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Warsaw vs. Penn


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Unfortunately, I won't be able to travel from Dayton, OH to see this one.  But, it should be a great game.  I just watched Warsaw dismantle a good Carroll team.  Kept the ball for the ENTIRE 3rd quarter and then scored on the first play of the 4th.  I've never see that before.  I don't believe they thew it once all night.  Bart Ball, they call it.

Penn, on the other hand, had no trouble with Elkhart.

What a game it should be!  Game will be at Penn.

Edited by gindie
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22 minutes ago, gindie said:

Unfortunately, I won't be able to travel from Dayton, OH to see this one.  But, it should be a great game.  I just watched Warsaw dismantle a good Carroll team.  Kept the ball for the ENTIRE 3rd quarter and then scored on the first play of the 4th.  I've never see that before.  I don't believe they thew it once all night.  Bart Ball, they call it.

Penn, on the other hand, had no trouble with Elkhart.

What a game it should be!  Game will be at Penn.

Should be a good one, but unlike Carroll, Penn is very familiar with the flexbone and Coach Bart.

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Penn saw a small portion of "Bart Ball" earlier this season when they played Mishawaka. It may not be 100% Bart Ball, but it isn't that far off. Penn beat Mishawaka 28-7 and Mishawaka beat Warsaw 34-11. All teams have improved (ish) over the season.

I'm gonna go Penn 21 Warsaw 20 in this one. 

Edited by ArmyVet80
Grammatical error
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I am not excited for this situation, If the Penn O that came out last night comes out for the Warsaw game....Penn will win this game. But, if they come out flat like they have done in almost half of their games, it will be a long night. 

Crown Point had a heck of a second half, whoever wins our game next week will have their hands full with a CP team that should be ready to prove they are among the states best.

Penn and Warsaw will play at home if CP wins, if LC wins, Penn travels or Warsaw will play at home. 

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Still can't believe Warsaw took out Carroll. Penn's defense seems to be playing better as of late, I think seeing Mishawaka and New Prairie this year should help them against Warsaw . If we get by Warsaw , I think every Penn fan would love a shot at CP for a Semistate berth  especially at home .  

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20 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

Still can't believe Warsaw took out Carroll. Penn's defense seems to be playing better as of late, I think seeing Mishawaka and New Prairie this year should help them against Warsaw . If we get by Warsaw , I think every Penn fan would love a shot at CP for a Semistate berth  especially at home .  

Penn's recent run of shutouts I think are misleading... No offense to the NIC team, not named New Prairie, but they are not good at all. I think Penn's D, has not been tested since game 3 of the season...I cannot speak to the New Prairie game, it was very out of character for them with their lack of production that night. If Penn can fend off an early punch to the face, there is a good chance they win this game. But, the Offense has to show up from snap 1, if they don't Warsaw is too dangerous of a team to f' around with..

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I think if Penn were to lose next Friday it will be the Offense or lack there of . I don't see Warsaw scoring more than 21 points on Penn's defense . Penn's Offense still lacks consistency, they must stay ahead of the chains and limit penalties . And going forward , the lack of a good field goal kicker will surely hurt them as well . 

Edited by GOLDRUSH1985
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Warsaw played arguably their best, complete game of football that I may have ever seen. The defense picked off Carroll's QB on the first play of the game and the offense got an early TD to take an immediate 7-0 lead.

Tigers led 10-3 at halftime.

The FIRST drive of the second-half was 19 PLAYS long and killed the entire 3rd Quarter (officially a 12:04 drive), with Warsaw scoring on the first play of the 4th Quarter to take a 17-3 lead. The Tigers were able to get another interception the next drive, and once they scored to make it 24-3, there just simply wasn't enough time for Carroll to make a serious bid at a comeback. Especially against that clock-killing offense known as "Bart Ball"

9 hours ago, BSUKingsmen said:

And Penn thumped Mishawaka this year.  How'd Warsaw do?

9 hours ago, ArmyVet80 said:

 It may not be 100% Bart Ball, but it isn't that far off. Penn beat Mishawaka 28-7 and Mishawaka beat Warsaw 34-11.

