Explain to me again ???

[XStar]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

One thing I used to love about sectional championships was when it worked out that two good teams were in the finals and you could see all the different schools’ letter jackets in attendance.

Still see it all the time.  Even in some matchups where one team is a big favorite.  Some people are going to find a game and go to it.  Still think those most of those people are going to find a game to be at every weekend.  It's not as if there isn't a good matchup somewhere every weekend of the playoffs.  I know that's how I've always operated.  Already this season I've seen games in the Indy area, the Kokomo area, and the South Bend area.  Going to see one near Fort Wayne in the upcoming weeks and probably one near Marion before the end of the season.  Even during the regular season, there's a good game somewhere.  In the postseason, it's even easier to find one.  

Edited October 7, 2021 by XStar

[XStar]

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

You meet fans and players from different schools at the sectional championship. I met a quarterback from Carroll who was eliminated and came to watch Snider in the sectional championship. I met a couple of older gentlemen from Garrett during a sectional game between Snider and Homestead. When the sectional championship comprises of two teams with good records, big crowds are the result.

When Lewis Cass and Pioneer played in the first round of the playoffs in 2019 when they were two of the top teams in all of 2A, the stands weren't exactly empty.  

If Brebeuf and West Lafayette square off in the first round this year, I'll probably go to that game and then find another good game in other sectionals in northern Indiana in the subsequent rounds of the sectional.  In fact, having a blind draw usually generates great games in every round of the sectional instead of clustering them all in one weekend.  

 

Big games = big crowds no matter when they are played.  

Edited October 7, 2021 by XStar

[Bobref]

10 minutes ago, XStar said:

Still see it all the time.  Even in some matchups where one team is a big favorite.  Some people are going to find a game and go to it.  Still think those most of those people are going to find a game to be at every weekend.  It's not as if there isn't a good matchup somewhere every weekend of the playoffs.  I know that's how I've always operated.  Already this season I've seen games in the Indy area, the Kokomo area, and the South Bend area.  Going to see one near Fort Wayne in the upcoming weeks and probably one near Marion before the end of the season.  Even during the regular season, there's a good game somewhere.  In the postseason, it's even easier to find one.  

Do you see yourself as a typical fan? How many like you are out there?

[XStar]

1 minute ago, Bobref said:

Do you see yourself as a typical fan? How many like you are out there?

No.  I'm sure most fans are far more casual.  I still think the vast majority aren't going anywhere after whatever "their team" is drops out.  Then there are some like you described who might go see a good matchup but only if it's local and a big game.  Then there are some like me that find a good matchup to go to pretty much any weekend they can.  I don't think the numbers in the 2nd and 3rd groups move the needle much either way. 

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, XStar said:

If Brebeuf and West Lafayette square off in the first round this year, I'll probably go to that game and then find another good game in other sectionals in northern Indiana in the subsequent rounds of the sectional.  In fact, having a blind draw usually generates great games in every round of the sectional instead of clustering them all in one weekend. 

I’m guessing you aren’t the typical high school football fan. Would guess most high school fans are partial to either a specific school or town. Still an interesting perspective and cool nonetheless.

Going to be a tough sell getting the casual Indy high school football fan to make the trip to West Lafayette the first or second weekend of sectionals with so many games in the area to choose from.

[jets]

Again - back to the topic at hand - can anyone explain WHY the reluctance to NOT seed the sectionals?? After 3 pages on this thread, I still don't see a valid argument?? 

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, jets said:

Again - back to the topic at hand - can anyone explain WHY the reluctance to NOT seed the sectionals?? After 3 pages on this thread, I still don't see a valid argument?? 

I think MOST are in favor of at least some type of seeding, even if it’s just seeding the top two teams. But you’d have to petition the IHSAA as to why something hasn’t taken place.

[XStar]

5 minutes ago, jets said:

Again - back to the topic at hand - can anyone explain WHY the reluctance to NOT seed the sectionals?? After 3 pages on this thread, I still don't see a valid argument?? 

I gave you one.  If you don't acknowledge it, that's on you.  

[jets]

35 minutes ago, XStar said:

I gave you one.  If you don't acknowledge it, that's on you.  

So according to your argument, just so I understand- the reluctance to seed sectionals is it really doesn’t matter if two 9-0 teams play week 1 of sectionals or for the championship?? While two 1-8 and 2-7 move on?? 

I’m sorry, but I just don’t agree with that logic that it doesn’t matter. 

[XStar]

1 minute ago, jets said:

So according to your argument, just so I understand- the reluctance to seed sectionals is it really doesn’t matter if two 9-0 teams play week 1 of sectionals or for the championship?? While two 1-8 and 2-7 move on?? 

I’m sorry, but I just don’t agree with that logic that it doesn’t matter. 

You don't have to agree with it to acknowledge that there are people that think that way.  I don't agree with your logic either but I acknowledge that your position exists.  

[Bobref]

35 minutes ago, XStar said:

You don't have to agree with it to acknowledge that there are people that think that way.  I don't agree with your logic either but I acknowledge that your position exists.  

There are also people who believe the earth is flat.

[Trojanmp52]

My thought on this is not when who plays who but where.  I have said a few times on here over the years with talking to people.  It does matter when you have to play a team but more where.  Each class should be seeded 1 threw 64 or 32.  And the higher seed should be the home team no matter what unless for some reason their field is not playable 

[Donnie Baker]

11 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

My thought on this is not when who plays who but where.  I have said a few times on here over the years with talking to people.  It does matter when you have to play a team but more where.  Each class should be seeded 1 threw 64 or 32.  And the higher seed should be the home team no matter what unless for some reason their field is not playable 

There’s no accurate way to seed 64 teams. I swear to God there isn’t 

[XStar]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

There are also people who believe the earth is flat.

