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Crown Point (13-0) vs. Ben Davis (12-1) 6A State Championship


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Ben Davis 37 - Crown Point 28

I believe this will be a good game, unlike 3A and 4A. CP is for real and, quite frankly, BD is very fortunate to be here. Honestly, Brownsburg is the best team in the state, they choked an 18 point lead in the 4th quarter against BD. This comes down to athletes in the end, BD has more hence they find a way to win

 

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14 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I get totally what you are pointing to. I very rarely use Ben Davis vs Warren Central as a gauge anymore. It is a classic Eastside vs Westside rivalry game. Believe it or not Warren Central leads the rivalry between the 2 schools 58-35-2. Warren Central got a big lead in the series (like 36-12) until Coach Dullaghan got established there then they started playing catch-up.

58-38-3 Warren...

It was 31-13-3 when Dullaghan took over. Dullaghan cut it to 39-29-3 before losing his last two. So, it was 41-29-3 when he retired.

You're right. This rivalry has been really good recently. Several games in the last 10 years decided by less than a TD...regardless of which team was the better one.

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On 11/18/2023 at 4:51 PM, scarab527 said:

Buz taking his 3rd different program to the title game, in 2 different states, all in the highest class for that state at the time.

Impressive

Buzea is one of the greatest football coaches in the history of Region football. Only three Region coaches have taken at least two teams downstate in the largest class. (Don Howell did it four times at Hobart, before Hobart moved into the second-biggest class, and Mark Hoffman did it twice at Valpo.)

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

2. Again, you're speculating. There's no way you can say that Crown Point isn't as good as Cathedral and Center Grove. You're letting prior year's results skew your opinions

3. I'll take that one back, I don't really think your stupid. I appreciate your passion for high school football even though we disagree. I just think you put too much conviction in your opinions, stating them like they're facts. 

 

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

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6 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

58-38-3 Warren...

It was 31-13-3 when Dullaghan took over. Dullaghan cut it to 39-29-3 before losing his last two. So, it was 41-29-3 when he retired.

You're right. This rivalry has been really good recently. Several games in the last 10 years decided by less than a TD...regardless of which team was the better one.

@Rudy might need to update Almanac Sports to be accurate. 

https://www.almanacsports.com/football/series.php?team1=WAR_CEN&team2=BD

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12 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

The Cincy Elder coach was quoted as saying Warren was the best high school football team that he had ever seen . That's saying something coming from a Cincy Ohio coach . 

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1 minute ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

The Cincy Elder coach was quoted as saying Warren was the best high school football team that he had ever seen . That's saying something coming from a Cincy Ohio coach . 

Yes he was dumbfounded by the buzzsaw they ran into. Even told one of the reporters the game film did no justice for their speed or physicality. 

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34 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Ben Davis 37 - Crown Point 28

I believe this will be a good game, unlike 3A and 4A. CP is for real and, quite frankly, BD is very fortunate to be here. Honestly, Brownsburg is the best team in the state, they choked an 18 point lead in the 4th quarter against BD. This comes down to athletes in the end, BD has more hence they find a way to win

 

Couldn't the same be said for Crown Point?

image.png.1911cb1fd65316f57715ef954691ec22.png

I don't think it will be as close as you have it. If I am wrong I will be on here Sunday morning to eat crow and admit it.

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30 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

It was a tough pill to swallow at the time , I was at the 2003 state game . As time passed , I started to appreciate just how good that 2003 Warren team was .

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2 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

It’s always personal against Penn to some people.  People get their feelings hurt when you claim a game was/could be lopsided.

”Showing your true colors” I believe it’s referred to.

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5 hours ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

It was a tough pill to swallow at the time , I was at the 2003 state game . As time passed , I started to appreciate just how good that 2003 Warren team was .

Should've come back on Sunday and played the 3A champion... debatedly the best ever team in 3A (or 1999 Roncalli, TW argues).

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7 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

@Bobref isn't the only one. I've always been proud of that team, but the offense carried us. There was probably enough crow to go around until the next Thanksgiving.

6 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Yes he was dumbfounded by the buzzsaw they ran into. Even told one of the reporters the game film did no justice for their speed or physicality. 

Elder's coach was right. We knew they were excellent; we knew they were fast; but their physicality was something else entirely. The got on you quick and when they were on you, that was it. They were easily the most physical team we played in my time at Penn. Hard to believe they lost twice. 

6 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Couldn't the same be said for Crown Point?

image.png.1911cb1fd65316f57715ef954691ec22.png

I don't think it will be as close as you have it. If I am wrong I will be on here Sunday morning to eat crow and admit it.

You certainly could say the same for Crown Point. Penn missed an extra point, had one blocked, and had a last second field goal attempt blocked. CP led by 14 twice in that game, too. Then you have the 17-0 lead against Westfield. I think you're right; this is probably a three score game.

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On 11/19/2023 at 7:20 AM, temptation said:

Eh, there really isn’t but I feel like BD is on a roll here and the bright lights of the state finals will play a factor.

FWIW I have also doubted this Crown Point team the last two weeks…

I don't believe the bright lights will play a factor . CP has a hand full of either state champion or state place wrestlers on this team . They have wrestled all over the country since a very young age . This stage will not be to big for them . Past history will have nothing to do with it either . If CP loses this game it will be because BD is the better team, period . 

