4A State Championship: Northwood vs East Central

[Komets2727]

54 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Err….I’m just looking SOLELY at CalPreps (I kind of rule out Sagarin these days).  Chatard is in the mix as a Top 10 team….it’s rare that a 5A team even sniffs that Top 10 is unless it’s a bumped 4A.  Regardless, the best Chatard can claim is 3A Champ…if they are so fortunate to do so.

I will admit some degree of bitterness as regards Snider because I pick them year after year, after year, after year, after year…ad nauseam to win 5A .  Outside of here, I oft complain to my football buddies that I listen too much to the Ft. Wayne fanboys when I pick Snider year after year……..AFTER YEAR.  To a point, unless a 4A team is involved, one just generally need show up to win 5A.

Still amazed Snider hasn’t actually been able to push up to 6A.  It’s been 11 years at this point….in the easiest Class in the State.

……and yet I pick Snider EVERY darn year.  

Dude, you should be thanking me for supporting a losing cause.

Fact check yourself dude. Snider is relevant almost every year, regardless of what class they are in. Certainly one of the most consistent teams in the entire state. As BTF pointed out to you, Snider has been in 6A recently and if they win Friday night, will be again. Quit picking Snider , we certainly don’t care, and hang your hat on Chatard and the creampuff 3A class

[IPFWFootball]

16 hours ago, PantherPride said:

Haha, the 4A title game thread has turned into what teams in Indiana can beat EC. This will be an interesting thread but none of it will be about the 4A game. 

I think we are thinking too small....Could East Central beat Anderson or Manchester? What about ISU? IU?!?

 

[Lysander]

“Snider is relevant….almost every year.”

Not sure I can add to that.  Nothing like being relevant.

 

 

 

 

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, Lysander said:

“Snider is relevant….almost every year.”

Not sure I can add to that.  Nothing like being relevant.

 

 

 

 

Not every team has the luxury of playing down a class. 

[Lysander]

Just now, BTF said:

Not every team has the luxury of playing down a class. 

….and Snider isn’t already?

5A is the literal “short bus” of Indiana HS football.

[BTF]

Just now, Lysander said:

….and Snider isn’t already?

5A is the literal “short bus” of Indiana HS football.

Lol, your true colors are really showing. It was just a matter of time.

[Lysander]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, your true colors are really showing. It was just a matter of time.

I’ve always said this about 5A….nothing new here.  Do you really disagree?  That’s why I pick Snider every year…it should easy pickings for them.  

Yet it rarely seems to be.

Edited November 20, 2023 by Lysander

[BTF]

Just now, Lysander said:

I’ve always said this about 5A….nothing new here.  Do you really disagree?

I think Snider/Chatard would be a good game. Other than that, 5A would utterly smash 3A. 

I think East Central might be slightly better than 5A's best. I'll know more after the weekend. But I'll take 5A's top six over 4A's top six. 

Let's be honest, no one said anything about 5A being weak when Cathedral was there. I don't know what your definition of weak is, but I happen to think that Snider, Valpo, Merrillville, and Mishawaka are pretty good football teams from the north. The "5A is weak talk is overblown" and it's mainly because it's not dominated by an Indy team when Cathedral isn't there. It doesn't fit the "Indy is better than everyone else" narrative. Therefore it has to be weak. 

[Donnie Baker]

16 hours ago, PantherPride said:

Haha, the 4A title game thread has turned into what teams in Indiana can beat EC. This will be an interesting thread but none of it will be about the 4A game. 

It’ll be more about football than the 1,2 and 3A threads. I swear to God it will 

[Trojan12]

Massey Ratings:

East Central (-29.5) over Northwood with a 93% chance of winning.

Calpreps: 

East Central 44 Northwood 20 giving the Trojans a chance to win of 94%.

[00NWP]

I may not chose NW to win outright...but I would take that 29.5 all day.  I think they may suprise some people..  I saw in this thread that someone thought EC would barley beat Snider in 5A.  With that said...it took Snider a last minute field goal to beat Mishawaka...NorthWood did in fact beat that same Mishawaka team...just throwing that out there.

[Rodney]

Some years I would put the top 10 3a against the top 10 5a and expect a 70% 80% win ratio for the 3a class *cough* last year *cough*

6 minutes ago, Trojan12 said:

East Central (-29.5) over Northwood with a 93% chance of winning.

@temptation shaking yet? a whole two beers on the line

[gonzoron]

30 minutes ago, Donnie Baker said:

It’ll be more about football than the 1,2 and 3A threads. I swear to God it will 

When does that start??

