline in the area where the players were coming onto the field from the bench.

[Yuccaguy]

1 minute ago, cloudofdust said:

Nope, you’re doing great. It’s truly an odd ending that is hard to describe. We are getting somewhere. Just trying to figure out what actually happened. No one really knows from my point of view. 
The ball was recovered by the kicking team advanced a few yards before being tackled. Line to gain was goal line but here’s the kicker. It was just 3rd and goal. Does that make any difference. 

Could, but with time having expired without a penalty that would 'extend' the period....  It still is a situation that ends the contest.

Had there been yardage attached, to the situation (with the picking up of the flag...there was not) .  You could not have a situation that would extend the period with an untimed down.  

May I suggest that YOU forward this to the IFOA for a training video?   

 

[cloudofdust]

Just now, Yuccaguy said:

Could, but with time having expired without a penalty that would 'extend' the period....  It still is a situation that ends the contest.

Had there been yardage attached, to the situation (with the picking up of the flag...there was not) .  You could not have a situation that would extend the period with an untimed down.  

May I suggest that YOU forward this to the IFOA for a training video?   

 

I don’t have the capacity to send any video. Purely just trying to understand what was called and why. I figured after the long conference the correct call was made. This has been helpful. Thank you. 

[cloudofdust]

8 minutes ago, Bobref said:

There’s a problem with not enough detail in the question. My answer assumes that when A recovers the blocked kick, it had not crossed the neutral zone. There are 2 possibilities here.

1. This is unsportsmanlike conduct on Team B. Because that live ball foul is enforced like a dead ball foul, the period is not extended. Game over.
2. If, in the judgment of the covering official, the B people coming off the sideline interfered with any possible chance Team A had to recover and advance the ball, however small, it’s a live ball foul for illegal participation by B. It’s going to be A’s ball for an untimed down after enforcement of the 15 yd. penalty.

This is essentially a copy of the play that came at the end of a very big game in Indianapolis 4 yrs. ago. They went with option 2 in that game. That choice is fully supportable because the blocked kick went directly toward the B sideline in the area where the players were coming onto the field from the bench.

This is as clear cut of an answer as it gets. Sorry Yucca… Bob wins this match. 

The ball was recovered opposite of Team B sideline. Those players had no real effect on the result of the play. 

[Yuccaguy]

Just now, cloudofdust said:

I don’t have the capacity to send any video. Purely just trying to understand what was called and why. I figured after the long conference the correct call was made. This has been helpful. Thank you. 

Thank you.  At this point.  Though I believe my understanding of THIS sport is great.

I am can learn much more from those whom I have "been there-done that".  

If you could reach out to the administration and have them send the IFOA a video of the play, it would be wonderful.

On behalf of ALL Officials...  We are NOT PERFECT.    

These scenarios help us 'learn' and become better on Friday nights (and beyond) .....

[Yuccaguy]

1 minute ago, cloudofdust said:

This is as clear cut of an answer as it gets. Sorry Yucca… Bob wins this match. 

The ball was recovered opposite of Team B sideline. Those players had no real effect on the result of the play. 

Bob is MY Mentor.  I've learned more from him, and employed things in my FB career that you can never comprehend.   

I just try to be a conduit until he arrives and gives a better view of situations ....  He can ALWAYS give me guidance! 

I'm not an attorney...  Hell I can barely balance my finances...    😁