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18 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

I will repeat I am not speculating on prior years results to skew my opinion. I am stating whole heartedly my opinion from watching on the field play this year 2023. We will soon find out on Saturday, and you can tell me if I am incorrect on how Crown Point plays Ben Davis's talent compared to Brownsburg, Cathedral, or Center Grove. If I am wrong I will promptly admit it after Saturday.

You didn't offend me, I've been called much worse. I was told the same thing about conviction in my opinion in 2003 when Penn had to play Warren Central for the then 5A State Championship. Combating those stating how good Penn's defense was. I think @Bobref is still chasing Desmond Tardy for touchdowns. I apologize Penn fans not trying to drum up old memories. I watched that Warren Central team pound eventual Ohio Div 1 State Champion Elder 45-20 at Ryle High School in Kentucky earlier that year. They were really really good. It was nothing personal against Penn.

Until the 2017 Ben Davis team came along that was the best football team to play in Indiana.  Snider would have probably been a better match up for Warren that year, however they just got womped by Penn the week prior. 

It sucks, it sucked watching the game, but it is what it is. 

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29 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe the bright lights will play a factor . CP has a hand full of either state champion or state place wrestlers on this team . They have wrestled all over the country since a very young age . This stage will not be to big for them . Past history will have nothing to do with it either . If CP loses this game it will be because BD is the better team, period . 

Good point.  Malaski was also the state champ in the discus last spring.

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49 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

I don't believe the bright lights will play a factor . CP has a hand full of either state champion or state place wrestlers on this team . They have wrestled all over the country since a very young age . This stage will not be to big for them . Past history will have nothing to do with it either . If CP loses this game it will be because BD is the better team, period . 

While a couple of players on the CP team can handle the pressure, they cannot block, catch, run, pass the ball and they cannot take on blocks, guard or tackle every player on the field. 

These two guys have to rely on the other 9 to not be overwhelmed by the moment. 

 

Another note...

CP has found ways to win, in very tough games. If BD can throw the ball downfield and give CP more than one formation to look at....I think BD will control the game via the air. Penn ran at most 5 formations against CP... (that is I believe over by 3 formations) CP really struggled when Penn went 5 wide. 

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On 11/20/2023 at 4:49 PM, temptation said:

I know @Bash Riprock hates numbers but since the turn of the century, there have been 11 Indy vs non-Indy area state finals matchups in the state’s largest class and the average margin of victory is 32.8 points per game.

In fact, you have to go all the way back to 1996 to find a state finals contest in the state’s largest class that has finished with a one possession final score in such a contest.

Crown Point is likely just the next victim.

I hate numbers....not even close.  Obvious you have no clue as to my profession.

People that use numbers without meaning behind the numbers are foolish.  

I do agree that BD is heavily favored, but less about history and far more about their talent and coaching of their 2023 squad.

image.thumb.png.781a616b47c3f306606818775cadb1ec.png

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6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I hate numbers....not even close.  Obvious you have no clue as to my profession.

People that use numbers without meaning behind the numbers are foolish.  

I do agree that BD is heavily favored, but less about history and far more about their talent and coaching of their 2023 squad.

image.thumb.png.781a616b47c3f306606818775cadb1ec.png

My bad…you hate what numbers reveal and think that contests with a 3-4 possession margin of victory where battles that were “tough games.”

You are well-versed and educated in “coach speak.”

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33 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

While a couple of players on the CP team can handle the pressure, they cannot block, catch, run, pass the ball and they cannot take on blocks, guard or tackle every player on the field. 

These two guys have to rely on the other 9 to not be overwhelmed by the moment. 

 

Another note...

CP has found ways to win, in very tough games. If BD can throw the ball downfield and give CP more than one formation to look at....I think BD will control the game via the air. Penn ran at most 5 formations against CP... (that is I believe over by 3 formations) CP really struggled when Penn went 5 wide. 

When you say "These two Guys" your referencing the Clark brothers? They also have stud Griffin Van Tichelt who made it to state last year but was beaten on Friday night . Add in a slew of other wrestling studs . Lets be honest , CP's wrestling JV would be top 10 in the state . CP has some very good players , but they don't have enough to deal with BD's speed for 4 quarters . 

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22 hours ago, SIR IRISH said:

Yes, Westfield is a solid team, no doubt in the world.  Your point is duly noted.  I just think Ben Davis is too solid all the way around and will win by three to four scores.  Again, I could be wrong, just my opinion

I think it depends on how CP handles the atmosphere at the beginning. In 2020, Westfield was sort of awe struck, and CG had been there before. The next year, Westfield took an early lead and that really was big in them almost pulling off the upset. Now if CP is in awe of their surroundings and of BD just being BD, then your prediction could well be correct. 

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1 hour ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

When you say "These two Guys" your referencing the Clark brothers? They also have stud Griffin Van Tichelt who made it to state last year but was beaten on Friday night . Add in a slew of other wrestling studs . Lets be honest , CP's wrestling JV would be top 10 in the state . CP has some very good players , but they don't have enough to deal with BD's speed for 4 quarters . 

I am not discounting the accomplishments these young men are having in their individual sports...

However they cannot do everything on the field. Penn exposed massive holes in their defensive secondary. Ben Davis consistently have competed against the best teams in the state, they have seen everything CP is going throw their way. I am not saying CP wont be successful, but I don't expect them to catch BD flat footed, especially when BD has been in these caliber of games almost every week of the playoffs. 

I assume CP was rocking last weekend, but at Penn....we were dead silent for most of the game. The only stress put on the CP players was either from themselves or from Penn's play on the field. 

If Penn can put CP under stress, I expect BD to have them even greater amounts stress. 

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