[Komets2727]

So let’s take a quick look at the classes:

1A - Lutheran and Adams Central, who else is there? 3 straight years of the same matchup

2A - This class is really down. Luers is a great football school, but they are an average football team this year that looks great against 2A competition 

3A - Chatard and who else? That’s right, nobody

4A - East Central and????

5A - There were at least 6-7 teams capable of winning a state title, other than 6A, no other class has more than 1-2 teams realistically 

6A - 6-7 teams had a shot to win a state title 

My point is while you say Snider is heads and shoulders above everyone in 5A, that statement just isn’t true. Look at the other classes, pretty damn easy to pick the cream of the crop except in 6A

Edited November 20, 2023 by Komets2727

[GoodKn19ht]

20 hours ago, Trojan12 said:

EC beats Moeller and people say Moeller wasn't trying.

Everyone praises New Pal and EC puts a running clock on them and now they're nobody.

Harrison(OH) wins 9 games and loses in regional semis and they're no good

EC running clocks 2 3a top team teams and now they're no good.

The mental gymnastics that some of you try to do is hilarious.

Occam's Razor

[Rodney]

this isn't even a down year for 5a

nobody is saying there aren't a handful of good football teams in 5a this year,

but I'd still throw money behind EC and Chatard

to take the 5a title given the opportunity this year

and don't even get me started about 5a last season

because I have more than 1 or 2 teams from 3a/4a

that could have walked right into 5a for a free ring last year

 

 

so what we are left with is

5a is a decent class on the years

where snider decides they actually want to tackle the ball carrier

Edited November 20, 2023 by Rodney

[FastpacedO]

57 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Fact check yourself dude. Snider is relevant almost every year, regardless of what class they are in. Certainly one of the most consistent teams in the entire state. As BTF pointed out to you, Snider has been in 6A recently and if they win Friday night, will be again. Quit picking Snider , we certainly don’t care, and hang your hat on Chatard and the creampuff 3A class

I think you took it a little too personal. His statement about 5A and what expected from FW Snider are true unfortunately. 6A was formed in 2013 (subtract the years Snider was in 6A 2017, 2018, and 2019. FW Snider made 1 appearance until this year in State Championship for 5A. The 3 years they were in 6A they would have had their hands full with Columbus East (South Rep) and New Pal (1 year North Rep and 1 year South Rep). What he is stating is that with 6A and the large enrollment schools FW Snider should have been "The" team in 5A yet 4A schools moving up were dominating 5A (I think Columbus East would have been moving up to 5A regardless of success factor).

38 minutes ago, Lysander said:

“Snider is relevant….almost every year.”

Not sure I can add to that.  Nothing like being relevant.

I think you struck a nerve

27 minutes ago, BTF said:

Lol, your true colors are really showing. It was just a matter of time.

In defense of Lysander he has always stated that 5A was the weakest since the start of 6A even when Cathedral was playing in 5A. The major factor teams at that time in 5A were New Palestine, Cathedral, and Columbus East (all coming up from 4A). During F.W. Snider time in 6A, 5A was dominated by Columbus East and New Palestine. You may be taking it a little too personal.

 

Back to the 4A game. East Central's defense kind of flows under the radar with how good their Offense is. The most points scored on their starters definitely was Moeller with 28. Martinsville had 20 but the game was well at hand. I guess we will see how good their secondary is or if they can get pressure on the QB with their odd defensive scheme (odd meaning something not many teams see).

[Lysander]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think Snider/Chatard would be a good game. Other than that, 5A would utterly smash 3A.  I think it would be a great game....Chatard has an opening Week 1, btw next year as I understand....I've heard 2 Indy area 6A teams starting with "C" mentioned as prospective opponents.   in the whole, 5 A smashes 3A (and 4A) but, I admit to not caring much about the bulk of teams in 3A and 4A.   I do truly believe that the top of 4A wins 5A most years unless Snider steps up.  3A sticks their nose in occasionally.  Snider, in my opinion, is (or should be) the gatekeeper in 5A

I think East Central might be slightly better than 5A's best. I'll know more after the weekend. But I'll take 5A's top six over 4A's top six. East Central is truly special this year.  Outside of East Central, 4A is not particularly special this year..I generally agree.  Last year was different...Roncalli and East Central were extraordinary. That said, I think EC cruises through 5A ....they are truly a Cincy area animal as to quality and a Top 4 team....even in OHIO.

