temptation Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: I don't thing how high he gets drafted will mean anything. Some examples Robert Mathis was a 5th Rd 138th pick from Alabama A&M, Tom Brady 6th Round 199th pick. If Kiser doesn’t get drafted in the first round he should have to give his award back. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 36 minutes ago, scarab527 said: When did the rule that you had to win your position Mr. Football to be considered for overall Mr. Football start? DeSommer didn't win QB Mr. Football in 2013 but still finished 3rd in overall Mr. Football voting not sure exactly, I know we have been going on the current system for about 3 or 4 years now with all IFCA members getting a vote 9 minutes ago, temptation said: If Kiser doesn’t get drafted in the first round he should have to give his award back. you forgot your sarcasm font Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said: I believe that is how Daniel Wodika won at West Lafayette, dude was UNREAL, then he put on a show at 3a State Finals for WL and boom, Mr. Football Ugh. Thanks for that reminder. Wodicka was a dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 Bowen and Kiser played both ways and everyone saw them play both sides of ball in multiple state finals. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 11 hours ago, FastpacedO said: Danny O'Neil and Tyler Cherry had great years at QB against tough competition. Had either one of them made it to the State Championship game I think they would have been in the fight for Mr. Football (as would have Sherrell from Brownsburg at RB). ??? Tyler Cherry led CG to a state championship his junior year and had a great game against BD in the semi-state as a senior. Not many teams put 30+ points on the Giants this year. Russ Yeast lost the award to a QB that never made it out of a sectional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 11 hours ago, Bash Riprock said: ??? Tyler Cherry led CG to a state championship his junior year and had a great game against BD in the semi-state as a senior. Not many teams put 30+ points on the Giants this year. Russ Yeast lost the award to a QB that never made it out of a sectional. I am not sure why you have a problem with my statement. What Tyler Cherry or Danny O'Neil did in their Jr year is irrelevant for a Senior award. Both of them had terrific games against Ben Davis in Regional and Semi-State however ended up losing. I am not saying anything "bad" about either one. I am stating they would have had a better argument for Mr. Football. Since they did not and Josh Ringer did make it to the State Championship and performed at a high level in the State Championship it will likely go to Ringer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: I am not sure why you have a problem with my statement. What Tyler Cherry or Danny O'Neil did in their Jr year is irrelevant for a Senior award. Both of them had terrific games against Ben Davis in Regional and Semi-State however ended up losing. I am not saying anything "bad" about either one. I am stating they would have had a better argument for Mr. Football. Since they did not and Josh Ringer did make it to the State Championship and performed at a high level in the State Championship it will likely go to Ringer. Just correcting your error when you stated Cherry didn’t win a state Championship. He led his team to one last year. Additionally, winning a state title has never been a prerequisite to earning Mr. Football. I simply provided you an example of a past winner in which his team never made it out of a sectional. If winning a state title is now an expectation, the award is limited to 6 teams. I never claimed you stated anything negative about anyone. Just don’t align with your criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: Just correcting your error when you stated Cherry didn’t win a state Championship. Additionally, winning a state title has never been a prerequisite to earning Mr. Football. I simply provided you an example of a past winner in which his team never made it out of a sectional. If winning a state title is now an expectation, the award is limited to 6 teams. I never claimed you stated anything negative about anyone. Just don’t align with your criteria. Just for clarification I never stated Cherry or O'Neil haven't won State Championships because both of them have (Cherry 2022 and O'Neil 2021). I was stating had they made it to the State Championship this year. The reason I state that is because I feel both would have had terrific games in the passing game against Crown Point (similar to the big game Ringer had in State Championship), thus bolstering their argument for Mr. Football. It is not so much "winning" a State Championship as it is getting to a State Championship having a good game and statistics to impress the voters. Some of them tend to forget certain players when they don't get to see them in that final game, and I am not saying that is right or just either. Like it or not that is how it tends to go, I never can predict how the voters think when voting. There have been 13 of the 30 Mr. Football winners that have not won a State Championship. I too felt Yeast should have won his Senior year, but I don't have a vote in it. I feel like the reason the player won it in 2016 was because he was committed to Clemson, but that has just been my opinion. Mr. Football winners who did not win a State Title: 1992 Alex Smith RB Franklin County (lost sectional championship to East Central, broke career rushing record), 1995 Earl Haniford QB Martinsville (lost in Regional career passing record), 1996 Isreal Thompson RB Martinsville (lost in Semi-State), 1999 Derrick Ellis RB Arlington (lost in Regional), 2000 Otis Shannon RB Cathedral (lost in Sectional 2nd Round Career and Season rushing record as well as single game), 2002 Clayton Richard QB McCutcheon (lost in Sectional Champioship career passing record), 2008 Morgan Newton QB Carmel (lost in thrilling State Championship game vs CG), 2010 Tre Roberson QB Lawrence Central (lost in State Championship game), 2011 Gunner Kiel QB Columbus East (lost in Semi State), 2014 Markell Jones RB Columbus East (lost in Semi-State single season and career rushing record), 2015 Brandon Peters QB Avon (lost in thrilling Semi-State to CG), 2016 Hunter Johnson QB Brownsburg (lost in Sectional Semi-Final), 2022 Drayk Bowen LB Andrean (lost State Championship game). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: Just for clarification I never stated Cherry or O'Neil haven't won State Championships because both of them have (Cherry 2022 and O'Neil 2021). I was stating had they made it to the State Championship this year. The reason I state that is because I feel both would have had terrific games in the passing game against Crown Point (similar to the big game Ringer had in State Championship), thus bolstering their argument for Mr. Football. It is not so much "winning" a State Championship as it is getting to a State Championship having a good game and statistics to impress the voters. Some of them tend to forget certain players when they don't get to see them in that final game, and I am not saying that is right or just either. Like it or not that is how it tends to go, I never can predict how the voters think when voting. There have been 13 of the 30 Mr. Football winners that have not won a State Championship. I too felt Yeast should have won his Senior year, but I don't have a vote in it. I feel like the reason the player won it in 2016 was because he was committed to Clemson, but that has just been my opinion. Mr. Football winners who did not win a State Title: 1992 Alex Smith RB Franklin County (lost sectional championship to East Central, broke career rushing record), 1995 Earl Haniford QB Martinsville (lost in Regional career passing record), 1996 Isreal Thompson RB Martinsville (lost in Semi-State), 1999 Derrick Ellis RB Arlington (lost in Regional), 2000 Otis Shannon RB Cathedral (lost in Sectional 2nd Round Career and Season rushing record as well as single game), 2002 Clayton Richard QB McCutcheon (lost in Sectional Champioship career passing record), 2008 Morgan Newton QB Carmel (lost in thrilling State Championship game vs CG), 2010 Tre Roberson QB Lawrence Central (lost in State Championship game), 2011 Gunner Kiel QB Columbus East (lost in Semi State), 2014 Markell Jones RB Columbus East (lost in Semi-State single season and career rushing record), 2015 Brandon Peters QB Avon (lost in thrilling Semi-State to CG), 2016 Hunter Johnson QB Brownsburg (lost in Sectional Semi-Final), 2022 Drayk Bowen LB Andrean (lost State Championship game). You original post did not indicate state championship in 2023. (see below) That is what confused me. While I agree the award is "supposed" to focus on only their senior year, I think it human nature for voters to look at a larger body of work. I believe in the Yeast case, it haunted him that he only had one year of playing high school football in the state. I believe that was a major factor in why the Indiana Gatorade HS football player of the year didn't win Mr. Football. I am not saying anyone is undeserving in 2023....actually, I've never stated that about anyone winning the award period. I just don't believe winning the state title should be considered as a key criteria. A plus...I guess...but we all know it takes more than one person to win a state football championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKGOLD2007 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, FastpacedO said: I am not sure why you have a problem with my statement. What Tyler Cherry or Danny O'Neil did in their Jr year is irrelevant for a Senior award. Both of them had terrific games against Ben Davis in Regional and Semi-State however ended up losing. I am not saying anything "bad" about either one. I am stating they would have had a better argument for Mr. Football. Since they did not and Josh Ringer did make it to the State Championship and performed at a high level in the State Championship it will likely go to Ringer. This is similar to the Colt McCoy argument for Heisman, they guy was the most winningest QB at the time, had a solid senior year, but people were arguing from a career standpoint for him as the Heisman winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKGOLD2007 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said: You original post did not indicate state championship in 2023. (see below) That is what confused me. While I agree the award is "supposed" to focus on only their senior year, I think it human nature for voters to look at a larger body of work. I believe in the Yeast case, it haunted him that he only had one year of playing high school football in the state. I believe that was a major factor in why the Indiana Gatorade HS football player of the year didn't win Mr. Football. I agree with you that it is natural to want to look at a player of O'Neil and Cherry's caliber, and want to include their body of work into the conversation. They are deserving of great Honors...It just boils down to Ringer went off this year.. It is almost undeniable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 18 hours ago, Whiting89 said: Ok let’s see how high he gets drafted I’m just saying karalfitis and bell are better I never he said he was a bad player I've said this before, and David Bell was AWESOME, but you could seriously make a case that Romeir Elliott was the best player on that Warren team. At least the most impactful. He rushed for ~3100 yards, 38 TD's and had another 200 receiving yards and 3 TDs. You won't find many 6A backs who play on an undefeated state championship team with those kind of stats who didn't win Mr. Football. I'm not even sure he was considered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 Did Elliott play all 4 years at Southern Illinois ?? Guy was legit for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 43 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: I've said this before, and David Bell was AWESOME, but you could seriously make a case that Romeir Elliott was the best player on that Warren team. At least the most impactful. He rushed for ~3100 yards, 38 TD's and had another 200 receiving yards and 3 TDs. You won't find many 6A backs who play on an undefeated state championship team with those kind of stats who didn't win Mr. Football. I'm not even sure he was considered. Yep. Agree completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 34 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: