Turf 2020 and Beyond

[Muda69]

46 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

So now we can resume the thread?

Now that everybody's navel has been sufficiently gazed, yes.

 

[JustRules]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:44 AM, FastpacedO said:

Go run on Rose Hulman's Football field, any turf field, and any high school that has Natural grass and let me know what difference you feel (I have done all of the above. The people who play the game at the highest level possible aren't playing on High School natural grass when they do play on Natural Grass. Rose Hulman happens to have NFL grass that was installed when the Colts used their facility for training camp.

Rose did replace that field a few years ago. It ended up being too time consuming and costly to maintain that type of field. It's much harder than a regular bluegrass field. It was an amazing surface. Their turf is also really nice and using some advanced technology thanks to the engineering at Rose, but the Bermuda grass was still better.

[Bash Riprock]

How old is Aaron Rodgers??  Shocking to think we are prone to more health-related risks as we age.  Tendons may fatigue more and easier with age?.......but we like simple, so lets blame the the turf, forgetting the fact that many other athletes on a variety of surfaces tear their achilles......definitely the sole cause and we must change to grass to prevent this injury potential!!!!

https://michiganfoot.com/blog/item/459-why-are-achilles-tendon-ruptures-more-likely-with-age.html

Achilles tendon ruptures have become increasingly common in recent years, and are seen particularly often as a sports-related injury. It is most common in men in their 40s and 50s due to the wear and tear on the tendon that occurs naturally with age. As we age, blood flow to the Achilles tendon decreases and stiffness increases, thereby raising the risk of injury. Participating in strenuous running, jumping, and agility activities can lead to an Achilles tendon rupture if preventive measures such as wearing the appropriate footwear and increasing intensity and duration of physical activity slowly are not taken.

https://frederickquirantedpm.com/blog/item/167-aging-and-the-achilles-tendon.html

 It is common for the Achilles tendon to become weak as the aging process occurs, or if medical conditions such as diabetes or arthritis exist .

From this study

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23386750/

Average age was 46.4 years with 310 (76%) ruptures diagnosed and managed acutely (less than 4 weeks), whereas 96 (24%) were chronic (more than 4 weeks since the injury).

Other sports may have this injury more than football?  No way!

Results: Sporting activity was responsible for 275 ruptures (68%). This was higher in patients younger than 55 years of age (77%) than those older than 55 years (42%). Basketball was the most commonly involved sport, accounting for 132 ruptures (48% of sports ruptures, 32% of all ruptures), followed by tennis in 52 ruptures (13%, 9%), and football in 32 ruptures (12%, 8%).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5545059/

In conclusion, this study begins to define the role of aging in Achilles tendon biomechanics and ankle function in order to better understand the heightened injury risk in an increasingly active middle aged population. Specifically, we utilized a highly controlled animal model to investigate how Achilles tendon mechanical, structural, and functional properties vary from young to old age through a battery of in vivo and ex vivo assays. Key deficits in tendon material properties with increasing age were identified, which may help explain the increased rupture incidence of the middle aged population, especially when considered in tandem with the functional impairments detected in this study. Macroscale differences in tendon organization and composition were not observed, suggesting that other factors are primarily responsible for age-related deterioration of tendon mechanical strength. 

https://www.njfoot.com/blog/item/88-middle-aged-men-more-prone-to-achilles-tendon-injury-compared-to-women

Middle-aged men, both pro-athletes and recreational, seem to suffer from Achilles tendon injuries more often than any other age group or gender. While the tendon is designed to stretch and absorb the impact of running, walking and jumping, these injuries may occur more often since men will go on to jump, run, or walk higher and faster than their bodies may permit. 

[gonzoron]

6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

but we like simple, so lets blame the the turf, forgetting the fact that many other athletes on a variety of surfaces tear their achilles

And almost all of them after more than 4 plays..............

