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BisonUmpire last won the day on March 10 2013

BisonUmpire had the most liked content!

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About BisonUmpire

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  1. Titans QB pass play

    Is the passer an ineligible receiver?
  2. Why Is There A Shortage Of High School Officials

    This sure isn't going to help with our recruiting efforts. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/high-school/article193795999.html
  3. Pretty low threshold now for taunting. What are you seeing that's not called? Eliminate all low blocks has been on the rules proposals for a couple years. Based on this year's survey I assume it's on again. Low blocks are pretty limited already in HS compared to other levels.
  4. Rule 7-5-12: Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before the last pass which crosses the neutral zone is in flight. If B touches the pass in or behind the neutral zone, this restriction is terminated. An ineligible is not illegally downfield if, at the snap, he immediately contacts a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone. Definitions are key in the rules, and I highlighted the critical words above. The first one is expanded neutral zone. It's defined in rule 2-28-2: The neutral zone may be expanded following the snap up to a maximum of 2 yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage, in the field of play, during any scrimmage down. The next two are where the legal forward pass must cross the neutral zone for this to apply so a pass caught behind the LOS wouldn't apply or a backward pass or an illegal forward pass (i.e. intentional grounding). I also bolded the "in flight" part to show where the timing applies. I hope that helps!
  5. Linemen are allowed in 2 yards in HS. And the key error most people make is when the limitation ends. They can't go more than 2 yards before the ball is released. As I mentioned on the officiating forum there are many times where it looks like the lineman is 3-4 yards downfield or more, but when the ball was released they are still within the 2 yards allowable. It's a pretty tricky call to make with the RPO offenses because there are several different factors in different parts of the field the covering official has to make largely due to the timing - where is play A when player B in a different part of the field does something?
  6. Rules Ideas

    Agree with fbofficial. Although on RPO plays the linemen usually don't pass set so you don't usually have a pass read. The tricky part of this is the foul occurs when the pass is RELEASED. The U is not looking directly at the QB when the pass is thrown and may be watching a different blocker who is engaged legally. He has to realize the pass has been released and immediately determine where the linemen were when the pass was released. It's somewhat tricky to catch that. I've been burned a couple time flagging it thinking the lineman was at least 3-4 yards downfield (they get 2 yards before it's a foul). When I saw the video I realized the lineman was still within the 2 yards when the ball was released but got to the 3-4 yard range pretty quickly and I was fooled. That's why I am even more careful now I don't pull on that too quickly. I key on the linemen and when I see they have gone more than 2 yards I take a quick peak at the QB. If the ball is already gone I don't flag it. If he throws it after that then I have a foul. Using that mechanic I've found I've been right almost every time. The good news is I haven't thrown a flag when it wasn't a foul. There have been a couple where I probably could have flagged it, but it would have been really close. In summary, it's somewhat tricky to get for an excellent official. I expect you see a lot of inconsistency both ways with average officials. I do know that most of the time when I hear coaches complain about not having a flag, video shows the lineman was fine when the pass left the QB's hand. I would just work with the officials and understand how the play is officiated. I hope that helps.
  7. Alabama vs. Georgia - Who Ya' Got?

    Very excited. Two Indy guys working tonight! The other is a Michigan transplant though so we only can partially claim him. Both of these guys have given a lot back to Indiana high school officials. We are very fortunate to have 5 active and 1 retired NFL official in Indiana (1 in Fort Wayne and the rest in Indy metro) plus 5 B1G officials (I think I counted them right), 1 MAC official, and several MVFC officials. Most of them worked high school games in Indiana earlier in their careers. You all probably complained about them on this site.
  8. The logic of fouls being enforced from the spot (assuming run ends beyond the spot of the foul) is the team legally gained the yardage to that point. So on a 40-yard run with the hold 30 yards beyond the LOS they legally gained those 30 yards so let them have them. But then enforce the penalty from there. I'm also a huge proponent of most fouls behind the LOS by the offense enforced from the previous spot rather than spot. A holding penalty is already a drive killer. Adding another 5-10 yards to it is excessive. The same applies to fouls by the defense on runs that end behind the LOS. The best example is defensive holding and the QB is subsequently sacked. That's a running play by definition since possession was never lost. If it's a 10-yard sack enforcement will be from the spot of the sack. But if the QB fumbles the ball and recovers it, the foul now happened during a loose ball play and it's enforced from the previous spot. It doesn't happen often (I can only think of it happening 2 or 3 times in my career), but it is an unfair enforcement.
  9. Fake Kneeldown

