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Jim Harbaugh and the Chicago Bears are a Natural Fit


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32 minutes ago, temptation said:

But with 130+ FBS teams, claiming that an obvious top ten program is "not nationally relevant" is a bold take...even for an IU fan.

6 of the top 10 most watched college football games this past fall involved Michigan.. 

You'd trade places with me in a heartbeat, no?

Slap has 5 banners BrUh

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7 minutes ago, DE said:

Slap has 5 banners BrUh

And just like Michigan, Indiana basketball has been a nationally irrelevant basketball program in the last 20 years. Have no shame in admitting that. IU basketball still draws huge TV ratings, always one of the top revenue producers each year, etc...it means jack shit in the W-L column. 

Michigan needs to worry about becoming the best team in its own state before anything else. 

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

And just like Michigan, Indiana basketball has been a nationally irrelevant basketball program in the last 20 years. Have no shame in admitting that. IU basketball still draws huge TV ratings, always one of the top revenue producers each year, etc...it means jack shit in the W-L column. 

Michigan needs to worry about becoming the best team in its own state before anything else. 

First step is to admission.  We are proud of you.

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

And just like Michigan, Indiana basketball has been a nationally irrelevant basketball program in the last 20 years. Have no shame in admitting that. IU basketball still draws huge TV ratings, always one of the top revenue producers each year, etc...it means jack shit in the W-L column. 

Michigan needs to worry about becoming the best team in its own state before anything else. 

The Michigan football/Indiana basketball analogy does fit on some levels, particularly with the fanbases but I'm pretty sure 2021 solidified Michigan and Harbaugh as more than just a brand.  Unranked to the college football playoff is hard to ignore.  Even in years where Michigan has "only " managed to finish in the top 20 (considered a down year), IU hasn't been able to make a 68 team field in basketball.  That's where the analogy falls apart.

I am just enamored by your definition of "nationally relevant."

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1 minute ago, temptation said:

The Michigan football/Indiana basketball analogy does fit on some levels, particularly with the fanbases but I'm pretty sure 2021 solidified Michigan and Harbaugh as more than just a brand.  Unranked to the college football playoff is hard to ignore.  Even in years where Michigan has "only " managed to finish in the top 20 (considered a down year), IU hasn't been able to make a 68 team field in basketball.  That's where the analogy falls apart.

I am just enamored by your definition of "nationally relevant."

2021 is an outlier for Michigan.

Michigan has finished unranked in the AP as many times as they've finished ranked since Carr retired. Michigan isn't anywhere close to the program it used to be, # of viewers be damned. A bunch of dummies who still think Bo Schembelcher is the coach. 

You can't beat Michigan State on a regular basis these days and are only competitive with Ohio State in one out of every five years. Michigan hasn't won a meaningful bowl game in ages and it's been a decade plus since you've been to the Rose Bowl. 

Have program standards fallen that far up in Ann Arbor? Are these what the "boots on the ground" are preaching these days?

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30 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

2021 is an outlier for Michigan.

Michigan has finished unranked in the AP as many times as they've finished ranked since Carr retired. Michigan isn't anywhere close to the program it used to be, # of viewers be damned. A bunch of dummies who still think Bo Schembelcher is the coach. 

You can't beat Michigan State on a regular basis these days and are only competitive with Ohio State in one out of every five years. Michigan hasn't won a meaningful bowl game in ages and it's been a decade plus since you've been to the Rose Bowl. 

Have program standards fallen that far up in Ann Arbor? Are these what the "boots on the ground" are preaching these days?

2020 was an outlier for Michigan.  They are a solid 9-11 win program year in and year out and have been forever.  Bowl games are an embarrassing and overrated metric in the modern era of football.  With opt outs for teams that miss the CFP, they are organized scrimmages/spring games.

The MSU record is what it is and I cannot argue with the final scores.  But as I am sure you already know, three of Michigan's four losses to MSU under Harbaugh have come down to 1-2 plays.  Michigan just happened to be on the losing side of all three.  That is Harbaugh's new priority #1 in my opinion.  He has to get that rivalry back under control.

 

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9 minutes ago, temptation said:

2020 was an outlier for Michigan.  They are a solid 9-11 win program year in and year out and have been forever.  Bowl games are an embarrassing and overrated metric in the modern era of football.  With opt outs for teams that miss the CFP, they are organized scrimmages/spring games.

Michigan used to be the cream of the crop in the B10. Ohio State is a full marathon ahead of the Wolverines right now. Michigan used to be a top 5 program, they're arguably only a top 3 or 4 program in the B10 right now. Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan State have all played in and won Rose Bowls in the last 10 years.