Yes, Penn beat Mishawaka, and Mishawaka beat Warsaw - however - Warsaw's starting quarterback at the beginning of the season was hurt in Week 1 at Michigan City, and he made his return last night. It was obvious how much better the offense looks with him under center. The Tigers went 8-1 this season with a backup quarterback basically. I'm not sure the Mishawaka game would have changed by much (the Cavemen are a great team and were the better team on September 22), but he's a bigger threat to run the ball at the QB position and an overall better athlete.

24 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I think if Penn were to lose next Friday it will be the Offense or lack there of . I don't see Warsaw scoring more than 21 points on Penn's defense . Penn's Offense still lacks consistency, they must stay ahead of the chains and limit penalties . And going forward , the lack of a good field goal kicker will surely hurt them as well . 

The Penn defense is extremely stout, but a unit that I feel like has been overshadowed all year long is the Tiger defense. As previously stated, Warsaw went 8-1 with a backup QB this season, and much of that is due to how well their defense played. Warsaw doesn't win those Chesterton, Concord, NorthWood, Wawasee, and Northridge games without their defense playing as strong as they have all year long.

Should be a good game next Friday night. As previously stated, the last time these two teams played each other in 2019, the Tigers won. It marked their first victory ever over the Kingsmen, and also gave Warsaw their first ever Sectional Championship. To get that second one, this time they'll have to take down Penn on the road. Tall task!

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9 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Warsaw played arguably their best, complete game of football that I may have ever seen. The defense picked off Carroll's QB on the first play of the game and the offense got an early TD to take an immediate 7-0 lead.

Tigers led 10-3 at halftime.

The FIRST drive of the second-half was 19 PLAYS long and killed the entire 3rd Quarter (officially a 12:04 drive), with Warsaw scoring on the first play of the 4th Quarter to take a 17-3 lead. The Tigers were able to get another interception the next drive, and once they scored to make it 24-3, there just simply wasn't enough time for Carroll to make a serious bid at a comeback. Especially against that clock-killing offense known as "Bart Ball"

Yes, Penn beat Mishawaka, and Mishawaka beat Warsaw - however - Warsaw's starting quarterback at the beginning of the season was hurt in Week 1 at Michigan City, and he made his return last night. It was obvious how much better the offense looks with him under center. The Tigers went 8-1 this season with a backup quarterback basically. I'm not sure the Mishawaka game would have changed by much (the Cavemen are a great team and were the better team on September 22), but he's a bigger threat to run the ball at the QB position and an overall better athlete.

The Penn defense is extremely stout, but a unit that I feel like has been overshadowed all year long is the Tiger defense. As previously stated, Warsaw went 8-1 with a backup QB this season, and much of that is due to how well their defense played. Warsaw doesn't win those Chesterton, Concord, NorthWood, Wawasee, and Northridge games without their defense playing as strong as they have all year long.

Should be a good game next Friday night. As previously stated, the last time these two teams played each other in 2019, the Tigers won. It marked their first victory ever over the Kingsmen, and also gave Warsaw their first ever Sectional Championship. To get that second one, this time they'll have to take down Penn on the road. Tall task!

Is Warsaw's defense consistent enough to put together back to back games like the game vs Carroll? 

Is the starting QB a more effective passer than the backup? Or, is it he is just so much more of a threat on the ground than the backup?

Edited by BLACKGOLD2007
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45 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I think if Penn were to lose next Friday it will be the Offense or lack there of . I don't see Warsaw scoring more than 21 points on Penn's defense . Penn's Offense still lacks consistency, they must stay ahead of the chains and limit penalties . And going forward , the lack of a good field goal kicker will surely hurt them as well . 

That is what scares me... Games in which the Penn offense looked bad or struggled in:

Cathedral

Elkhart (Game 1)

St. Joe

New Prairie

The offense at times struggled in the Morton game and the Marian game. 

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2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Is the starting QB a more effective passer than the backup? Or, is it he is just so much more of a threat on the ground than the backup?

Don't know.  They never passed last night!

AND, they converted at least 5 4th downs, some between 5-10 yards.

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31 minutes ago, gindie said:

Don't know.  They never passed last night!

AND, they converted at least 5 4th downs, some between 5-10 yards.

Warsaw would be a very dangerous team if they abandoned the punt all together. 

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

Warsaw would be a very dangerous team if they abandoned the punt all together. 