[Coach Nowlin]

@btownqbcoach This message board system has something called a "REPORT" button, as many of the original members of the leadership team, Coach Adams, Jimmie, Dk, would tell folks back then, same as I used to do when I was in a computer lab for 13 years and had full on day of 20 plus tabs open and did the day to day around here, and just like my pal Irishman has done now that he has been most visible in this current era of GID;  all you have to do is hit that little babysitting button we have here and ENTIRE team gets an email.  Many times Irishman has gotten to it first, others have done there part many times in the shadows of our wonderful website that you have been a member of for many years before.   Give it a try,  if so feel the need, however, I must say, as the OP of this thread, you've received quite the attention here last 5-6 days.  For that sir, you can say, thank you.  😀

For everyone else, I appreciated the info that was provided, and couldn't agree more, Bermuda is amazing to play on, I thank @foxbat team he is mostly associated with Lafayette Central Catholic, only school I've experienced it on.  Its really really nice.   

We get a lot of compliments for our track of natural plush bushy grass here in middle of Jasper County.   Practice field, well that builds character as @Muda69 would say.  

 

[Coach Nowlin]

On 9/13/2023 at 2:20 PM, btownqbcoach1 said:

 

Well with the lack of mods, it was bound to happen.

 

11 hours ago, Muda69 said:

I give up.  With all the dogpiling I rescind what I have ever said about artificial turf.   I was wrong and you all are right. 

It is the best thing to ever happen to Indiana High School football.  In fact I will contact my duly elected representative in the Indiana legislature and propose to him that taxpayer funds be used to replace all the existing government high school natural grass football fields with artificial turf, and all government schools that have already done this be reimbursed for the initial installation expense.  All Indiana high school athletes should never have to suffer through the indignity of a muddy football uniform or the uncertainty of a wet, slippery football that has fallen onto a wet grass field.

We also need to petition the IHSAA to not allow tournament games on grass fields. That should give all those p/p schools out there more motivation to replace their cow pastures with pristine, perfect artificial surfaces.  

And keep those pictures of new artificial fields coming!  I will endeavor to upvote them all from now on. 

ARTIFICIAL TURF FOR LIFE! ARTIFICIAL TURF FOREVER!

You sir, forgot Baseball and softball fields as well.   Don't just stop with Football

in my community, where I gladly pay a nice tax rate, the entire 7 Girl softball fields were flipped to turf.  Pretty sure many of the boys fields as well.   I know a lot of HS up here in the 219 area code have turf infields.  Saves a lot of rain outs from what I've heard 

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

We get a lot of compliments for our track of natural plush bushy grass here in middle of Jasper County.

You mean the same field we had mud slide races on 2 years ago? I'll try to dig up a picture.

[Coach Nowlin]

Yes sir,  bounced back wonderfully after week 10!!!!

 

3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

You mean the same field we had mud slide races on 2 years ago? I'll try to dig up a picture.

monsoon 

[Bash Riprock]

14 hours ago, gonzoron said:

And almost all of them after more than 4 plays..............

Guessing at 40, the decay of a tendon didn’t start at game time. His was also a contact injury as well 

[foxbat]

9 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 

You sir, forgot Baseball and softball fields as well.   Don't just stop with Football

in my community, where I gladly pay a nice tax rate, the entire 7 Girl softball fields were flipped to turf.  Pretty sure many of the boys fields as well.   I know a lot of HS up here in the 219 area code have turf infields.  Saves a lot of rain outs from what I've heard 

Outside of feet feeling like they are on fire during the summer and sliding out into left-center on a slide into second on wet days, my boys love playing on turf for baseball.  If you know your physics you know the bounce and if you can sneak a hot hit on the line you can get it to roll into the next county or even into tomorrow.  As you mentioned though, it severely cuts down on rainouts.  Last season, we didn't have a single rainout on turf ... that wasn't the case with grass/dirt ... had one tournament where we played three innings of pool play and were seeded from that due to rain.

[foxbat]

22 hours ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

Tradition? A tradition of what? 

Grass stains on uniforms do absolutely nothing for me. Overrated. 

