Ben Davis @ Warren Central, the 96th Meeting

[BDGiant93]

For the 96th time, Ben Davis will face Warren Central on Friday at WC. Both teams are off to uncharacteristically slow starts. Thoughts on this one?

[Indiana Fan]

Warren easy victory

[wvigo13]

My first BD-WC game was 2013 when Kyle Castner (spelling?)was the QB. Jeff George was the QB for Warren. BD ended up winning state the next year after I moved back here to TH. Just a quick story.

I'm gonna say BD wins in a close one. 28-24. 

[Knightmare]

I'll take the Giants 2-0

[Staxawax]

1 hour ago, wvigo13 said:

My first BD-WC game was 2013 when Kyle Castner (spelling?)was the QB. Jeff George was the QB for Warren. BD ended up winning state the next year after I moved back here to TH. Just a quick story.

I'm gonna say BD wins in a close one. 28-24. 

I don't think you mean Jeff George.  Perhaps his son.  Jeff would have been like 50.

[Prospect]

1 hour ago, Staxawax said:

I don't think you mean Jeff George.  Perhaps his son.  Jeff would have been like 50.

His son aka Jeff George Jr.

[Warren Central Warrior]

I love this rivalry between Ben Davis and Warren Central. 18 State Championships combined. The Warriors lead the series 57-35-3. My prediction: Warren Central 38, Ben Davis 7. Good luck to both teams and may the best rival win!!!!

Go Warriors!!!

[Guest DT]

This is likely the least consequential and least hyped BD-WC matchup in 25 years.

Both programs have experienced a significant decline in individual talent.

Both have seen massive home game attendance declines in recent years.

Both have huge stadiums that sit 90% empty on Friday nights.

Both suffer from declining community support and involvement

Both have suspect coaching staffs.

Both programs are trending down while all others in The MIC, with the exception of LC, are trending up.

Both appear to be in the early stages of long term decline.

 

[Warren05]

8 hours ago, DT said:

This is likely the least consequential and least hyped BD-WC matchup in 25 years.

Both programs have experienced a significant decline in individual talent.

Both have seen massive home game attendance declines in recent years.

Both have huge stadiums that sit 90% empty on Friday nights.

Both suffer from declining community support and involvement

Both have suspect coaching staffs.

Both programs are trending down while all others in The MIC, with the exception of LC, are trending up.

Both appear to be in the early stages of long term decline.

 

Well then I guess no reason to play the game. Heck might as well just end both programs now and save some money. 

[Indiana Fan]

8 hours ago, DT said:

This is likely the least consequential and least hyped BD-WC matchup in 25 years.

Both programs have experienced a significant decline in individual talent.

Both have seen massive home game attendance declines in recent years.

Both have huge stadiums that sit 90% empty on Friday nights.

Both suffer from declining community support and involvement

Both have suspect coaching staffs.

Both programs are trending down while all others in The MIC, with the exception of LC, are trending up.

Both appear to be in the early stages of long term decline.

 

Most of these I agree with, but no way in heck is Warren Central trending down as far as their program goes. Always at the top each year. BD was in the semi state last season. And for you to think Pike and LN are going to surpass Warren and BD because for one season during a pandemic they have lost some early games then you must be going crazy. 

[southend]

3 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

 then you must be going crazy. 

DT crazy!!!!????

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, Indiana Fan said:

Most of these I agree with, but no way in heck is Warren Central trending down as far as their program goes. Always at the top each year. BD was in the semi state last season. And for you to think Pike and LN are going to surpass Warren and BD because for one season during a pandemic they have lost some early games then you must be going crazy. 

I disagree, strongly.  There is no way that you can look at WC and not see that that program has slipped competitively over the past 5 years.

Warren will always win more than they lose because they have solid numbers and good athletes.  What they are missing are the elite level athletes that used to separate the program from other high level programs in the state.  They also dont have the depth in coaching that they had during their glory years 10 to 15 years ago.

WC has produced 1 Big Ten caliber football player in the last 5 years, David Bell.

They used to have several on the same team.

Most would agree that both LN and Pike are improving.  I did not infer that either have passed WC and BD.  Both however have the potential to do so, like North Central is in the process of doing now.