Did Elliott play all 4 years at Southern Illinois ?? Guy was legit for sure He played this year as a 5th year and may have a 6th year available still with all the COVID madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said: I agree with you that it is natural to want to look at a player of O'Neil and Cherry's caliber, and want to include their body of work into the conversation. They are deserving of great Honors...It just boils down to Ringer went off this year.. It is almost undeniable. Sorry if its already been covered but how many 4th quarter touches did Ringer get this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: I've said this before, and David Bell was AWESOME, but you could seriously make a case that Romeir Elliott was the best player on that Warren team. At least the most impactful. He rushed for ~3100 yards, 38 TD's and had another 200 receiving yards and 3 TDs. You won't find many 6A backs who play on an undefeated state championship team with those kind of stats who didn't win Mr. Football. I'm not even sure he was considered. agree completely. I thought he pulled some votes....guessing he and Bell took some away from each other. His Southern Illinois profile below. He went there over Western Michigan and Ball State. https://siusalukis.com/sports/football/roster/ro-elliott/7875 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKGOLD2007 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 42 minutes ago, temptation said: Sorry if its already been covered but how many 4th quarter touches did Ringer get this season? If the kid scored 60 touchdowns this year...probably not many. Should a young man be punished because his conference is weak. He did his job. Burton won Mr. Basketball by scoring 30ish points per game...and the NIC is not the top basketball conference in the state. Sometimes, players can supersede the uncontrollable limitations around them and perform to a level that is again undeniable. If this young man was on CG and put up 30 touchdowns...we would still be talking Mr. Football. I think he has surpassed those type of limitations so much so, that he is for sure a strong candidate for the award, he may not win it, but he is in the conversation that is for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said: If the kid scored 60 touchdowns this year...probably not many. Should a young man be punished because his conference is weak. He did his job. Burton won Mr. Basketball by scoring 30ish points per game...and the NIC is not the top basketball conference in the state. Sometimes, players can supersede the uncontrollable limitations around them and perform to a level that is again undeniable. If this young man was on CG and put up 30 touchdowns...we would still be talking Mr. Football. I think he has surpassed those type of limitations so much so, that he is for sure a strong candidate for the award, he may not win it, but he is in the conversation that is for sure. I'm not insinuating anything. Just curious as East Central had a 43 point average margin of victory this year. I'd assume the kid could have put up even more yards and TD's if they were involved in close contests in the second half. I've already stated he is my winner and it should be a slam dunk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First_Backer_Inside Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 20 hours ago, FastpacedO said: I don't thing how high he gets drafted will mean anything. Some examples Robert Mathis was a 5th Rd 138th pick from Alabama A&M, Tom Brady 6th Round 199th pick. I don't know that he gets drafted. Definitely will have teams interested in him. Just not sure they will use a draft pick on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKGOLD2007 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 49 minutes ago, temptation said: I'm not insinuating anything. Just curious as East Central had a 43 point average margin of victory this year. I'd assume the kid could have put up even more yards and TD's if they were involved in close contests in the second half. I've already stated he is my winner and it should be a slam dunk. Their closest game was Moeller...If there was any fight put up against them, he would have probably added a few more scores. As Joel Klatt says you need to have an out pitch....Ringer was that for EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said: If the kid scored 60 touchdowns this year...probably not many. Should a young man be punished because his conference is weak. He did his job. Burton won Mr. Basketball by scoring 30ish points per game...and the NIC is not the top basketball conference in the state. Sometimes, players can supersede the uncontrollable limitations around them and perform to a level that is again undeniable. If this young man was on CG and put up 30 touchdowns...we would still be talking Mr. Football. I think he has surpassed those type of limitations so much so, that he is for sure a strong candidate for the award, he may not win it, but he is in the conversation that is for sure. Perhaps.....but the weekly competition might have also taken its toll. Hard to predict. But he does seem like a talented young man. I think sometimes being from a big school and a top program at the 6A level doesn't always help. I think some prefer the awards go elsewhere......Also being from the same area can also hurt....candidates can cancel each other out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 On 11/29/2023 at 6:48 AM, StinkTownClown said: Stinky, Stink, Stink 1.2..3... Always great to hear from the Stink!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan12 Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 3 hours ago, temptation said: Sorry if its already been covered but how many 4th quarter touches did Ringer get this season? I believe it was Moeller, Martinsville, Northwood. Most games the coaching staff gave the starters 1 series into the 3rd then pulled them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Trojan12 said: I believe it was Moeller, Martinsville, Northwood. Most games the coaching staff gave the starters 1 series into the 3rd then pulled them. Damn. Kid could have had 75-80 touchdowns… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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