Mud sucks. I won a regional in the muddiest field you've ever seen, ask the Southridge people about it. Again, overrated. 

Build character? How on earth could it build character? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My takeaways from playing 99% of my football games on grass were.... 

1. I had to wear ankle braces in every athletic "event, practice, pickup game" after playing on grass... because our practice field and game field were so poor my ankles were absolutely ruined from planting, cutting, and dropping back to pass on it for 4 years...

2. I hated it when it was wet, the ball was slick as hell because there would be a muddy film on the ball, along with the rain. Sucked, and essentially impossible to throw the ball. 

3. Morning practices sucked. 

Remember the collective team groan on morning practice days during warm-ups when after toe-touches, coach would yell, "On your butts" ... or something more colorful if our previous game performance was lacking somehow ... to do butterflies? 

[foxbat]

21 hours ago, Irishman said:

He only cut the grass.

He did not water it

He did not line it or buy the paint for lining it

He did not fertilize it

He did not reseed and overseed it. 
He did not aerate it

He never resurfaced the sod. 
So having him cut the grass saves you $2400 a year. 

A very under-/unappreciated aspect of field prep!

[btownqbcoach1]

6 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Remember the collective team groan on morning practice days during warm-ups when after toe-touches, coach would yell, "On your butts" ... or something more colorful if our previous game performance was lacking somehow ... to do butterflies? 

Feet would get almost pruney. I do NOT miss that. I'll take the extra heat on hot days. 

 

[Yuccaguy]

Looking at the Purdue game right now...

The field at Ross-Ade is immaculate!  There ain't a HS field in this state that even could could compare.

So let's just quit it with the "anti" fake grass stuff. 

 

 

[FastpacedO]

On 9/15/2023 at 8:22 AM, foxbat said:

Remember the collective team groan on morning practice days during warm-ups when after toe-touches, coach would yell, "On your butts" ... or something more colorful if our previous game performance was lacking somehow ... to do butterflies? 

Especially during Two-a-days!

[Muda69]

Why the Colts won't switch to grass at Lucas Oil Stadium despite increase in injuries: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2023/10/04/why-the-indianapolis-colts-wont-switch-to-grass-at-lucas-oil-stadium/71007554007/

Note: Story is behind a paywall

Quote

Every time Colts linebacker Zaire Franklin plays at Lucas Oil Stadium, it sends a message through his body. 

“When you plant, it's shockwaves,” Franklin said of 60 minutes of planting and cutting on the slit-film turf that he mentioned sits squarely on top of a pad of concrete. “And some of them talk back, you know; the turf talks back, and it doesn't feel good. You feel a difference now. Your cuts and stuff might be a certain way on turf, but that grass has just been good for a long time.

“You can feel a difference in your body though, I even talked to the coaches. When we're practicing and they're standing on the sideline their body feels different, whether we practice on turf or grass, and they're not even running. So, if that's happening to them, and they're just watching, what do you think is happening to us?"

Playing surfaces have been a point of contention between the NFL and NFL Players Association for years. It moved up in prominence when New York Jets quarterback Aaron Rodgers tore his Achilles four snaps into the opener on the MetLife Stadium turf, home of the New York Giants and Jets, knocking him out of the 2023 season.

It's been a long-standing issue for the Colts. Man Games Lost NFL found the Colts to be the second-most injured team between 2009-22, just behind the Giants. Indianapolis has had just over 3,000 games lost because of player injuries in that span, roughly 500 more than the average NFL team, according to the site's data. That means the Colts are missing the equivalent of more than two full seasons — 36 games — of two players per season over the average team.

Football is, of course, a violent game and there are always going to be injuries. But players across the league believe that artificial turf makes injuries more likely, especially to the lower leg as players change directions quickly. There is data that supports this belief, with the silt-film turf at Lucas Oil Stadium considered the least forgiving surface. That turf will be replaced with the safer monofilament turf after this season; the Colts said they did not consider a grass field.

Many teams, including the Colts, practice on grass though they play most of their games on turf.

