Temp’s Top 25 (9/24)

[temptation]

1. Center Grove
2. Brownsburg
3. Hamilton Southeastern 
4. Cathedral
5. Ben Davis
6. New Palestine
7. Carmel
8. Roncalli 
9. Fishers
10. Westfield 
11. Lawrence Central
12. Warren Central
13. Crown Point
14. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
15. Fort Wayne Snider
16. Penn
17. Elkhart
18. Merrillville
19. East Central
20. Bishop Chatard
21. Fort Wayne North
22. Gibson Southern
23. West Lafayette 
24. Mishawaka
25. Zionsville

[temptation]

Bump

[Justasportsfan]

HSE @3??👀

[temptation]

31 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

HSE @3??👀

Yeah, thought someone might point that one out.

Follow my logic here…

Ben Davis had a let down after a big win over rival Warren and let a mediocre LN team hang around.

Cathedral had a week off before beating up on a middle school, even though they had little choice.

Meanwhile, HSE has played a meat grinder of a schedule thus far and passed all tests.  3-0 against teams in my top 11 and crushed a Zionsville unit that was feeling good about itself.

As someone pointed out a couple of weeks back however I think one could toss teams 1-7 into a blender and make a case for any one of them to beat the other on any given night.

Haven’t been able to say that since inception of 6A.

Edited September 25, 2022 by temptation

[MonkeyButt]

Okay just saying:
HSE 26 Westfield 21

New Palestine 42 Westfield 28

 

[BTF]

I don't have a problem with HSE at #3, they've earned it. The blender in my opinion is 8-18. 

[MonkeyButt]

32 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yeah, thought someone might point that one out.

Follow my logic here…

Ben Davis had a let down after a big win over rival Warren and let a mediocre LN team hang around.

Cathedral had a week off before beating up on a middle school, even though they had little choice.

Meanwhile, HSE has played a meat grinder of a schedule thus far and passed all tests.  3-0 against teams in my top 11 and crushed a Zionsville unit that was feeling good about itself.

As someone pointed out a couple of weeks back however I think one could toss teams 1-7 into a blender and make a case for any one of them to beat the other on any given night.

Haven’t been able to say that since inception of 6A.

LC 3-3

NC 0-6

Avon 0-6

Fishers 4-2

Westfield 3-3

Zionsville 4-2

HSE's opponents are 14-22. Only 2 of the are above .500. Meat grinder? Not so sure about that. If you are going by strength of schedule that can only account for a portion of your formula for your ranking. Sangrin has New Pal 2nd and HSE 4th even though HSE has a higher strength of schedule. Problem about it having a high strength of schedule is that typically all Indy 6A schedules will be stronger than the lower classes. Head to head though New Pal's win over Westfield is better quality. Just saying New Pal should be higher than HSE at the very least.

I agree with this statement though, "As someone pointed out a couple of weeks back however I think one could toss teams 1-7 into a blender and make a case for any one of them to beat the other on any given night."

[temptation]

9 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

Okay just saying:
HSE 26 Westfield 21

New Palestine 42 Westfield 28

 

I’m not sure this is the flex you think it is.  You know how both of those games played out and WHERE they were played.

HSE went INTO Westfield’s house and ended their conference winning streak.

Don’t be so short sighted in looking at margin of victory.

[temptation]

9 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

LC 3-3

NC 0-6

Avon 0-6

Fishers 4-2

Westfield 3-3

Zionsville 4-2

HSE's opponents are 14-22. Only 2 of the are above .500. Meat grinder? Not so sure about that. If you are going by strength of schedule that can only account for a portion of your formula for your ranking. Sangrin has New Pal 2nd and HSE 4th even though HSE has a higher strength of schedule. Problem about it having a high strength of schedule is that typically all Indy 6A schedules will be stronger than the lower classes. Head to head though New Pal's win over Westfield is better quality. Just saying New Pal should be higher than HSE at the very least.

I agree with this statement though, "As someone pointed out a couple of weeks back however I think one could toss teams 1-7 into a blender and make a case for any one of them to beat the other on any given night."

1.  I don’t know what Sangrin is?  Is that wine?  

2.  Once again, looking at record is short sighted.  LC, Fishers and Westfield are top 10 teams in 6A and HSE beat them.  They then crushed Zionsville who was playing its best football and is undoubtedly a 5A state contender.