Well, almost ten or so years ago, Washington found a loop hole in the rule that a missed field goal from any location on the field the ball is spotted at the opposing teams 20yd line....Now, Washington had a kicker with a heck of a leg, but I don't know why or if teams put a returner back to field the field goal attempt. But, they would line up for field goals on their own 40....so, if you cannot punt just try a field goal lol. 

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6 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Yes, Penn beat Mishawaka, and Mishawaka beat Warsaw - however - Warsaw's starting quarterback at the beginning of the season was hurt in Week 1 at Michigan City, and he made his return last night. It was obvious how much better the offense looks with him under center. The Tigers went 8-1 this season with a backup quarterback basically. I'm not sure the Mishawaka game would have changed by much (the Cavemen are a great team and were the better team on September 22), but he's a bigger threat to run the ball at the QB position and an overall better athlete.

 

Would you say that the Warsaw QB is better than or equal to Mishawaka's QB? Penn bottled up Mishawaka's QB which is impressive any way you look at it. 

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On 10/28/2023 at 9:56 AM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Is Warsaw's defense consistent enough to put together back to back games like the game vs Carroll? 

Is the starting QB a more effective passer than the backup? Or, is it he is just so much more of a threat on the ground than the backup?

On 10/28/2023 at 4:35 PM, ArmyVet80 said:

Would you say that the Warsaw QB is better than or equal to Mishawaka's QB? Penn bottled up Mishawaka's QB which is impressive any way you look at it. 

17 hours ago, BSUKingsmen said:

Mishawaka's fullback did all the damage.  Kid is a workhorse. Came away really impressed with him.

Since these are all along the same questions/conversation - yes, I would say Sullivan is just a more around better athlete, which is key to being the QB in "Bart Ball". I forgot he actually did play in the Northridge game as well. The QB all season before that (Brock) did a good enough job for the Tigers to win games, but I can't say they won games BECAUSE of him. Through basically 7 games worth of action, he only had 277 yards rushing. Meanwhile, on Sullivan had 18 carries for 80 yards before 3 final kneel downs against Carroll.

I would say Sullivan is, athletically, on the same level as Fisher at Mishawaka. But Fisher has a lot more experience, and that is what makes him so dangerous. He's a stud.

Same as Mishawaka, the Tigers offense runs through their fullback. He's had 241 carries for 1,436 yards and 16 TDs through the regular season and added 34 carries for 168 yards and 2 TDs on Friday night. He's not necssarily the biggest or the fastest, but he runs HARD and

On 10/28/2023 at 9:56 AM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Is Warsaw's defense consistent enough to put together back to back games like the game vs Carroll? 

I would say absolutely yes. They've been consistent all year long. They held NorthWood (who averages 39 ppg) to their lowest total all year and as previously stated are the main reason they went 8-1 this regular season. You don't win games 8-6, 10-3, and 22-15 if you aren't consistent on that side of the ball. The Mishawaka loss was more so on the Tiger offense stalling out and not making plays and putting all the pressure on the Warsaw defense. Carroll came into the game averaging like 150 yards rushing on offense, and Warsaw held them to less than 50 yards.

It wouldn't suprise me to see the game this Friday end up being something like 14-13 the way both defenses play.

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1 hour ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I would say absolutely yes. They've been consistent all year long. They held NorthWood (who averages 39 ppg) to their lowest total all year and as previously stated are the main reason they went 8-1 this regular season. You don't win games 8-6, 10-3, and 22-15 if you aren't consistent on that side of the ball. The Mishawaka loss was more so on the Tiger offense stalling out and not making plays and putting all the pressure on the Warsaw defense. Carroll came into the game averaging like 150 yards rushing on offense, and Warsaw held them to less than 50 yards.

It wouldn't suprise me to see the game this Friday end up being something like 14-13 the way both defenses play.

So, I hate playing Bart led teams because the option is so difficult to slow down. I know there is limited snaps with the actual starter, has fumbling been an issue this year?

I think Warsaw smacks Penn in the mouth early Friday night. The D, like the Mishawaka game will tighten up. But, if Penn cannot lift the top off the Warsaw D, it is going to be a long night at Freed Field. 

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1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

So, I hate playing Bart led teams because the option is so difficult to slow down. I know there is limited snaps with the actual starter, has fumbling been an issue this year?