 

[BDGiant93]

2 hours ago, Warren05 said:

Well then I guess no reason to play the game. Heck might as well just end both programs now and save some money. 

Contraction time!

[BDGiant93]

2 hours ago, DT said:

I disagree, strongly.  There is no way that you can look at WC and not see that that program has slipped competitively over the past 5 years.

 

2018 SEASON (14-0)
Coach: Jayson West
Aug. 17	at	Center Grove	W	27	15
Aug. 24	at	Louisville Trinity (Ky.)	W	42	41
Aug. 31	at	North Central (Indianapolis)	W	58	27
Sep. 7		Lawrence Central	W	47	0
Sep. 14		Ben Davis	W	70	27
Sep. 21	at	Pike	W	59	7
Sep. 28		Lawrence North	W	72	25
Oct. 5		Carmel	W	41	17
Oct. 12		Bowling Green (Ky.)	W	62	7
Oct. 26	at	Ben Davis	W	49	28		sect
Nov. 2		Lawrence Central	W	55	7		sect
Nov. 9	at	North Central (Indianapolis)	W	42	32		regn
Nov. 16		Center Grove	W	27	20		semi
Nov. 23	N	Carmel	W	27	7		state

 

Tragic how bad that team was.🙄

[BDGiant93]

5 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

2018 SEASON (14-0)
Coach: Jayson West
Aug. 17	at	Center Grove	W	27	15
Aug. 24	at	Louisville Trinity (Ky.)	W	42	41
Aug. 31	at	North Central (Indianapolis)	W	58	27
Sep. 7		Lawrence Central	W	47	0
Sep. 14		Ben Davis	W	70	27
Sep. 21	at	Pike	W	59	7
Sep. 28		Lawrence North	W	72	25
Oct. 5		Carmel	W	41	17
Oct. 12		Bowling Green (Ky.)	W	62	7
Oct. 26	at	Ben Davis	W	49	28		sect
Nov. 2		Lawrence Central	W	55	7		sect
Nov. 9	at	North Central (Indianapolis)	W	42	32		regn
Nov. 16		Center Grove	W	27	20		semi
Nov. 23	N	Carmel	W	27	7		state

 

Tragic how bad that team was.🙄

H/T to John Harrell for the schedule.

[MICFan34]

2 hours ago, DT said:

I disagree, strongly.  There is no way that you can look at WC and not see that that program has slipped competitively over the past 5 years.

Warren will always win more than they lose because they have solid numbers and good athletes.  What they are missing are the elite level athletes that used to separate the program from other high level programs in the state.  They also dont have the depth in coaching that they had during their glory years 10 to 15 years ago.

WC has produced 1 Big Ten caliber football player in the last 5 years, David Bell.

They used to have several on the same team.

Most would agree that both LN and Pike are improving.  I did not infer that either have passed WC and BD.  Both however have the potential to do so, like North Central is in the process of doing now.

 

BD in the last 6 years: 

Daylan Carnell (SR)-Committed to Mizzou

Keylen Davis (JR)-Multiple Big10 and SEC Offers

Delbert Mimms (2019)- NC State

Dawand Jones (2019)-Ohio State

Broc Thompson (2018)- Marshall

Elijah Ball (2018)- Purdue

Jonny Adams (2018)--Cal

Reese Taylor (2018)-IU

LeShaun Minor (2017) IU

Pompey Coleman (2017)- Mizzou

Chris Evans (2016)-Michigan

Stori Emerson (2016) Miami of OH

Asmar Bilal (2015) ND, just got activated to the Chargers Roster

If that's a downturn in talent, I think 99.5% schools in Indiana would take this. 

 

 

 

[MICFan34]

Warren the last 6 years: 

David Bell (2019)-Purdue

Justin Britt (2019)- Iowa

Julius Brents (2018)- IOWA

Mykelti Williams (2016)- Notre Dame

Warren also had one of the best teams in IN HS history in 2018, that went 14-0 and was ranked #3 in the nation at the end of the season, with several players committing to FCS Schools. 

 

[Indiana Fan]

2 hours ago, DT said:

I disagree, strongly.  There is no way that you can look at WC and not see that that program has slipped competitively over the past 5 years.

