Snider 2023

[Komets2727]

Since this is a Snider Panther thread, just want to throw something out there for discussion. Is the SAC a good conference for all the schools, speaking of just football. We have a wide disparity in classes from 2A to 6A, which is a big gap. Makes for a lot of non-competitive games in the conference . Snider has no business playing South Side, Concordia, Northrop, and Wayne in any year. Play Carroll, Homestead, Luers, Dwenger, and North Side and find 4 other teams to play. I really believe the gap is as big as I have seen it this year in the SAC. Snider and Carroll are far and away better than the rest of the teams  and it makes for very boring football to watch. I think it is laughable when people say that one time 10 years ago Concordia beat Snider, blah, blah, blah. What about he last 30 games between the 2 teams, how competitive was it? Or South Side and Wayne? Don’t even get me started with Northrop. Same with Carroll, nobody in our conference, other than Snider, will be competitive with them. 78-6 vs. South Side, and I’m sure it could have been worse 

[Komets2727]

3 minutes ago, Justasportsfan said:

These schools have been competitive before..iron sharpens iron? Ac beat Blackhawk tonight by a rather large margin yet they may keep them on the schedule moving forward..dare I say super conferences are coming to the high school ranks? Football only..ac n new haven..heritage and warsaw? 

At what time do you see South Side beating Carroll going forward? The margin will be at least 50 points every year unless Carroll calls off the dogs. Same with Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne. It is the same situation for Snider playing those teams. Nothing is learned or gained in those games, for either team

[Mebuck]

7 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Since this is a Snider Panther thread, just want to throw something out there for discussion. Is the SAC a good conference for all the schools, speaking of just football. We have a wide disparity in classes from 2A to 6A, which is a big gap. Makes for a lot of non-competitive games in the conference . Snider has no business playing South Side, Concordia, Northrop, and Wayne in any year. Play Carroll, Homestead, Luers, Dwenger, and North Side and find 4 other teams to play. I really believe the gap is as big as I have seen it this year in the SAC. Snider and Carroll are far and away better than the rest of the teams  and it makes for very boring football to watch. I think it is laughable when people say that one time 10 years ago Concordia beat Snider, blah, blah, blah. What about he last 30 games between the 2 teams, how competitive was it? Or South Side and Wayne? Don’t even get me started with Northrop. Same with Carroll, nobody in our conference, other than Snider, will be competitive with them. 78-6 vs. South Side, and I’m sure it could have been worse 

I would agree 100%. I was going to say the same thing.

You beat me to it. Splitting the SAC into two division is not going to work either. I mean small school and big school is a joke. They need to make two new conferences. 

Imagine Snider playing Warsaw instead of Concordia or playing Mishawaka or Penn instead of South or Wayne.

Maybe Snider should go independent like Cathedral and play select teams including local big schools.

There has to be a solution.

Snider, Dwenger,  Carroll Homestead, Luers and North should form a conferences. That gives 4 out of conference games.. 

Dwenger won ugly last night.

Came from 12 down. Showed me they do have some fight.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Mebuck

[Justasportsfan]

7 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

At what time do you see South Side beating Carroll going forward? The margin will be at least 50 points every year unless Carroll calls off the dogs. Same with Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne. It is the same situation for Snider playing those teams. Nothing is learned or gained in those games, for either team

Id say 4 or 5 years..not beating them yet remaining competitive...most conferences will have a few schools winning a couple games in a season just due to sos..n some of those may be lopsided losses..i'm glad luers was competitive or else we'd be saying they should leave as well..Northrop used to garner a few wins..saying the sac should drop 5a n 4a programs due to lack of competition is opposite of us giving kudos to other programs for "beefing" up their schedule when they play someone who well all think will shellac them. 