And others who think it's a good idea to seed sectionals only.  

[JustRules]

One of the reasons there is opposition is there are enough coaches who hold out hope they will draw another weak team in their sectional and get a tournament win. If they seed the sectionals it is much more likely they'll get paired with a top seeded team on the road and get blown out. I'm not sure how much of a factor that is, but I've heard coaches share this belief. Bobref has mentioned several times if they seed the sectional it will ultimately lead to a qualifying tournament. I think there is truth to that.

[BTF]

10 hours ago, XStar said:

10 hours ago, XStar said:

Still see it all the time.  Even in some matchups where one team is a big favorite.  Some people are going to find a game and go to it.  

On a much smaller scale. I've been going to games for a long time. When the two best teams in the sectional meet for the championship, the crowd difference is largely measurable. Your argument just doesn't hold water. 

[BTF]

10 hours ago, XStar said:

When Lewis Cass and Pioneer played in the first round of the playoffs in 2019 when they were two of the top teams in all of 2A, the stands weren't exactly empty.  

If Brebeuf and West Lafayette square off in the first round this year, I'll probably go to that game and then find another good game in other sectionals in northern Indiana in the subsequent rounds of the sectional.  In fact, having a blind draw usually generates great games in every round of the sectional instead of clustering them all in one weekend.  

 

Big games = big crowds no matter when they are played.  

I promise, if those two teams played in the sectional final, all schools would have benefited from more revenue. It's important to pump money into your local athletic department, it's YOUR community after all.  It's bad enough that the casual fan would rather go watch a bunch of players wearing Colts jerseys who make millions of dollars and have no ties to the state of Indiana. Or that a fan would prefer to dump hundreds of dollars in a college game versus supporting the local kids down the street. Every dime counts. The Pioneer/Lewis Cass game would have seen an increase in attendance of 100 fans had it been played a week or two later. In a large city like Fort Wayne, the difference could be 1000. That's a lot of money for the schools, you can't deny this. 

[Trojanmp52]

9 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

There’s no accurate way to seed 64 teams. I swear to God there isn’t 

I can agree with that but you could Get close with doing 32 for the north and 32 in the south 

[Footballking16]

7 hours ago, JustRules said:

If they seed the sectionals it is much more likely they'll get paired with a top seeded team on the road and get blown out. I'm not sure how much of a factor that is, but I've heard coaches share this belief. Bobref has mentioned several times if they seed the sectional it will ultimately lead to a qualifying tournament. I think there is truth to that.

Bobref has been the longest advocate on the GID for a playoff qualification and I've adopted his thoughts in the last 6 or 7 years. I do believe seeding would ultimately lead to a playoff qualification system. There are very few sectionals in the state that have widespread parity and pitting the two best teams furthest away from each other would ensure more blowouts in the first two rounds. 

As it stands now the IHSAA can justify 70 point blowouts because "it's the luck of the draw". They would no longer have that justification once they artificially manipulate the field. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Footballking16

[XStar]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

On a much smaller scale. I've been going to games for a long time. When the two best teams in the sectional meet for the championship, the crowd difference is largely measurable. Your argument just doesn't hold water. 

On the other hand, your argument is simply anecdotal evidence as well so I'm not sure what makes you think your argument carries any more weight than anyone else's.  I didn't just start going to high school football games in the past 5 years either.  

[XStar]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

I promise, if those two teams played in the sectional final, all schools would have benefited from more revenue. It's important to pump money into your local athletic department, it's YOUR community after all.  It's bad enough that the casual fan would rather go watch a bunch of players wearing Colts jerseys who make millions of dollars and have no ties to the state of Indiana. Or that a fan would prefer to dump hundreds of dollars in a college game versus supporting the local kids down the street. Every dime counts. The Pioneer/Lewis Cass game would have seen an increase in attendance of 100 fans had it been played a week or two later. In a large city like Fort Wayne, the difference could be 1000. That's a lot of money for the schools, you can't deny this. 

You have zero evidence to support those claims.  Tons of other factors to consider.  What other local championship games are being played.  What the weather is like.  The programs involved.  Capacities and the ability to go and actually see the game if the stands are full and people are already lined around the fence while the game is also being aired online.  

But please tell me what it was like in 1982.  

[PHJIrish]

12 hours ago, Bobref said:

There are also people who believe the earth is flat.

And there are people that think the rule book is gospel.  Love ya, Brother Bob!😉

[Dolts]

I've always been a fan of seeding the top 2 teams in each sectional with the idea that those 2 teams meeting in the sectional championship would create a bigger profit for the member schools.  But if the worst team in your sectional has to go on the road to the best team, or vice versa isn't there a realistic chance that the attendance at that game is minimal because everyone knows what is about to happen?

You're going to gain attendance at the championship game but lose it in round 1.  There's a chance you don't actually make that much more money after you reimburse said school for the lack of profit in Round 1 and then your total sectional profit is divided by the 8 teams in your sectional.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, XStar said:

On the other hand, your argument is simply anecdotal evidence as well so I'm not sure what makes you think your argument carries any more weight than anyone else's.  I didn't just start going to high school football games in the past 5 years either.  

I just hope that administrators and IHSAA officials around the state are following this topic so they understand how much revenue they are costing their athletic departments. 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, XStar said:

But please tell me what it was like in 1982.  

There was no streaming on the internet back then. Fans were more passionate about going out and watching a game on Friday night rain or shine, home or away. Schools like Hobart would bring 2500 fans to Fort Wayne to watch their team.