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Gahoosierfan

Schools set to consolidate !

77 posts in this topic

I know consolidation can be a touchy subject, but I generally support it. Allowing more state funding and competition in schools creates a better environment for students. Best of luck to the new school. I don't believe either school has football. Will they be picking it up?

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Both schools have football. I'm curious what the IHSAA will do. Both schools will enter the first year of the new cycle in 1A, then have a combined enrollment that would push the consolidated school into 2A for the second year of the cycle.

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7 minutes ago, Indieanapolis said:

I know consolidation can be a touchy subject, but I generally support it. Allowing more state funding and competition in schools creates a better environment for students. Best of luck to the new school. I don't believe either school has football. Will they be picking it up?

Both schools have carried a football program.  Rockville lost to Sheridan in the 2007 title game.  Despite how it may seem from the outside, Rockville athletics will definitely be getting the better end of this deal (assuming all of the players stay in Parke Co).  Turkey Run is currently loaded with athletes in grades 7-9.

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5 minutes ago, Joe Kane said:

Both schools have carried a football program.  Rockville lost to Sheridan in the 2007 title game.  Despite how it may seem from the outside, Rockville athletics will definitely be getting the better end of this deal (assuming all of the players stay in Parke Co).  Turkey Run is currently loaded with athletes in grades 7-9.

 

What sectional would they play in?

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1 hour ago, Indieanapolis said:

What sectional would they play in?

Both schools currently are in sectional 45.

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6 hours ago, JQWL said:

Both schools have football. I'm curious what the IHSAA will do. Both schools will enter the first year of the new cycle in 1A, then have a combined enrollment that would push the consolidated school into 2A for the second year of the cycle.

If I remember correctly, this same scenario played out when Anderson and Anderson Highland consolidated. Anderson was 4A, and I believe Highland was as well. After consolidation, the total enrollment was high enough to push them up to 5A, but as it happened in the middle of the two year cycle, Anderson high school played out the final year in 4A as a 5A sized school. 

 

Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this. 

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Posted (edited)

One educational community destroyed to possibly enrich another.  Seems 50/50 to me.

What will happen to the Turkey Run building?

 

Edited by Muda69
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Per this article in the Crawfordsville Journal Review, the consolidated high school will be housed in the current Rockville building and the middle school (6-8) will be in the Turkey Run building.  Names of schools, colors, mascots and whatever else need to be worked out are still to be determined.

http://www.journalreview.com/news/local/article_2a91100a-1b35-11e7-8dd2-93c57284e13d.html

As this pertains to football, based on the recent IHSAA enrollment information the current combined enrollment of grades 9-12 is 383 students which is just 6 above the largest 1A school, so it's more than likely the combined school will eventually end up in 1A anyway. That's assuming the combined school will probably lose a few students in the consolidation process plus the school district's enrollment has been on the decline for the past few years.

Turkey Run is currently the smallest public school that has a football team. The only schools that are smaller are Rock Creek Academy, Traders Point Christian Academy and Indiana School for the Deaf.

 

 

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The combined school is still a 1A it won't change anything except add a bye in that sectional for two years. 

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On 4/7/2017 at 3:22 PM, Muda69 said:

One educational community destroyed to possibly enrich another.  Seems 50/50 to me.

What will happen to the Turkey Run building?

 

This is not necessarily destroying any educational community.  Small schools ( I mean really small schools like Turkey Run) have difficulty offering the same educational opportunity for their students that larger schools can.  It is also beneficial to the not nearly as thinly spread faculty members.  The academic benefits in these circumstances far outweigh the athletic ones, and are typically the driving forces for making these moves happen.  While funding for athletics is usually a factor, the increased academic opportunities can be amazing for the students in the consolidated building.  

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On 4/7/2017 at 4:22 PM, Muda69 said:

One educational community destroyed to possibly enrich another.  Seems 50/50 to me.

What will happen to the Turkey Run building?

 

Of all people to make that comment. The very system you support is doing EXACTLY that, taking from one to enrich another; all the while destroying educational communities across this State and the country.

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4 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Of all people to make that comment. The very system you support is doing EXACTLY that, taking from one to enrich another; all the while destroying educational communities across this State and the country.

Your rage is making your lash out, Irishman.  Please stay on topic.

 

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3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Your rage is making your lash out, Irishman.  Please stay on topic.

 

It is COMPLETELY on topic....no rage here, but your lack of concern and wanting a segregated system is causing you to post stupid comments.

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Oh no, not again...

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Just now, DanteEstonia said:

Oh no, not again...

:)

Round 2!

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It is baffling that one cannot see it clearly. The dramatic increases in funding for vouchers and charters on the State level puts the per student value for each at a higher rate than what either of these schools is getting per student. The State spent $147 Million in vouchers alone last year. AND excused $91 Million in debt that charter operators owed the State. Were these two districts in financial trouble 8 years ago, to the point they were considering consolidation? Turkey Run has always been one of the smaller districts in the State, so what has changed in that time?