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, Justasportsfan said:

Id say 4 or 5 years..not beating them yet remaining competitive...most conferences will have a few schools winning a couple games in a season just due to sos..n some of those may be lopsided losses..i'm glad luers was competitive or else we'd be saying they should leave as well..Northrop used to garner a few wins..saying the sac should drop 5a n 4a programs due to lack of competition is opposite of us giving kudos to other programs for "beefing" up their schedule when they play someone who well all think will shellac them. 

Love the contrary opinion, here are some stats over the last 10 years:

Snider vs South Side

42-0, forfeit, 14-7, 42-0, 55-0, 55-12, 33-12, 48-6, 49-0, 38-6, outscored 376-43

Snider vs Northrop

48-0, 42-12, 44-0, 48-21, 48-21, 49-35, 54-3, 60-33, 37-0, 35-28, outscored 465-153

Snider vs Concordia 

42-0, 45-13, 27-0, 38-14, 37-7, 24-7, 41-21, 55-24, 48-25, 14-13, outscored 371-124

30-0 vs those 3 teams the last 10 years, going back further than 10 years bears pretty much the same results 

[Justasportsfan]

36 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Love the contrary opinion, here are some stats over the last 10 years:

Snider vs South Side

42-0, forfeit, 14-7, 42-0, 55-0, 55-12, 33-12, 48-6, 49-0, 38-6, outscored 376-43

Snider vs Northrop

48-0, 42-12, 44-0, 48-21, 48-21, 49-35, 54-3, 60-33, 37-0, 35-28, outscored 465-153

Snider vs Concordia 

42-0, 45-13, 27-0, 38-14, 37-7, 24-7, 41-21, 55-24, 48-25, 14-13, outscored 371-124

30-0 vs those 3 teams the last 10 years, going back further than 10 years bears pretty much the same results 

I get what your saying..Belmont has lost 15 str8 games n do not appear to have a clear cut winnable game yet they will remain in their conference...those schools you listed have the resources..North side went from winning couple games to being a contender..middle of the pack n bottom teams usually are cyclical..I'm all about expanding the conference if needed..being fwcs oriented though I don't see them totally disbanding anytime soon.

[Komets2727]

6 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

I get what your saying..Belmont has lost 15 str8 games n do not appear to have a clear cut winnable game yet they will remain in their conference...those schools you listed have the resources..North side went from winning couple games to being a contender..middle of the pack n bottom teams usually are cyclical..I'm all about expanding the conference if needed..being fwcs oriented though I don't see them totally disbanding anytime soon.

Oh I agree, it won’t happen as the precedent was set a long time ago within FWCS when Snider was being donated a football stadium and FWCS wouldn’t allow it. Nobody will be able to convince me that Snider vs. South Side, Concordia, or Northrop does either team any good. Stats don’t lie

Edited September 2, 2023 by Komets2727

[BTF]

5 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Oh I agree, it won’t happen as the precedent was set a long time ago within FWCS when Snider was being donated a football stadium and FWCS wouldn’t allow it. Nobody will be able to convince me that Snider vs. South Side, Concordia, or Northrop does either team any good. Stats don’t lie

The football stadium was defeated by the neighborhoods surrounding the proposed site, not FWCS. Maybe you're referring to the the turf field that was going to be donated to Spuller Stadium about 5 years ago? I believe FWCS said "we're not doing for one if we're not doing for all." At the end of the day, FWCS should worship the ground Snider plays on due to the amount of gate revenue they bring in.

 

[BTF]

14 hours ago, Mebuck said:

Maybe Snider should go independent like Cathedral and play select teams including local big schools.

Snider, Dwenger,  Carroll Homestead, Luers and North should form a conferences. That gives 4 out of conference games.. 

Snider will never go independent. They like the "ease of scheduling" that comes with being affiliated with a conference.

I think we have to give credit to the SAC for splitting into two divisions, it was a step in the right direction. Some programs just need to step up to the plate. Maybe FWCS should offer better pay to the head football coaching position. Bring in the right guy and it will pay dividends at the gate. The hire will pay for itself. Seriously, should a tennis coach get paid the same as a football coach? Absolutely not, a good football coach is capable of bringing in a ton of extra revenue. 

