[Bobref]

Brett St. Germain, who won a state championship at Andrean, just left that HC position to become the offensive coordinator at Crown Point. His predecessor at Andrean, Wally McCormack, left Andrean after a single season in which he took them to the Dome, to become HC at Hobart. I have no inside information whatsoever on what motivated these two fine coaches to go elsewhere despite being very successful at Andrean. But many have observed that the compensation paid to coaches at P/Ps lags well behind that at comparable public schools. Is that true, and does it result in greater turnover at P/Ps as their successful coaches move on? Are there other instances where this has happened? Are there instances of successful public school coaches moving to P/Ps, or is this a "one-way" street?

A corollary issue for those P/P supporters and detractors who are looking for unspoken claims of "unfair advantages" in every topic: if P/Ps are so intent on using athletic success as part of the "recruiting" process, wouldn't they pay their coaches more, not less?

[jdknight]

at lcc not only is the pay less for coaching but the teaching salaries are a lot less then public schools.. coach g would know more about this.. but he might want to keep that to himself.. i would say pay is the main reason for a high turnover rate..

This post has been edited by jdknight: 26 February 2008 - 04:58 PM

[E.T. Bass]

Bobref, on Feb 26 2008, 05:33 PM, said:

A corollary issue for those P/P supporters and detractors who are looking for unspoken claims of "unfair advantages" in every topic: if P/Ps are so intent on using athletic success as part of the "recruiting" process, wouldn't they pay their coaches more, not less?

That is a very interesting question.

[warrior06]

jdknight, on Feb 26 2008, 04:58 PM, said:

at lcc not only is the pay less for coaching but the teaching salaries are a lot less then public schools.. coach g would know more about this.. but he might want to keep that to himself.. i would say pay is the main reason for a high turnover rate..

It is all about the teaching salaries and the retirement programs which are available. The Indiana Teachers' Retirment is available at the public schools. Coaching salaries are either low or lower, and therefore noone is coaching for the money, except for ...... well, maybe a few singled out individuals...... Even the teaching salaries at public schools vary considerably.

[Ty Webb]

What can a teacher/coach make for being a HC for football at a public school in Indiana?

What can a teacher/coach make for being a HC for football at a private school in Indiana?

What is the range??


I recall an article a few years ago about some head coaches at the big schools in the Chicago suburbs making over $100,000 as a teacher and HC for football. I doubt anyone in Indiana is at that level.

Ty

[OCoordinator]

I wish I still had this link but I was e-mailed a link that one could type in any public Indiana high school and one could find out the head and assistant coaching salaries for all sports at that school. An estimation would be most football assistants are around 4,000 and heads are around 8,000 of course the link did not include p/p schools. I will look for the link on my work computer and repost when I find it.

This post has been edited by WideOutCoach5: 26 February 2008 - 06:39 PM

[Robert]

I think it is the base salary that is more important. I can tell you that if I was at a local private school, I would make $12,000 less a year. At the local charter school, I would have made $8,000.00 less. That is base salary, not coaching stipend.

[Bobref]

To my way of thinking, this is the kind of topic that makes the Forum so valuable for me. I'm learning stuff that I couldn't get anywhere else. This brings to mind a few other questions:

-- In these days of fiscal belt-tightening, how common is it for a coach to earn his living just doing coaching-related things, i.e., without actually teaching any class not related to his coaching duties?

-- Is there any prohibition, other than the fiscal restraints alluded to above, that would preclude a school from paying a coach a considerable sum of money to coach, and do nothing else? For example, would the coach have to be a member of the collective bargaining unit and would his salary be constrained by the terms of the typical bargaining agreement between a teacher's organization and the school district?

-- Is there anything that would prevent a donor, or a booster club, from augmenting a coaching salary with non tax generated dollars? For example, could the booster club donate $50K to the school and earmark it for the head football coaches' salary? Could an individual donor?

-- What do topflight head coaches in states like Ohio, Florida, Texas, Georgia, and California -- where high school football is a huge industry -- make, compared to their Indiana counterparts?

It seems to me that one of the ways to raise the level of football played in Indiana is to attract more and better coaches. Money is one way -- not the only way -- but one way to do that. What are some creative ways to finance coaching salaries that will lure the best and the brightest to Indiana?

[Ty Webb]

$441,612 CARY CCSD 26
$439,803 BELLWOOD SD 88
$329,404 SOUTH EASTERN SP ED PROGRAM
$174,403 LOCKPORT TWP HSD 205
$170,172 LOCKPORT TWP HSD 205
$165,370 LEMONT TWP HSD 210
$164,232 LEYDEN CHSD 212
$163,327 LEYDEN CHSD 212
$163,184 ADLAI E STEVENSON HSD 125
$163,144 NORTHFIELD TWP HSD 225

These are the top ten teacher salaries in Illinois for the year 2006. I doubt that there are many in Indiana that make these salaries even with lots of extra-curricular.