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5 minutes ago, Irishman said:

It is baffling that one cannot see it clearly. The dramatic increases in funding for vouchers and charters on the State level puts the per student value for each at a higher rate than what either of these schools is getting per student. The State spent $147 Million in vouchers alone last year. AND excused $91 Million in debt that charter operators owed the State. Were these two districts in financial trouble 8 years ago, to the point they were considering consolidation? Turkey Run has always been one of the smaller districts in the State, so what has changed in that time?

AWESOME!  So well stated!  Irish knows exactly what he is talking about!

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

This is not necessarily destroying any educational community.  Small schools ( I mean really small schools like Turkey Run) have difficulty offering the same educational opportunity for their students that larger schools can.  It is also beneficial to the not nearly as thinly spread faculty members.  The academic benefits in these circumstances far outweigh the athletic ones, and are typically the driving forces for making these moves happen.  While funding for athletics is usually a factor, the increased academic opportunities can be amazing for the students in the consolidated building.  

Very good point, and quite the counter to Muda's general overall pessimistic view (however he did point out a positive that one community would be enriched which is surprising and maybe a new approach, like hugging someone and giving them a kidney punch at the same time, but hey its progress albeit not much of one, but baby steps ya know).  But in typical Muda fashion, he completely ignored any discussion points that were sound and offered a clear concise view, instead choosing to focus on the post that  would allow him to rile someone up and continue to degrade posts through no observational insight whatsoever, instead offering only opinion and conjecture. 

 

Consolidation of schools has benefits and pitfalls for cost.  I won't go into the effect it has on the different socio-economic classes as the data shifts drastically amongst them, but instead discuss a general cost adjustment as an overall community economy, because quite honestly I don't want to upset any posters unnecessarily.   The major pitfall being the initial cost to make any adjustments/expansions of the school that will be housing the students.  Another, but this one isn't an absolute, is that the Marshall, Indiana residents will see an overall devalue of their property.  By how much, no way to tell.  I say it isn't an absolute because the current housing market will probably crash quite soon as it has in the past, and potentially happen within the same timeframe as the devaluation due to the loss of school.  In saying that, there are studies that show rural towns (which both are) have an overall boost to housing value, so this is kind of a toss up as to whether it will beneficial or harmful.  The main cost benefit will be the economy of size the new school has to offer.  The operating, and overhead costs will be reduced as only one facility needs to be maintained. 

 

That being said, historical data has shown that consolidation of schools has an overall net loss to communities overall as the economies of size and other benefits not mentioned don't offset the overall negative aspects of consolidation.  The net loss can be offset through policymakers and tax adjustments, but again, only time will tell if this will ultimately come to fruition.

 

The one negative intangible impact I see is the loss of, or more accurate a sense of disconnect the families and community of Marshall will have with the loss of their school.  Walking down the hall of a school that was never yours, but is now your children's and grandchildren can be quite jarring.  When Linton replaced the high school I attended with the new school, I felt no attachment in anyway and actually felt quite sad with the loss anytime I stepped through the new schools doors.  I would guess that this will be compounded as Marshall will not be replacing a school in the same spot as the old, but moving to a location external to the township.  I don't envy the older generations the feelings of loss and hardship  that they will unquestionably go through when this does happen.  I hadn't really considered consolidation before as I've had no dealings with it, but after writing this post, I feel if I ever am part of a community that will be impacted in the future, I will vote against it as the negatives outweigh the positives. 

Edited by puff
Editing
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On 4/7/2017 at 3:22 PM, Muda69 said:

One educational community destroyed to possibly enrich another.  Seems 50/50 to me.

What will happen to the Turkey Run building?

 

What killed Turkey Run was US Ag policy. When the small farms could no longer compete with the industrial farms, the locals sold out to the Amish, who'll never go to TR. Started 20-30 years ago. Back then Rockville and Turkey Run were about the same size. Rockville maintained enrollment, Turkey Run lost a third of there's in twenty years, and it's still dropping faster than Rockville's.  The biggest problem besides politics (archrivals since the 50s) was just how spread out the district is and how garbage the roads are. A kid in the northwest corner will take over a hour bus ride to TR then Rockville which is a twenty mile drive, and they are only 20min drive to North Vermillion.

Since TR is down to about 160kids, it kind of has to be done. I'm already mourning, since we're down to our final Covered Bridge Game and next year will likely be the last Banks of the Wabash tournaments.

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3 hours ago, Irishman said:

It is baffling that one cannot see it clearly. The dramatic increases in funding for vouchers and charters on the State level puts the per student value for each at a higher rate than what either of these schools is getting per student. The State spent $147 Million in vouchers alone last year. AND excused $91 Million in debt that charter operators owed the State. Were these two districts in financial trouble 8 years ago, to the point they were considering consolidation? Turkey Run has always been one of the smaller districts in the State, so what has changed in that time?

Choice isn't free, like people think traditional government schools are.  

26 minutes ago, FLP_NDRox said:

The biggest problem besides politics (archrivals since the 50s) was just how spread out the district is and how garbage the roads are. A kid in the northwest corner will take over a hour bus ride to TR then Rockville which is a twenty mile drive, and they are only 20min drive to North Vermillion.