[Komets2727]

19 minutes ago, BTF said:

The football stadium was defeated by the neighborhoods surrounding the proposed site, not FWCS. Maybe you're referring to the the turf field that was going to be donated to Spuller Stadium about 5 years ago? I believe FWCS said "we're not doing for one if we're not doing for all." At the end of the day, FWCS should worship the ground Snider plays on due to the amount of gate revenue they bring in.

 

I was referring to a certain Hall of Famer who was going to pay for everything to get Snider its own football field when the FWCS shot it down. No expense to taxpayers, but since everyone else wasn’t going to get the same thing, no was the answer. Never mind that every other FWCS has a legitimate football field yet Snider can’t get one. Also, we all know which school brings money into the FWCS coffers yet gets nothing for doing so.

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Snider will never go independent. They like the "ease of scheduling" that comes with being affiliated with a conference.

I think we have to give credit to the SAC for splitting into two divisions, it was a step in the right direction. Some programs just need to step up to the plate. Maybe FWCS should offer better pay to the head football coaching position. Bring in the right guy and it will pay dividends at the gate. The hire will pay for itself. Seriously, should a tennis coach get paid the same as a football coach? Absolutely not, a good football coach is capable of bringing in a ton of extra revenue. 

I call hogwash on this. There isn’t a coach alive that can get South Side to even a respectable level. Pretty much, same from Northrop. 

[psaboy]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I call hogwash on this. There isn’t a coach alive that can get South Side to even a respectable level. Pretty much, same from Northrop. 

I think a head coach would have some affect on that situation. But would think his success would be also developing the middle schools that feed into respected high school and the youth programs that feed on to those middle schools. The open enrollment situation now plays a bigger role into this, takes away from trying to develop from the ground up though. I would think Snider has a good ground level base, whereas someothers don't??

[BTF]

10 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I call hogwash on this. There isn’t a coach alive that can get South Side to even a respectable level. Pretty much, same from Northrop. 

2005: Matt Land led South Side to an 11-3 record and was a field goal away from playing for a state title. 

2009: Mike Cheviron led South Side to an 8-2 season and recorded a victory over Snider that year. 

Both good coaches. It happened before, it could happen again. I'm not discrediting your opinion on Snider dropping South Side, not one bit. I'm just saying there are resources at South Side and a good team can be put together under the right circumstances. 

[Komets2727]

59 minutes ago, BTF said:

2005: Matt Land led South Side to an 11-3 record and was a field goal away from playing for a state title. 

2009: Mike Cheviron led South Side to an 8-2 season and recorded a victory over Snider that year. 

Both good coaches. It happened before, it could happen again. I'm not discrediting your opinion on Snider dropping South Side, not one bit. I'm just saying there are resources at South Side and a good team can be put together under the right circumstances. 

The landscape has changed since the mid 2000’s. Open enrollment was not around and there isn’t a single football player going to South Side or Northrop that is wanted by Snider or North Side, even Dwenger or Luers. 
 

Look, I would love to see the underdog story unfold for one of these teams. Two of my kids went to Northrop so it gives me no pleasure in saying how pathetic the Bruin football program is. I could do some research on this, but I think Northrop has beaten Snider 2 times in 40 years, think the last time was around 2000. 

 

[Justasportsfan]

7 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

The landscape has changed since the mid 2000’s. Open enrollment was not around and there isn’t a single football player going to South Side or Northrop that is wanted by Snider or North Side, even Dwenger or Luers. 
 

Look, I would love to see the underdog story unfold for one of these teams. Two of my kids went to Northrop so it gives me no pleasure in saying how pathetic the Bruin football program is. I could do some research on this, but I think Northrop has beaten Snider 2 times in 40 years, think the last time was around 2000. 