Let's be honest, no one said anything about 5A being weak when Cathedral was there. I don't know what your definition of weak is, but I happen to think that Snider, Valpo, Merrillville, and Mishawaka are pretty good football teams from the north. The "5A is weak talk is overblown" and it's mainly because it's not dominated by an Indy team when Cathedral isn't there. It doesn't fit the "Indy is better than everyone else" narrative. Therefore it has to be weak.  As a, well. "non-lover" of Cathedral, I said from Day 1 that Cathedral never had it easier than when they ended up in 5A.  I declared 5A a piece of cake even then.  Although I have iived  in Indy for 40 plus years, my heart and soul is in a poor-ass southeast Indiana village of 500 people.  Hence my total respect for East Central and Lawrenceburg (and, maybe even, Batesville since Ron Raver's fortunate passing).  With that, Cathedral is 4A by student population...as was New Pal.  My point has always been that 5A was an abortive class with only a single "historic" football PROGRAM - Snider.  

All that said, I apologize for being a bit "chippy" today which is huge fun for me and I reserve the right to get chippy in this very next sentence.  I apologize to the extent needed...which I think is very little. I truly do respect Snider to be clear but have, in fact, truly, truly expected them to win 5A in most every year they found themselves in class.

That said, I will be rooting like Hell for them this weekend.

[00NWP]

8 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

So let’s take a quick look at the classes:

1A - Lutheran and Adams Central, who else is there? 3 straight years of the same matchup

2A - This class is really down. Luers is a great football school, but they are an average football team this year that looks great against 2A competition 

3A - Chatard and who else? That’s right, nobody

4A - East Central and????

5A - There were at least 6-7 teams capable of winning a state title, other than 6A, no other class has more than 1-2 teams realistically 

6A - 6-7 teams had a shot to win a state title 

My point is while you say Snider is heads and shoulders above everyone in 5A, that statement just isn’t true. Look at the other classes, pretty damn easy to pick the cream of the crop except in 6A

I guess I'm curious as to why you say in 4A...East Central and who.  I dont know if you have looked at the teams that have played in the State Finals in the last couple of years...but there are no repeat visitors...until this year. 4A has been dominated by those schools in Indy...and to be fair...alot of those year where public schools made appearances...the private schools moved classes. I feel as if you are putting EC in a category that it does not quite belong yet. 

[Rodney]

3 minutes ago, 00NWP said:

I guess I'm curious as to why you say in 4A...East Central and who.  I dont know if you have looked at the teams that have played in the State Finals in the last couple of years...but there are no repeat visitors...until this year. 4A has been dominated by those schools in Indy...and to be fair...alot of those year where public schools made appearances...the private schools moved classes. I feel as if you are putting EC in a category that it does not quite belong yet. 

pretty sure he's talking only this year

[Lysander]

18 minutes ago, GoodKn19ht said:

Occam's Razor

Don't now the point you were making but I'm totally down with anybody referencing "Occam's Razor"....that's heavy duty.

[Lysander]

25 minutes ago, Rodney said:

this isn't even a down year for 5a

nobody is saying there aren't a handful of good football teams in 5a this year,

but I'd still throw money behind EC and Chatard

to take the 5a title given the opportunity this year

and don't even get me started about 5a last season

because I have more than 1 or 2 teams from 3a/4a

that could have walked right into 5a for a free ring last year

 

 

so what we are left with is

5a is a decent class on the years

where snider decides they actually want to tackle the ball carrier

To repeat myself a week or so back....with a stolen quote

Genius is seldom recognized in its own time.

[hhpatriot04]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Fact check yourself dude. Snider is relevant almost every year, regardless of what class they are in. Certainly one of the most consistent teams in the entire state. As BTF pointed out to you, Snider has been in 6A recently and if they win Friday night, will be again. Quit picking Snider , we certainly don’t care, and hang your hat on Chatard and the creampuff 3A class

Creampuffs? Many years the 3A state champion has beaten the 4A state champion. Memorial is on record as saying 3A has been harder than 4A.

[Lysander]

3 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Creampuffs? Many years the 3A state champion has beaten the 4A state champion. Memorial is on record as saying 3A has been harder than 4A.

That would require folks actually paying attention.

Apologies for really getting away from the subject....but since we have a whole week, I'm curious, just what years do you contend the top of 3A was better than 4A?  I have my own opinions.

[oldtimeqb]

13 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Memorial is on record as saying 3A has been harder than 4A.

Um. No.