“I think if you polled every player in the NFL, no one feels good if they play a game on turf,” Colts center and NFLPA representative Ryan Kelly said. “They practice on grass every day. Turn around, play the game on turf. You can say what you want about the (Aaron) Rodgers injury, and a lot of injuries, and I do think that guys feel like dog(expletive) after they play on turf. So, that's my stance on it.”

According to research done by the NFLPA between 2012-18, there was a 28% higher rate of lower-extremity, non-contact injuries on artificial turf compared to natural grass, including a 32% higher rate of knee injuries and 69% higher rate of foot or ankle injuries. 

....

 

 

[btownqbcoach1]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 

The willingness to troll before 8AM is impressive. Most of us have better things to do, but here we are. 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by btownqbcoach1

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 

The willingness to troll before 8AM is impressive. Most of us have better things to do, but here we are. 

 

Just sharing information.  And a lot of us are awake and working at 8AM. 

[btownqbcoach1]

10 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Just sharing information.  And a lot of us are awake and working at 8AM. 

Sureeeeee... "just sharing information" 😆

and I'd already been at work for 30 minutes, congrats. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by btownqbcoach1

[Muda69]

2 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

Sureeeeee... "just sharing information" 😆

and I'd already been at work for 30 minutes, congrats. 

Yes, just sharing information. Not all is unicorns and rainbows in the world of artificial playing surfaces, as I'm sure you would agree.

And congrats for being at work since 7:30am.  My work day today started at approx. 6:20am.

 

[Impartial_Observer]

3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, just sharing information. Not all is unicorns and rainbows in the world of artificial playing surfaces, as I'm sure you would agree.

And congrats for being at work since 7:30am.  My work day today started at approx. 6:20am.

 

FWIW I’m up about 4:20 AM everyday…..piss and go right straight back to bed. 

[btownqbcoach1]

12 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, just sharing information. Not all is unicorns and rainbows in the world of artificial playing surfaces, as I'm sure you would agree.

And congrats for being at work since 7:30am.  My work day today started at approx. 6:20am.

 

Cool lol

[Yuccaguy]

In a major change...Mishawaka will be installing Field Turf for the 24 season and beyond.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Yuccaguy

[Muda69]

Doyel: Replacing turf with grass will cost a fortune; losing another franchise QB costs more: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2023/10/09/if-colts-want-to-protect-anthony-richardson-replace-turf-with-grass/71117119007/

Quote

Colts quarterback Anthony Richardson doesn’t need better luck. He needs a better playing surface.

And you’d think the Colts would give it to him. I mean, if Richardson pans out over the next decade – if he becomes what it’s obvious he could become – what’s that worth to the franchise, and to the city?

What are three or four games a year on primetime television worth to Downtown Indianapolis? That’s what the Colts will have, if they can keep Richardson healthy and reap the winning benefits. How about annual trips to the postseason, meaning an extra game or two Downtown, more reservations at restaurants, more nights at hotels, more jerseys sold and tickets sold and beer sold – what’s all that worth?

What’s another trip to the Super Bowl worth?

The answer, Jim Irsay, is priceless. And you know it.

So enough with the talk of what Indianapolis needs from Lucas Oil Stadium, a multi-purpose facility that hosts concerts and Monster Jam truck shows and marching band competitions. Would it be expensive to rip up the fake grass, replace it with the real stuff, and do what it takes to keep that grass looking brand spanking new?

 

Hell yeah it would be expensive.

Try losing our second franchise quarterback since 2019 to injury. That sure seems to be where we’re headed after Richardson has been knocked out of three of his first four NFL games.

What would that cost?

Are we really quibbling about lawn care?

....

 

[Impartial_Observer]

45 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Doyel: Replacing turf with grass will cost a fortune; losing another franchise QB costs more: https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2023/10/09/if-colts-want-to-protect-anthony-richardson-replace-turf-with-grass/71117119007/

 

Why do I get the idea that if Indy opted to replace the turf at LOS with grass, you would post bitching about the cost and ridiculously expensive maintenance?