 

03 i think..as far as players go..the other programs are stronger in track n basketball..snider usually has football..those other schools have talent walking the hallways n big fellas up front have to be where they start..idk whats so hard about recruiting ur kids in the hallways..if ur an athlete sni high will seek u out..not saying other schools need coaching changes yet culture changes usually start with them..as far as feeder programs..the kids from panther program are usually a hodgepodge..everyone can't go undefeated or win more than half their games..thats y playoffs can be exciting

[Komets2727]

1 minute ago, Justasportsfan said:

03 i think..as far as players go..the other programs are stronger in track n basketball..snider usually has football..those other schools have talent walking the hallways n big fellas up front have to be where they start..idk whats so hard about recruiting ur kids in the hallways..if ur an athlete sni high will seek u out..not saying other schools need coaching changes yet culture changes usually start with them..as far as feeder programs..the kids from panther program are usually a hodgepodge..everyone can't go undefeated or win more than half their games..thats y playoffs can be exciting

That is my point, all really good football players are not going to South or Northrop, they go to Snider or North Side. Yes, Northrop is great for track, cross country, and a couple other sports, definitely not football. Same with South Side, they field good teams in other sports, not football 

[Justasportsfan]

18 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

That is my point, all really good football players are not going to South or Northrop, they go to Snider or North Side. Yes, Northrop is great for track, cross country, and a couple other sports, definitely not football. Same with South Side, they field good teams in other sports, not football 

That being said..we can't align conferences to match with only certain sports..or can we??

[Komets2727]

13 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

That being said..we can't align conferences to match with only certain sports..or can we??

Doubtful. The SAC in football has the really good teams and really poor teams and it makes for bad matchups too frequently.

[BTF]

5 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Doubtful. The SAC in football has the really good teams and really poor teams and it makes for bad matchups too frequently.

This year is an anomaly. Most SAC teams appear to be down from their average. Three years ago, Luers beat everyone but Snider and shared an SAC title. This year they might barely qualify as a Top 20 team in 2A. North Side last year could have rumbled to the end with any team in the state outside of maybe 4 or 5 teams. This year they'd get crushed by 35 teams. Dwenger is obviously way down from average. Homestead teams of the past wouldn't have gotten obliterated by 42 points to Noblesville, so I would conclude that they are down (but they did almost beat Carmel, so it's a wait and see).

Outside of two teams that have proven that they are "Indy good," the SAC appears to be way down from their norm. So yes, "bad matchups", or I would rather say boring matchups, will flood our Fridays this fall. But I'm not ready to bail on the two division SAC after the first season. I commend the SAC for moving in the right direction. 

The only way to eliminate Snider/Concordia and Carroll/South Side matchups will be to create a new league all together for football only. 

 

[Justasportsfan]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

This year is an anomaly. Most SAC teams appear to be down from their average. Three years ago, Luers beat everyone but Snider and shared an SAC title. This year they might barely qualify as a Top 20 team in 2A. North Side last year could have rumbled to the end with any team in the state outside of maybe 4 or 5 teams. This year they'd get crushed by 35 teams. Dwenger is obviously way down from average. Homestead teams of the past wouldn't have gotten obliterated by 42 points to Noblesville, so I would conclude that they are down (but they did almost beat Carmel, so it's a wait and see).

Outside of two teams that have proven that they are "Indy good," the SAC appears to be way down from their norm. So yes, "bad matchups", or I would rather say boring matchups, will flood our Fridays this fall. But I'm not ready to bail on the two division SAC after the first season. I commend the SAC for moving in the right direction. 

The only way to eliminate Snider/Concordia and Carroll/South Side matchups will be to create a new league all together for football only. 

 

Even in a football only league..some teams will face blowouts n losing seasons..everyone can't have winning records..I wonder if there is any conference in the state that every teams garners at least 2 conference wins per year..