Say what you want about Michigan and not winning bowls that don't matter, you can't beat any of your rivals. By what metric does Michigan measure their football program then? You aren't beating Michigan St. You aren't beating Ohio State. And you sure as hell aren't winning postseason games. So your barometer of success is beating up on Indiana, Northwestern, Maryland, Rutgers of the world??? Sounds like a top ten program to me.

Keep doing what you need to do to rationalize.

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45 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

2021 is an outlier for Michigan.

Michigan has finished unranked in the AP as many times as they've finished ranked since Carr retired. Michigan isn't anywhere close to the program it used to be, # of viewers be damned. A bunch of dummies who still think Bo Schembelcher is the coach. 

You can't beat Michigan State on a regular basis these days and are only competitive with Ohio State in one out of every five years. Michigan hasn't won a meaningful bowl game in ages and it's been a decade plus since you've been to the Rose Bowl. 

Have program standards fallen that far up in Ann Arbor? Are these what the "boots on the ground" are preaching these days?

😂

I'm not even a Michigan fan and I see the insanity in that statement.

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Just now, DE said:

😂

I'm not even a Michigan fan and I see the insanity in that statement.

What's the insanity of it?

Michigan's finish in the B10 east since Harbaugh's arrival:

3rd

3rd

4th

T-1st

3rd

T-5th

T-1st

Acting like Michigan is some program who year in and year out is competing for B10 titles and NY6/playoff appearances is ludicrous. Would it kill you to do your own research or are you incapable? 

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

What's the insanity of it?

Michigan's finish in the B10 east since Harbaugh's arrival:

3rd

3rd

4th

T-1st

3rd

T-5th

T-1st

Acting like Michigan is some program who year in and year out is competing for B10 titles and NY6/playoff appearances is ludicrous. Would it kill you to do your own research or are you incapable? 

Outlier also.

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

Finishing 3rd or worst in your own division in 5 of the 7 years you've been a head coach is a trend my friend. Teams that finish 3rd or worst in their own division aren't competing for national titles. Read the room. 

No room to read.  Just pointing out your inaccuracies you are spouting as "facts".

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10 minutes ago, DE said:

I already told you.  Read the room.

Michigan hasn't sniffed a conference title in 5/7 years Harbaugh has been the head coach. That is a trend. The rest are outliers. The only other year Michigan finished better than 3rd in their own division was 2018 in which they lost to Notre Dame, gave up 62 to Ohio State in a winner take all game, and got embarrassed in their bowl game. There isn't a true Wolverine fan alive that would call that a successful season.

Wal-Mart fans like Temptation might think so since winning 10 games is somehow the barometer of a successful season, but real Michigan fans who have at least seen Michigan as an elite program realize how far away from national relevancy they really are. 

Top 10 nationally relevant program my ass lol. Can't even compete for a a division title  70% of the time during Harbaugh's tenure. 

Thanks for the laugh fellas. 

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4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Michigan hasn't sniffed a conference title in 5/7 years Harbaugh has been the head coach. That is a trend. The rest are outliers. The only other year Michigan finished better than 3rd in their own division was 2018 in which they lost to Notre Dame, gave up 62 to Ohio State in a winner take all game, and got embarrassed in their bowl game. There isn't a true Wolverine fan alive that would call that a successful season.

Wal-Mart fans like Temptation might think so since winning 10 games is somehow the barometer of a successful season, but real Michigan fans who have at least seen Michigan as an elite program realize how far away from national relevancy they really are. 

Top 10 nationally relevant program my ass lol. Can't even compete for a a division title  70% of the time during Harbaugh's tenure. 

Thanks for the laugh fellas. 

Michigan entered both the 2016 and 2018 (as well as the 2021) Ohio State game with control of its own destiny in terms of winning the Big Ten East title.  I've already said that you can throw out 2020 and anyone who disagrees (see #LEO) is incredibly dense.  So your first statement is inaccurate immediately.

I saw the spouting back and forth that you and others had in another OT thread about the Big Ten realigning divisions and you already know that the Big Ten East is the 2nd toughest division in all of college football.  It sucks to have not won it until 2021, but often a top 3-4 finish in the Big Ten East still yields a top 15 finish nationally.  Let's not pretend its the MAC or Conference USA here chief.  I saw your suggestions in the aforementioned thread and decided not to engage.  
 

The current gap between the "haves and the have nots" in college football is greater than its ever been.  By your definition, it sounds like every program not named Alabama, Georgia, Clemson or Ohio State is "irrelevant."  Those four programs are playing at another level completely from the rest of the country and if you don't think Michigan (along with 6-8 other college programs) are in that second tier, you are drunk.