3.  New Pal has quietly taken care of business and deserves their spot.  They beat Westfield and what has now been shown to be overrated outfits from Decatur Central and Mount Vernon.  Their SOS is inflated based on what the computers “thought” those two teams would be in the preseason.  The Dragons could play with anyone in Indiana which is one hell of an accomplishment for a 4A school.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by temptation

[MonkeyButt]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

1.  I don’t know what Sangrin is?  Is that wine?  

2.  Once again, looking at record is short sighted.  LC, Fishers and Westfield are top 10 teams in 6A and HSE beat them.  They then crushed Zionsville who was playing its best football and is undoubtedly a 5A state contender.

3.  New Pal has quietly taken care of business and deserves their spot.  They beat Westfield and what has now been shown to be overrated outfits from Decatur Central and Mount Vernon.  Their SOS is inflated based on what the computers “thought” those two teams would be in the preseason.  The Dragons could play with anyone in Indiana which is one hell of an accomplishment for a 4A school.

 

Just making my argument. Like I said I agree with the statement 1-7 could be shuffled around at this point. 

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Just making my argument. Like I said I agree with the statement 1-7 could be shuffled around at this point. 

Wish New Pal had another challenging game on the schedule.  Loved their series with CG.

Admittedly, I don’t see them moving up in this poll unless someone in front of them implodes.  Just no one left on the schedule that’s a legitimate litmus test.

Will be interesting to see if teams like Roncalli, Reitz or East Central can remain competitive in a potential tournament contest.

11 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

Just making my argument. Like I said I agree with the statement 1-7 could be shuffled around at this point. 

Edited September 25, 2022 by temptation

[MonkeyButt]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Wish New Pal had another challenging game on the schedule.  Loved their series with CG.

Admittedly, I don’t see them moving up in this poll unless someone in front of them implodes.  Just no one left on the schedule that’s a legitimate litmus test.

Will be interesting to see if teams like Roncalli, Reitz or East Central can remain competitive in a potential tournament contest.

That is the problem with power rankings. Lower classes that compete against ranked teams in classes above them should account for a higher quality win than a general game between two 6A class teams. That is why I am not a fan of power rankings between different classes. But it does make for fun conversation. 🙂

 

[Donnie Baker]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

1.  I don’t know what Sangrin is?  Is that wine?  

2.  Once again, looking at record is short sighted.  LC, Fishers and Westfield are top 10 teams in 6A and HSE beat them.  They then crushed Zionsville who was playing its best football and is undoubtedly a 5A state contender.

3.  New Pal has quietly taken care of business and deserves their spot.  They beat Westfield and what has now been shown to be overrated outfits from Decatur Central and Mount Vernon.  Their SOS is inflated based on what the computers “thought” those two teams would be in the preseason.  The Dragons could play with anyone in Indiana which is one hell of an accomplishment for a 4A school.

 

It’s a cross between Zimas and Bartles and James. I swear to God it is 

[temptation]

49 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

That is the problem with power rankings. Lower classes that compete against ranked teams in classes above them should account for a higher quality win than a general game between two 6A class teams. That is why I am not a fan of power rankings between different classes. But it does make for fun conversation. 🙂

 

It did.  Did you know where I had New Pal ranked preseason?

You can’t diminish HSE’s win over a Westfield team that is 3-3, yet then cite New Pal’s win over them as a major accomplishment in your next breath.

Edited September 25, 2022 by temptation

[MonkeyButt]

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

It did.  Did you know where I had New Pal ranked preseason?

You can’t diminish HSE’s win over a Westfield team that is 3-3, yet then cite New Pal’s win over them as a major accomplishment in your next breath.

It isn't diminishing. The game itself New Pal was dominant the entire game. HSE was not. It is head to head. I do not know where you had NP preseason, but I do know NP was not even ranked in several polls and ranked in the teens on others. So in a power ranking is it required for lower class teams to play 6A teams in order to be found in the top of the list? There are several metrics that are involved in power rankings. Strength of schedule is only a part of it. If you actually don't know what the Sagarin Ratings are then I defer you to this website: http://sagarin.com/sports/hsfsend.htm. I do believe you are messing with me though because I misspelled his name. Regardless, despite New Pal being 4A he has NP #2 over HSE.