[Komets2727]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

This year is an anomaly. Most SAC teams appear to be down from their average. Three years ago, Luers beat everyone but Snider and shared an SAC title. This year they might barely qualify as a Top 20 team in 2A. North Side last year could have rumbled to the end with any team in the state outside of maybe 4 or 5 teams. This year they'd get crushed by 35 teams. Dwenger is obviously way down from average. Homestead teams of the past wouldn't have gotten obliterated by 42 points to Noblesville, so I would conclude that they are down (but they did almost beat Carmel, so it's a wait and see).

Outside of two teams that have proven that they are "Indy good," the SAC appears to be way down from their norm. So yes, "bad matchups", or I would rather say boring matchups, will flood our Fridays this fall. But I'm not ready to bail on the two division SAC after the first season. I commend the SAC for moving in the right direction. 

The only way to eliminate Snider/Concordia and Carroll/South Side matchups will be to create a new league all together for football only. 

 

I get what you are saying, but the bottom tier teams are pretty much the same every year and the same bad matchups occur every year. Go back 40 years, Northrop has 2 wins against Snider, Concordia is really close to that record against Snider as well, South Side the same, Wayne not much better. Since Carroll has come into the league, they have dominated those same teams, Homestead as well. Most years since Carroll and Homestead joined the SAC, the top tier teams are lucky to have 3 competitive games out of 9 games. Not a good recipe for success. The bad thing this year is that Homestead, Dwenger, Luers, and North Side are down as well. Basically, Snider vs Carroll is the only top tier game in the league. Sadly, the only 2 teams with any deep tournament runs in them are Snider and maybe Carroll. Rest of the teams most likely won’t get out of sectionals

[Justasportsfan]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

I get what you are saying, but the bottom tier teams are pretty much the same every year and the same bad matchups occur every year. Go back 40 years, Northrop has 2 wins against Snider, Concordia is really close to that record against Snider as well, South Side the same, Wayne not much better. Since Carroll has come into the league, they have dominated those same teams, Homestead as well. Most years since Carroll and Homestead joined the SAC, the top tier teams are lucky to have 3 competitive games out of 9 games. Not a good recipe for success. The bad thing this year is that Homestead, Dwenger, Luers, and North Side are down as well. Basically, Snider vs Carroll is the only top tier game in the league. Sadly, the only 2 teams with any deep tournament runs in them are Snider and maybe Carroll. Rest of the teams most likely won’t get out of sectionals

I'll never really count out cyo teams during tourney time until I see it..other conferences may have 4 competitive games..

[Justasportsfan]

Dinan vs tippman...lately the former oc/dc matchup has favored the chargers and if the panthers plan on ending that conference win streak Friday they will need to sure up their flaws..unfortunately Dinan is all to familiar on knowing exactly how n when to expose them..

[BTF]

3 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Dinan vs tippman...lately the former oc/dc matchup has favored the chargers and if the panthers plan on ending that conference win streak Friday they will need to sure up their flaws..unfortunately Dinan is all to familiar on knowing exactly how n when to expose them..

 

3 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Dinan vs tippman...lately the former oc/dc matchup has favored the chargers and if the panthers plan on ending that conference win streak Friday they will need to sure up their flaws..unfortunately Dinan is all to familiar on knowing exactly how n when to expose them..

Snider wins if they keep they run/pass ratio at 4/1. Too many drives stall as a result of unsuccessful pass plays. "One of four things can happen when you throw the ball, and three of them are bad." Vince Lombardi

[Komets2727]

3 hours ago, Justasportsfan said:

Dinan vs tippman...lately the former oc/dc matchup has favored the chargers and if the panthers plan on ending that conference win streak Friday they will need to sure up their flaws..unfortunately Dinan is all to familiar on knowing exactly how n when to expose them..

Snider is going to run the ball down Carroll’s throat. They aren’t going to be able to stop it. Eventually, Carroll will put 9 in the box and the Panthers will beat them deep with the pass