I think Warsaw smacks Penn in the mouth early Friday night. The D, like the Mishawaka game will tighten up. But, if Penn cannot lift the top off the Warsaw D, it is going to be a long night at Freed Field. 

Fumbling definitely caused issues in a few games, yes, but has been cleaned up quite a bit over the last 3 games (Goshen, Northridge, and Carroll).

What style is Penn's offense? More pass? More rush? Balanced? I ask because you say "if Penn cannot lift the top off the Warsaw D" are you implying they throw the ball more? Or that, in order for them to run the ball like they want, they'll need to hit a few big passing plays to allow that to happen?

The two biggest offensive threats Warsaw faced all year (NorthWood and Carroll) - I cannot say enough positive things about how the defense containted them. The Tigers also held Concord and Northridge to their lowest point totals all season.

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Interesting thread and read about Warsaw's offense.  Not sure how many large schools down here are run-heavy, but there's a fair amount of small schools that like the option/wishbone/flexbone-style of offense.  There's a team about an hour away from me that typically will use up the entire 40-second clock every play, in addition to running the ball 98% of the time.  They played a team earlier this season that scores practically at will (one of your perennial powerhouses) and they held that team to 21 points.  They still lost, 21-0, but considered holding that particular team to 21 a moral win.

No offense (pun intended) to anyone, to each his own, but I find that style of play very boring.  Playing keep away is fine if you got the D to stop the other team, which it appears Warsaw has so far, so props to them.  I remember several games when my kids were in school, where we could shut down that 3 yards and a cloud of dust scheme, next thing they know it's the middle of the 2nd quarter and that running team is down by 3-4 scores.  Hard to catch up at that point.

Good on Warsaw for being competitive with that style of O.  I just think at some point they will run into a team that can stop it, then that slow clock-eating offense works against you.

JMO, don't flame me too bad for it.

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On 10/28/2023 at 2:39 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Well, almost ten or so years ago, Washington found a loop hole in the rule that a missed field goal from any location on the field the ball is spotted at the opposing teams 20yd line....Now, Washington had a kicker with a heck of a leg, but I don't know why or if teams put a returner back to field the field goal attempt. But, they would line up for field goals on their own 40....so, if you cannot punt just try a field goal lol. 

This isn't a "loop hole", its called a scrimmage kick. But the part in bold above is wrong....

The rules that govern a punt are almost identical to the rules that govern a FG....they are "scrimmage kicks".  If a scrimmage kick goes into the EZ in high school football, it is a touchback.  If it doesn't...it can be returned, just like a punt.  But it's not a touchback becausae its a missed field goal...it HAS to cross the GL, just like a punt.

Ironically...(given this thread topic) I beleive the longest play in Goshen High School football history is a 99 yard FG return for TD by future Boiler Todd Stelma.....against who??.... the Warsaw Tigers.

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1 hour ago, Bonecrusher said:

No offense (pun intended) to anyone, to each his own, but I find that style of play very boring. Playing keep away is fine if you got the D to stop the other team, which it appears Warsaw has so far, so props to them.  I remember several games when my kids were in school, where we could shut down that 3 yards and a cloud of dust scheme, next thing they know it's the middle of the 2nd quarter and that running team is down by 3-4 scores.  Hard to catch up at that point.

Good on Warsaw for being competitive with that style of O.  I just think at some point they will run into a team that can stop it, then that slow clock-eating offense works against you.

JMO, don't flame me too bad for it.

Definitely not flaming you - and I had the same thoughts myself - but I have grown to really enjoy it. It's an offense that truly all 11 players have to do their job in order for it to be effective. And the proof is in the pudding on the success Warsaw has had running it. In the 6 seasons under Coach Curtis, they have gone 48-16, won 2 conference championships (last NLC championship before that was back in 2001), their first ever sectional championship (2019) and playing in their 5th straight sectional championship game this Friday. They have averaged 30 PPG on offense over that time, and had 20 games of 40+ points scored.

It might seep boring initially, but I feel like it can grow on any fanbase. Especially when you watch it ran to perfection like it was Friday night against Carroll. It's the great equalizer in my opinion. Yes, if you get down fast and early, it makes it tricky to get back in the ball game, and has happened a handful of times for the Tigers. But the pros outweight the cons from my observation.

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