 

And isn't it great that under current state law that kid living in the northwest corner of Parke county can now attend a much closer North Vermillion and not have to pay a large out-of-district tuition fee, if that school corporation chooses to accept out-of-district transfers?

4 hours ago, Irishman said:

It is COMPLETELY on topic....no rage here, but your lack of concern and wanting a segregated system is causing you to post stupid comments.

How many students have the Turkey Run and Rockville  government school corporations lost to you hated charters schools, Irishman?  Do you have that data? 

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5 hours ago, eschnur66 said:

This is not necessarily destroying any educational community.  Small schools ( I mean really small schools like Turkey Run) have difficulty offering the same educational opportunity for their students that larger schools can.  It is also beneficial to the not nearly as thinly spread faculty members.  The academic benefits in these circumstances far outweigh the athletic ones, and are typically the driving forces for making these moves happen.  While funding for athletics is usually a factor, the increased academic opportunities can be amazing for the students in the consolidated building.  

May also find better opportunities to address students with special needs too with a little more critical mass and a couple of communities pushing for those services together.

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55 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Choice isn't free, like people think traditional government schools are.  

And isn't it great that under current state law that kid living in the northwest corner of Parke county can now attend a much closer North Vermillion and not have to pay a large out-of-district tuition fee, if that school corporation chooses to accept out-of-district transfers?

How many students have the Turkey Run and Rockville  government school corporations lost to you hated charters schools, Irishman?  Do you have that data? 

More stupid comments. You completely do not get what you are even talking about. How many students a school district loses to vouchers or charters is not the point at all. The fact is that the money is controlled at the State level, so when more money goes for the "choices" of a few, every district pays. Again, another concept that is not difficult to grasp for people with normal intelligence. 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, puff said:

Very good point, and quite the counter to Muda's general overall pessimistic view (however he did point out a positive that one community would be enriched which is surprising and maybe a new approach, like hugging someone and giving them a kidney punch at the same time, but hey its progress albeit not much of one, but baby steps ya know).  But in typical Muda fashion, he completely ignored any discussion points that were sound and offered a clear concise view, instead choosing to focus on the post that  would allow him to rile someone up and continue to degrade posts through no observational insight whatsoever, instead offering only opinion and conjecture. 

 

Consolidation of schools has benefits and pitfalls for cost.  I won't go into the effect it has on the different socio-economic classes as the data shifts drastically amongst them, but instead discuss a general cost adjustment as an overall community economy, because quite honestly I don't want to upset any posters unnecessarily.   The major pitfall being the initial cost to make any adjustments/expansions of the school that will be housing the students.  Another, but this one isn't an absolute, is that the Marshall, Indiana residents will see an overall devalue of their property.  By how much, no way to tell.  I say it isn't an absolute because the current housing market will probably crash quite soon as it has in the past, and potentially happen within the same timeframe as the devaluation due to the loss of school.  In saying that, there are studies that show rural towns (which both are) have an overall boost to housing value, so this is kind of a toss up as to whether it will beneficial or harmful.  The main cost benefit will be the economy of size the new school has to offer.  The operating, and overhead costs will be reduced as only one facility needs to be maintained. 

 

That being said, historical data has shown that consolidation of schools has an overall net loss to communities overall as the economies of size and other benefits not mentioned don't offset the overall negative aspects of consolidation.  The net loss can be offset through policymakers and tax adjustments, but again, only time will tell if this will ultimately come to fruition.

 

The one negative intangible impact I see is the loss of, or more accurate a sense of disconnect the families and community of Marshall will have with the loss of their school.  Walking down the hall of a school that was never yours, but is now your children's and grandchildren can be quite jarring.  When Linton replaced the high school I attended with the new school, I felt no attachment in anyway and actually felt quite sad with the loss anytime I stepped through the new schools doors.  I would guess that this will be compounded as Marshall will not be replacing a school in the same spot as the old, but moving to a location external to the township.  I don't envy the older generations the feelings of loss and hardship  that they will unquestionably go through when this does happen.  I hadn't really considered consolidation before as I've had no dealings with it, but after writing this post, I feel if I ever am part of a community that will be impacted in the future, I will vote against it as the negatives outweigh the positives. 

This is accurate to Consolidation generally, but NOT to this case.

The school boards were already consolidated. Even before then the schools shared a superintendent. They schools are even keeping all the buildings open, and the only layoffs will be coaches and ECA sponsors. That cost savings will be reduced by increased transportation costs. There will be little if any savings.

Marshall has maybe 320 residents. Not a typo. There's been a 16% loss of population since EDIT: 2000. I think the real estate situation there isn't going to be hurt by this.

Turkey Run Schools are almost 4 miles from Marshall.

Turkey Run was created in the fifties by a consolidation of three high schools in six townships.  No town remaining in the old TR districts has 400 people left. The county's largest employer is the government, both the schools and the prison in Rockville.  Those towns are more likely to become ghosts in my lifetime than come back.

These kids will be bussed at approximately $25,000/yr to their archrivals. This is where it will get interesting.

Edited by FLP_NDRox
Gotta get right date.
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On a lighter note I was told today the new nickname will be The Trail Blazers

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