You already knew all of this already but you are just doubling down on your stupidity instead of admitting you are wrong.

I want you to name 10 programs that are more nationally relevant that Michigan and upload a picture of yourself doing it with a straight face.

Spoiler alert:  You can't.

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4 minutes ago, DE said:

With everything that has been said, I think JH would have done well in Chicago, Minnesota or still at UM.

Yep, the man knows FOOTBALL.  Spring boards me to another question...who is on the short list of coaches that have actually SUCCEEDED at both the college AND pro levels?

Jim Harbaugh?

Barry Switzer?

Jimmy Johnson?

Pete Carroll?

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5 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yep, the man knows FOOTBALL.  Spring boards me to another question...who is on the short list of coaches that have actually SUCCEEDED at both the college AND pro levels?

Jim Harbaugh?

Barry Switzer?

Jimmy Johnson?

Pete Carroll?

The facts prove all 4 were successful.  I have heard and read arguments that Switzer won w/ JJ's talent.  Which is true, but you STILL need to coach and manage those guys.  Especially some of the egos that were on that team.

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20 minutes ago, temptation said:

Michigan entered both the 2016 and 2018 (as well as the 2021) Ohio State game with control of its own destiny in terms of winning the Big Ten East title.  I've already said that you can throw out 2020 and anyone who disagrees (see #LEO) is incredibly dense.  So your first statement is inaccurate immediately.

I saw the spouting back and forth that you and others had in another OT thread about the Big Ten realigning divisions and you already know that the Big Ten East is the 2nd toughest division in all of college football.  It sucks to have not won it until 2021, but often a top 3-4 finish in the Big Ten East still yields a top 15 finish nationally.  Let's not pretend its the MAC or Conference USA here chief.  I saw your suggestions in the aforementioned thread and decided not to engage.  
 

The current gap between the "haves and the have nots" in college football is greater than its ever been.  By your definition, it sounds like every program not named Alabama, Georgia, Clemson or Ohio State is "irrelevant."  Those four programs are playing at another level completely from the rest of the country and if you don't think Michigan (along with 6-8 other college programs) are in that second tier, you are drunk.

You already knew all of this already but you are just doubling down on your stupidity instead of admitting you are wrong.

I want you to name 10 programs that are more nationally relevant that Michigan and upload a picture of yourself doing it with a straight face.

Spoiler alert:  You can't.

You can continue to tell yourself 2020 doesn't count. Not only does 2020 count, it happened and it was real. It was so real that Harbaugh was forced to take a 50% pay cut just to stay employed.

No doubt the B10 East is a tough division, never argued otherwise. And Michigan is only the 3rd or 4th best team in that division. So what?

Why do you care what I think about Michigan? It's a has been program that finally had a good year and yet is still blowing up in their face. Head coach wanting out of Dodge, top assistant taking a demotion to go to Miami, replacing a defensive coordinator with a nobody, etc. It's just funny to me. Counting down the days watching a 9-3 Michigan team lose once again in the Gator Bowl while its fans incessantly yell, "WE'RE A TOP 10 PROGRAM"!!!!

Rinse, lather, repeat. 

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49 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You can continue to tell yourself 2020 doesn't count. Not only does 2020 count, it happened and it was real. It was so real that Harbaugh was forced to take a 50% pay cut just to stay employed.

No doubt the B10 East is a tough division, never argued otherwise. And Michigan is only the 3rd or 4th best team in that division. So what?

Why do you care what I think about Michigan? It's a has been program that finally had a good year and yet is still blowing up in their face. Head coach wanting out of Dodge, top assistant taking a demotion to go to Miami, replacing a defensive coordinator with a nobody, etc. It's just funny to me. Counting down the days watching a 9-3 Michigan team lose once again in the Gator Bowl while its fans incessantly yell, "WE'RE A TOP 10 PROGRAM"!!!!

Rinse, lather, repeat. 

As an IU fan, I figured you would have figured out the mirage that 2020 was by now.  Multiple opt outs on both sides of the ball, particularly the defensive side of the ball which accounts for the ONLY year under Harbaugh that they failed to finish in the top 20 in defensive efficiency.  I know you don't like being told Santa Claus isn't real but come on.

Harbaugh's record speaks for itself at both levels and while you may be right that UM has underachieved in the minds of some, they are right back at the typical 9-10 win minimum they were at before Rich Rod and Hoke.  That is part of the reason that you will NEVER hear me bitch about a 10 win regular season.  The two coaches prior to Harbaugh made me grateful for those types of campaigns.

Still waiting on your list of 10 programs that are better.  Stop dodging the question.