If by your logic a 6A schedule will always be stronger than a 5A or below schedule then you should never have a 4A team in the top 10. How do you justify even having New Pal or Roncalli in your top 10? How could a 4A team without playing a 6A schedule be ranked above a 6A team without a head to head match up? This is why I don't rank different classes together. It is always bias to the highest class. This isn't like ranking D1 FBS. In order to make the similar comparison you would have to rank D1 down to NAIA together.

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, MonkeyButt said:

It isn't diminishing. The game itself New Pal was dominant the entire game. HSE was not. It is head to head. I do not know where you had NP preseason, but I do know NP was not even ranked in several polls and ranked in the teens on others. So in a power ranking is it required for lower class teams to play 6A teams in order to be found in the top of the list? There are several metrics that are involved in power rankings. Strength of schedule is only a part of it. If you actually don't know what the Sagarin Ratings are then I defer you to this website: http://sagarin.com/sports/hsfsend.htm. I do believe you are messing with me though because I misspelled his name. Regardless, despite New Pal being 4A he has NP #2 over HSE.

If by your logic a 6A schedule will always be stronger than a 5A or below schedule then you should never have a 4A team in the top 10. How do you justify even having New Pal or Roncalli in your top 10? How could a 4A team without playing a 6A schedule be ranked above a 6A team without a head to head match up? This is why I don't rank different classes together. It is always bias to the highest class. This isn't like ranking D1 FBS. In order to make the similar comparison you would have to rank D1 down to NAIA together.

The coaches/media separate classes and it’s boring to me…especially at the 5A/6A level.  Is being top ten out of 32 schools really an accomplishment?

To me, this is an interesting way to compare teams that will most likely never match up on the same field.  It makes for fun conversation and gives the 1A/4A schools an idea (just one man’s opinion) of where they stand.

Roncalli and New Pal have legitimate D1 kids on their rosters and their results speak for themselves.  They deserve to be recognized as one of the best in Indiana and a 4A poll does them little justice.

This is more of a power ranking based on resume and who I think would win were they to match up at that particular time.

I had New Pal in the 20’s preseason and Westfield on the edge of the top 5 by the way.

I have some 1A-3A schools honorable mention but it will be hard for them to crack the list.

 

Edited September 25, 2022 by temptation

[Ballhawk]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:42 AM, MonkeyButt said:

Just making my argument. Like I said I agree with the statement 1-7 could be shuffled around at this point. 

Why not put out your own Top 25?  Let's see what you think.

[MonkeyButt]

11 minutes ago, Ballhawk said:

Why not put out your own Top 25?  Let's see what you think.

LOL I'd rather critique Temptation's. More fun that way. No but seriously I would if I had more knowledge of the classes below 4A. I really don't. I am most familiar with 6A and have learned a lot about 4A more recently. I also wouldn't do a power ranking between all classes. It is too subjective in my opinion. I think Sagarin does a great job though some of it is debatable, but there has to be a formula for multi-class power rankings and Sagarin's is the best I have seen so far. 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

Why not put out your own Top 25?  Let's see what you think.

He only likes boring class rankings with little controversy where his favorite team is #1.

Edited September 26, 2022 by temptation

[temptation]

2 hours ago, MonkeyButt said:

LOL I'd rather critique Temptation's. More fun that way. No but seriously I would if I had more knowledge of the classes below 4A. I really don't. I am most familiar with 6A and have learned a lot about 4A more recently. I also wouldn't do a power ranking between all classes. It is too subjective in my opinion. I think Sagarin does a great job though some of it is debatable, but there has to be a formula for multi-class power rankings and Sagarin's is the best I have seen so far. 

Sagarin, where Warren Central is 5 spots higher than a team (Lawrence Central) that beat them by double figures...just one example.

(I actually like Jeff's rankings too but let's not sit here and pretend they are flawless.)

[Muda69]

Kokomo Wildkats.

Carroll (Flora) Cougars.

 

 

[temptation]

32 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Kokomo Wildkats.

Carroll (Flora) Cougars.

 

 

Kokomo - HM (#35)

Carroll (Flora) - NR

[BTF]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

He only likes boring class rankings with little controversy where his favorite team is #1.

Boring? What's boring about seeing Homestead ranked ahead of Westfield in the coaches poll? What's boring about Huntington North being ranked 12th in 4a. *That's exciting stuff! 

*But not necessarily reality. 

[Footballking16]

@temptationis HSE your favorite to come out of the North?

[BTF]

11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

@temptationis HSE your favorite to come out of the North?

I'm presuming yes. He has HSE four spots ahead of Carmel in his poll.