Warren will always win more than they lose because they have solid numbers and good athletes.  What they are missing are the elite level athletes that used to separate the program from other high level programs in the state.  They also dont have the depth in coaching that they had during their glory years 10 to 15 years ago.

WC has produced 1 Big Ten caliber football player in the last 5 years, David Bell.

They used to have several on the same team.

Most would agree that both LN and Pike are improving.  I did not infer that either have passed WC and BD.  Both however have the potential to do so, like North Central is in the process of doing now.

 

I guess we will see haha

[Guest DT]

2 hours ago, MICFan34 said:

BD in the last 6 years: 

Daylan Carnell (SR)-Committed to Mizzou

Keylen Davis (JR)-Multiple Big10 and SEC Offers

Delbert Mimms (2019)- NC State

Dawand Jones (2019)-Ohio State

Broc Thompson (2018)- Marshall

Elijah Ball (2018)- Purdue

Jonny Adams (2018)--Cal

Reese Taylor (2018)-IU

LeShaun Minor (2017) IU

Pompey Coleman (2017)- Mizzou

Chris Evans (2016)-Michigan

Stori Emerson (2016) Miami of OH

Asmar Bilal (2015) ND, just got activated to the Chargers Roster

If that's a downturn in talent, I think 99.5% schools in Indiana would take this. 

 

 

 

I primarily look at the Top 50 recruiting Rankings by state.  This is where you will find the elite talent.  

As we are primarilt talking about the current state of both programs, you will find that BD and WC, the two superpowers of Indiana High School football, have a combined 1 player on the Indiana Top 50 List for Class of 21.  Thats a cold, hard fact that supports the thoery and premise that talent is indeed down at both schools.  No other way to spin it.  BD93 probably will give it a try.

Just now, DT said:

I primarily look at the Top 50 recruiting Rankings by state.  This is where you will find the elite talent.  

As we are primarilt talking about the current state of both programs, you will find that BD and WC, the two superpowers of Indiana High School football, have a combined 1 player on the Indiana Top 50 List for Class of 21.  Thats a cold, hard fact that supports the thoery and premise that talent is indeed down at both schools.  No other way to spin it.  BD93 probably will give it a try.

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

[HoosierFB_JG]

14 hours ago, DT said:

This is likely the least consequential and least hyped BD-WC matchup in 25 years.

Maybe yes, but we're in a COVID year.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both programs have experienced a significant decline in individual talent.

Not quite.  Maybe in terms of top 50, but BD has very little seniors this year.  WC will be fine.

 

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both have huge stadiums that sit 90% empty on Friday nights.

90% empty?  That would insinuate they are seeing crowds of 900 people at BD and 800 at WC.  It's not even 90% empty on the worst of nights.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both suffer from declining community support and involvement

No.  Maybe they can't attend the games, but families on the west side are very much involved.  Most families are working 2-3 jobs while communities in Carmel and Greenwood have both parents at home and don't struggle financially.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both have suspect coaching staffs.

Really?  Jayson West, who took both LC and WC to undefeated state championships is suspect.  Jason Simmons, who took BD to within 1 TD of a state finals appearance is suspect.  Many of these coaches were also around for the 2014 and 2017 titles.  Suspect.  Laughable.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both programs are trending down while all others in The MIC, with the exception of LC, are trending up.

I disagree.  Both will be in the top 3 next year, with CG leading the way before they both compete for the title in 2022.

14 hours ago, DT said:

Both appear to be in the early stages of long term decline.

What does this say for my beloved Hounds at Carmel then?  We were beaten 42-0 by CG.  WC only 20-0 and BD 35-12.  I'm not saying you should compare scores, but Carmel received a thorough beating in a rivalry game.  Ouch.

14 hours ago, DT said:

 

 

[Guest DT]

7 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Maybe yes, but we're in a COVID year.

Not quite.  Maybe in terms of top 50, but BD has very little seniors this year.  WC will be fine.

 

90% empty?  That would insinuate they are seeing crowds of 900 people at BD and 800 at WC.  It's not even 90% empty on the worst of nights.

No.  Maybe they can't attend the games, but families on the west side are very much involved.  Most families are working 2-3 jobs while communities in Carmel and Greenwood have both parents at home and don't struggle financially.