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6 minutes ago, temptation said:

As an IU fan, I figured you would have figured out the mirage that 2020 was by now.  Multiple opt outs on both sides of the ball, particularly the defensive side of the ball which accounts for the ONLY year under Harbaugh that they failed to finish in the top 20 in defensive efficiency.  I know you don't like being told Santa Claus isn't real but come on.

Harbaugh's record speaks for itself at both levels and while you may be right that UM has underachieved in the minds of some, they are right back at the typical 9-10 win minimum they were at before Rich Rod and Hoke.  That is part of the reason that you will NEVER hear me bitch about a 10 win regular season.  The two coaches prior to Harbaugh made me grateful for those types of campaigns.

Still waiting on your list of 10 programs that are better.  Stop dodging the question.

Alabama

Clemson

Ohio State

Georgia

Oklahoma

Notre Dame

LSU

Penn State

Wisconsin

Guess I'm back and forth between Florida and Michigan. Michigan better H2H record vs Florida but Florida far better postseason record. And again spare me with your "meaningless bowl games". If beating rivals and winning titles is the only thing that matters then Michigan doesn't sniff this list. 

 

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46 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Alabama

Clemson

Ohio State

Georgia

Oklahoma

Notre Dame

LSU

Penn State

Wisconsin

Guess I'm back and forth between Florida and Michigan. Michigan better H2H record vs Florida but Florida far better postseason record. And again spare me with your "meaningless bowl games". If beating rivals and winning titles is the only thing that matters then Michigan doesn't sniff this list. 

 

Now you are just doubling down.  I will be nice and give you the first 7.  With Penn State and Wisconsin, you are reaching.

Even if you include the losses to both Penn State and Wisconsin in 2020, which I have disputed but will give you in this instance, Michigan is 4-3 against PSU and 3-3 against Wisconsin.  Neither PSU nor Wisconsin has made the playoff and Michigan (61-24) has a better record than Penn State (62-29) and Wisconsin is slightly better at 65-23 with a MUCH easier path, playing in the Big Ten West (you said so yourself in so many words in the other thread).

Furthermore, your Florida "toss up" is laughable as the Gators are 58-31 in that same time span while playing in the SEC East which is akin to the Big Ten West in many ways.  Michigan has a 2-1 record against Florida under Harbaugh (1-1 in those "prestigious" bowl games you speak of where nearly anyone with draft potential opts out).  And as far as rivalry games, it helps when one of your rivals is TENNESSEE, which is a dumpster fire.

Playing devils' advocate, even IF I concede your list above of 9 certainties, you just admitted that Michigan is a top 10 program.

Thanks for playing.

Edited by temptation
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6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Now you are just doubling down.  I will be nice and give you the first 7.  With Penn State and Wisconsin, you are reaching.

Even if you include the losses to both Penn State and Wisconsin in 2020, which I have disputed but will give you in this instance, Michigan is 4-3 against PSU and 3-3 against Wisconsin.  Neither PSU nor Wisconsin has made the playoff and Michigan (61-24) has a better record than Penn State (62-29) and Wisconsin is slightly better at 65-23 with a MUCH easier path, playing in the Big Ten West (you said so yourself in so many words in the other thread).

Furthermore, your Florida "toss up" is laughable as the Gators are 58-31 in that same time span while playing in the SEC East which is akin to the Big Ten West in many ways.  Michigan has a 2-1 record against Florida under Harbaugh (1-1 in those "prestigious" bowl games you speak of where nearly anyone with draft potential opts out).  And as far as rivalry games, it helps when one of your rivals is TENNESSEE, which is a dumpster fire.

Playing devils' advocate, even IF I concede your list above of 9 certainties, you just admitted that Michigan is a top 10 program.

Thanks for playing.

Penn State is 2-0 in NY6 Bowls and has a Rose Bowl appearance.

Wisconsin is 6-1 in Bowl Games with their lone loss in the Rose Bowl.

I know you said bowl games don't matter, but I guess beating your rivals don't either. What's the draw for Michigan? I don't understand?

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5 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Penn State is 2-0 in NY6 Bowls and has a Rose Bowl appearance.

Wisconsin is 6-1 in Bowl Games with their lone loss in the Rose Bowl.

I know you said bowl games don't matter, but I guess beating your rivals don't either. What's the draw for Michigan? I don't understand?

One of those NY6 bowls Penn State won was against MEMPHIS, while Michigan got matched up with Alabama.  

ONE playoff appearance trumps 2 NY6 bowl wins and gimme a break on the Las Vegas Bowl, Pinstripe Bowl, Duke's May Bowl or Holiday Bowl win meaning jack shit.

Penn State's rival is...PITT?  Wisconsin's are IOWA and MINNESOTA?  Come on dude.  Admit defeat.

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