I got these from a website that listed the top 100 teacher salaries in Illinois - The top three must be some sort of specialist because they had a total of seven years teaching experience between them. The teacher at the 100th spot on the top 100 list made $140,955 and had 27 years experience and a master's degree.

My point is if you can make $100,000 plus as a teacher, why would you ever take a HC job for $8000?

Coaches are vastly underpaid when you figure the total numbers of hours put in doing prep, laundry, travel, practice, film, and games. Teachers, as a rule, are underpaid just like police and fire personnel. But why on earth would you add coaching for such low pay, Public or Private? The point is... there has to be something besides money involved in wanting to coach....

It must be the warm interaction and the support of the parents and fans that push people to coach!

Ty

[Ty Webb]

Bobref, on Feb 26 2008, 08:22 PM, said:

-- What do topflight head coaches in states like Ohio, Florida, Texas, Georgia, and California -- where high school football is a huge industry -- make, compared to their Indiana counterparts?

It seems to me that one of the ways to raise the level of football played in Indiana is to attract more and better coaches. Money is one way -- not the only way -- but one way to do that. What are some creative ways to finance coaching salaries that will lure the best and the brightest to Indiana?

I like the way Bobref is thinking....

Ty

[Bobref]

Ty Webb, on Feb 26 2008, 06:30 PM, said:

The point is... there has to be something besides money involved in wanting to coach....

It must be the warm interaction and the support of the parents and fans that push people to coach!

Ty

Or perhaps the frequent opportunities to harass officials. :lol:

[Sportsguy]

Bobref, on Feb 26 2008, 04:33 PM, said:

Brett St. Germain, who won a state championship at Andrean, just left that HC position to become the offensive coordinator at Crown Point. His predecessor at Andrean, Wally McCormack, left Andrean after a single season in which he took them to the Dome, to become HC at Hobart. I have no inside information whatsoever on what motivated these two fine coaches to go elsewhere despite being very successful at Andrean. But many have observed that the compensation paid to coaches at P/Ps lags well behind that at comparable public schools. Is that true, and does it result in greater turnover at P/Ps as their successful coaches move on? Are there other instances where this has happened? Are there instances of successful public school coaches moving to P/Ps, or is this a "one-way" street?

A corollary issue for those P/P supporters and detractors who are looking for unspoken claims of "unfair advantages" in every topic: if P/Ps are so intent on using athletic success as part of the "recruiting" process, wouldn't they pay their coaches more, not less?

I believe in this particular instance (Andrean) it may have had more to do with the coaches themselves and where they went after AHS. McCormack went to a legendary program and St. Germain is headed to study at the feet of the master himself, Chip Pettit. Not exactly lateral or backward moves.

[Bobref]

Sportsguy, on Feb 26 2008, 06:58 PM, said:

I believe in this particular instance (Andrean) it may have had more to do with the coaches themselves and where they went after AHS. McCormack went to a legendary program and St. Germain is headed to study at the feet of the master himself, Chip Pettit. Not exactly lateral or backward moves.

Scuttlebut is that Chip wants to get into administration, and that St. Germain is being positioned as his successor. The AD is Bill Dorulla, himself a former head football coach at Chesterton. Man, I would pay money to hear those 3 sit around and talk football.

[CoachGallogly]

More than just straight salary to consider when comparing compensation of PP's to Public. Salary is one category, but benefits, coaching pay, etc. all will come into play.

Obviously sacrafices are made by anyone that chooses to work in the PP setting, the question generally comes down to what sacrafices you are willing to make.

I know one factor at LCC which made life rough, was what I was able to pay my assistants. 6K for the entire staff....compared to other public 1A schools I think that is small, compared to bigger public schools that is crazy. I know there are 5A coordinators that make something not too far from that number. While as a head coach you might be willing to make sacrafices, it's very difficult to convince a 1st year teacher to come and accept a job at a LCC for 22K teaching and 1K coaching. When that same person could go to McCutcheon and bring home 10K+ more. Just one of the challanges. I'm really curious how many other PP coaches have guys in the building with them. In my 4 years at LCC I never had 1 assistant in the building with me, and at Brebeuf our "Zero Hour" APC instructor is in the building but not 1 full time teacher either. I know at Chatard there is only 1 assistant in the building, etc. I wonder how many top 5 public schools don't have any assistants in the building.

[The Gridiron Digest]

As a former President of the Teachers Union I advocated that coaches should be able to bargain their own salaries for coaching. It was rejected quite flatly by the rank and file.

Don't even have to debate this, what is better for job security?

Point: Coach is fired retains teaching job.
Point: Coach is fired keeps teaching job and now there are no teaching openings to hire another head coach.
Point: Some administrators believe when you are fired as a head coach you should be fired as a teacher as well...hmmmmmmmm is that fair?
Point: My highest Salary as an assistant coach was $4200 dollars, I made about 25 Cents and hour in time put into the football program. My Summers were free while the head coach got a summer stipend. I recalled when the doors were opened for workouts I was there to.

What are some of you advocating?

Tim Adams
The Indiana Gridiron Digest