    As I said above, if it's the first half or a close second half I just tell them to be smart and remember it's a live ball. When the offense is telling me they are usually telling the defense as well so I don't tell them anything .If someone on the defense asks me if they are taking a knee I either tell them I don't know (if they never said anything to me) or they said they were taking a knee but be smart. The key is for the OL to remember it's still a live ball and they shouldn't expect the defense to do nothing.
  10. Fake Kneeldown

    I agree with HFF's comments about the difference between 1st half/close 2nd half versus blowout 2nd half. In the latter situation I just tell the defense to be smart and remind the offense it's still a live ball and prepare to block. In the former situation I put myself much closer to the snapper and make sure nobody does anything. But I also never ask what they plan to do. They usually just tell us what they plan to do. I didn't see the Purdue play, but in NCAA rules if a QB simulates taking a snap the down is considered over. So as soon as he starts to go down kill it. That would be a good rule change for NFHS as well. It's never been an issue though.
  11. What is a "catch?"

    Here is the HS definition of a catch again: Rule 2-4-1 (emphasis added) A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball or having the forward progress of the player in possession stopped while the opponent is carrying the player who is in possession and inbounds. The common philosophy taught (but not necessarily followed) by many is to survive the ground or become a runner by making a football move. You won't find those terms in the rule book just like you won't find point of attack in terms of holding or the 6 categories of DPI. But if you attend clinics and association meetings, these are the common philosophies taught. Some do come down from NFL and NCAA and can be applied IF supported by rule. In this case they are because the rule does contain the words bolded above. I do agree in this example it would be extremely unlikely for an official to see that bobble in real time and it would likely be ruled a catch. But if the ball squirted away from him rather than staying close after it hit the ground, most trained HS officials would rule it incomplete.
  12. What is a "catch?"

    They aren't in conflict. One states the rule and the other provides further clarification. That's what these documents often do. You are trying to read way too literally into the rule, and I'm trying to help you understand what it means. There are no NFL officials who are confused about it.
  13. What is a "catch?"

    I believe one is the rule and the other is in a supporting document (Operations Manual?). In NFHS there are case book plays and NCAA has approved rulings. Both have study guides that are produced to help explain what the rules mean. I presume the Operations Manual may be a similar document. I appreciate you trying to understand this and not being a jerk about it. I can pretty confidently say though the "survive the ground" philosophy is well beyond just the split second any part of his body touches the ground. It's all part of a process. Where that can get fuzzy is if he is taking steps as he's going to the ground as in Dez Bryant's play. Some will argue he didn't go to the ground until after he completed the catch. A good philosophy I heard was if the runner has enough control to be able to stop and/or change direction, he's not going to the ground. He's now a runner. In Dez' case he was going to the ground the entire time. He was just able to get his feet under him a couple times in the process. These are the kinds of comments and discussions officials have on a regular basis to try to get consistency into these types of judgment calls.
  14. What is a "catch?"

    This is where knowing the rule and understanding the spirit and intent of the rule converge. Anyone can read a rule and try to apply it. Spirit and philosophy always support the written rule and is the key part most coaches, fans, and commentators often don't realize. The intent of this rule is NOT to give the receiver the catch the split second any part of his body touches the ground. The way you are trying to interpret it that would be the case. Maybe they used initial to differentiate between when he hits the ground versus when he gets up and starts running (assuming he wasn't touched). The idea behind "survive the ground" is to make sure the player has possession throughout the entire process of going to the ground. In this example that is extremely clear. The discussion points are around whether the ball touched the ground after it came loose or whether this was obvious enough to overturn the call on the field. Those are legitimate discussions and there are experienced officials that disagree on both. But whether or not he survived the ground is not. That part is obvious on replay.
  15. What is a "catch?"

    NFHS rule 2-4-1 - Definition of a catch (emphasis added) A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession of the ball or having the forward progress of the player in possession stopped while the opponent is carrying the player who is in possession and inbounds. You are reading too much into it. A player going to the ground has to survive the contact with the ground. One axiom used is he has to be able to stand up and hand the ball to the official without having lost control. That is probably a little extreme as there will be cases where the ball comes out before that (i.e. player lying on the ground for a couple seconds and the defender swiping the ball out of his hands), but this bobble is well within the context of surviving the ground.