Really?  Jayson West, who took both LC and WC to undefeated state championships is suspect.  Jason Simmons, who took BD to within 1 TD of a state finals appearance is suspect.  Many of these coaches were also around for the 2014 and 2017 titles.  Suspect.  Laughable.

I disagree.  Both will be in the top 3 next year, with CG leading the way before they both compete for the title in 2022.

What does this say for my beloved Hounds at Carmel then?  We were beaten 42-0 by CG.  WC only 20-0 and BD 35-12.  I'm not saying you should compare scores, but Carmel received a thorough beating in a rivalry game.  Ouch.

 

I purposely kept Carmel out of this discussion because carmel is the most consistent program year to year in The MIC since the league began play.  Carmels record might vary, but their approach, style, philosophy and competitive nature are the same from year to year.  Carmel always has 2 or 3 kids in the Top 50, regardless of record.  The CG was closer than the 42-0 score would indicate.  I would expect a much closer game if the two square off again.

I apprciate your attempt at lifting up the programs at BD and WC.  They are indeed your conference brothers.  Deep down, im pretty sure you know I am right.  These two programs are not as big and bad as they once were.  COVID or not, free lunches or not, demographics changing or not, the programs are indeed slipping.  Your attempts to prop up the two are more of an attempt to protect the rep of the conference.  It is what it is

[HoosierFB_JG]

1 minute ago, DT said:

I purposely kept Carmel out of this discussion because carmel is the most consistent program year to year in The MIC since the league began play.  Carmels record might vary, but their approach, style, philosophy and competitive nature are the same from year to year.  Carmel always has 2 or 3 kids in the Top 50, regardless of record.  The CG was closer than the 42-0 score would indicate.  I would expect a much closer game if the two square off again.

I apprciate your attempt at lifting up the programs at BD and WC.  They are indeed your conference brothers.  Deep down, im pretty sure you know I am right.  These two programs are not as big and bad as they once were.  COVID or not, free lunches or not, demographics changing or not, the programs are indeed slipping.  Your attempts to prop up the two are more of an attempt to protect the rep of the conference.  It is what it is

I see no reason to change my stance.  BD and WC will be 2-3 next year in the MIC.  In 2022, one of them will win the MIC after CG loses big players to graduation.  I remember hearing the same thing back in 2008 when BD went 5-5 with a first round knockout to Avon, then in 2012 when WC went 5-6.  Both have added state titleS since then and I am fully confident they will both add another in the next few years. 

[Knightmare]

2 hours ago, DT said:

As we are primarilt talking about the current state of both programs, you will find that BD and WC, the two superpowers of Indiana High School football, have a combined 1 player on the Indiana Top 50 List for Class of 21.  Thats a cold, hard fact that supports the thoery and premise that talent is indeed down at both schools.

Just my spin on this.  Is it that the talent is down at BD and WC or is it that kids from these other schools attend more camps and get more exposure?  For example, when was the last time Boonville, Hobart, Mooresville, Floyd Central had a player in the Top 50?  Are kids from BD and WC attending these camps to get noticed by recruiting agencies? 

[Guest DT]

43 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

I see no reason to change my stance.  BD and WC will be 2-3 next year in the MIC.  In 2022, one of them will win the MIC after CG loses big players to graduation.  I remember hearing the same thing back in 2008 when BD went 5-5 with a first round knockout to Avon, then in 2012 when WC went 5-6.  Both have added state titleS since then and I am fully confident they will both add another in the next few years. 

I dont disagree with the idea that both will have good teams and probably win some championships.  My point is that these programs are not producing the same elite talen t they used to.  If they continue to win, it will be because the competition is declining as well.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Knightmare said:

Just my spin on this.  Is it that the talent is down at BD and WC or is it that kids from these other schools attend more camps and get more exposure?  For example, when was the last time Boonville, Hobart, Mooresville, Floyd Central had a player in the Top 50?  Are kids from BD and WC attending these camps to get noticed by recruiting agencies? 

Great point.  Brownsburg has had 6 kids on the list the past two cycles.  I would bet it is due more to exposure than pure talent.

And yes, perhaps city kids are not getting the exposure at camps due to non attendance

[BDGiant93]

Great football game. Giants scored 14 unanswered in the 4th quarter to get the win. I really like what this rivalry has settled into. Competitive and fun. 5-5 over the last 10 meetings.