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Titan32

PAC Conference 2014

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PAC Conference 2014

 

Thoughts?  Dreams?  Rah Rah Fan stuff?

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Appears that everyone will be chasing the Titans for the next 4-6 years.

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Will the Titans reload? If so, how do they get over the semi-state hump?

Being able to control the LoS.

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Unless some of the other teams improve substantially it looks like Gibson Southern  & Southridge  fighting for the title and the rest of the pack playing for 3rd place, Southridge actually loses 17 seniors but if the past is any indication they will just reload with another huge talented Senior class that's waiting for their chance.

 

Tell City was real strong last season and return Brown but lose just about everyone else and  Forest Park and South Spencer both lose around 11 or 12 Seniors and several key players and  If I remember correctly Pike had a really good freshman back but can't remember how many  key senior players the Chargers had.

 

North Posey with only 6 seniors and Heritage Hills with 8 seniors could both be improved  but the Patriots lose their top lineman and their best RB/LB in Konerding the Pats return a bunch of talented skill players but must get stronger on the line if they want to return to the top half of the PAC.

 

 

 

 

P.S.  At the basketball game Friday a Southridge fan held up a sign that  looked  like it said " Lets play football"  All in good fun that kind of thing can be expected while the Pats are in a down spiral in football after  2 decades of dominance over PAC schools, I can remember our students chanting the same thing at a basketball game VS. Jasper when we were riding the long win streak VS. the Wildcatsl.  

Edited by dave mosbey

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Despite 7 first place finishes for the TITANS, Southridge wins the PAC in wrestling by 5 points.  Congrats to Southridge.

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North Posey should improve, if nothing else at least in able bodies. Last year NP had 7 or 8 seniors and 7 or 8 sophomores sandwiching nearly 20 juniors(35ish total.) In 2014 they should have nearly 20 seniors and nearly 20 sophomores with 7 or 8 juniors (46ish hopefully.)

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North Posey should improve, if nothing else at least in able bodies. Last year NP had 7 or 8 seniors and 7 or 8 sophomores sandwiching nearly 20 juniors(35ish total.) In 2014 they should have nearly 20 seniors and nearly 20 sophomores with 7 or 8 juniors (46ish hopefully.)

Could North Posey be the team that makes the biggest jump from 2013?  I believe they tied HH for 5th/6th...or will HH be the comeback story?  Will NP or HH finish top 3 this season?

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Although North Posey's senior class has good numbers, it does not appear to have quality depth. Add that to a small junior class (with limited talent among the few,) the Vikings will have to rely on sophomores to start in potentially many positions and add depth everywhere.

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I still think NP finishes higher than they did last season.

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We are optimistic and hope to really improve, I'm confident Gibson will be better and Southridge will be right there again!

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My concern as we wrap another basketball sectional week is that several factors indicate the PAC is in a serious downward spiral overall athletically.  And when most of the football regular season schedule is PAC vs other PAC intra-conference, you can get an inflated feel for how good anyone is if most of the conference is down. 

 

I mention basketball in that for the 2nd year in a row the PAC has failed to win a single basketball sectional.  The PAC had won at least one basketball sectional every year from 1994 when John Harrell's website started tracking history by team, until 2012 - in fact averaging nearly 2 sectional championships per year for the PAC over many of that period.  Often times basketball players in the PAC are the same guys as some of the key football players.

 

Football mirrors much of the same:  in the 1980's South Spencer, Southridge, & Tell City all made state finals appearances.  North Posey, Heritage Hills, & Tecumseh each won multiple regional championships in the 1990's.  The PAC made 5 state finals appearances in the 2000 decade between Southridge, Heritage Hills, & North Posey.  However when we look at the first 4 years of this decade, we see only 3 sectional championships total, plus 2 regional wins by GS which (though it be painful to admit) were followed by quite lopsided semistate results.  Southridge's win over Mater Dei in that sectional's final last year is really the only significant non-conference win by anyone other than GS in the last 4 seasons that I can see. (next best would perhaps be HH's 2011 win over a 7-4 Jasper team)

 

I think a little bit of false security may have set in based on results from the 1980's --2000's that if you're good in the PAC you'll be good in the tourney.  However it seems during those better decades there was not only one outstanding team to shoot for (usually HH) but more depth from several different schools having really high-quality teams at different times.  HH was still fairly well prepared back then for the 3A tourney even playing a mostly 2A-PAC schedule because there were some really high-quality 2A's in the PAC then.  I'm not sure I see that many high-quality 2A teams anymore.  Yes, SR and NP were both strong in 2012 and got beat by a what was considered a good MD team, though that MD team lost by 5 td's in semistate.  Someone above mentions Tell City as being strong last year, but (and nothing against TC) I didn't see them as anywhere near a state-finals caliber 2A team.

 

Everyone in the PAC will benefit if everybody else in the PAC steps up their games.  If every PAC game is a non-blowout, it benefits the better teams who can play the starters and run their normal offense for 4 qtrs, and it benefits the lesser teams who maintain confidence/morale and staffs who don't give up on senior classes to always be building for a future year.

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My concern as we wrap another basketball sectional week is that several factors indicate the PAC is in a serious downward spiral overall athletically.  And when most of the football regular season schedule is PAC vs other PAC intra-conference, you can get an inflated feel for how good anyone is if most of the conference is down. 

 

I mention basketball in that for the 2nd year in a row the PAC has failed to win a single basketball sectional.  The PAC had won at least one basketball sectional every year from 1994 when John Harrell's website started tracking history by team, until 2012 - in fact averaging nearly 2 sectional championships per year for the PAC over many of that period.  Often times basketball players in the PAC are the same guys as some of the key football players.

 

Football mirrors much of the same:  in the 1980's South Spencer, Southridge, & Tell City all made state finals appearances.  North Posey, Heritage Hills, & Tecumseh each won multiple regional championships in the 1990's.  The PAC made 5 state finals appearances in the 2000 decade between Southridge, Heritage Hills, & North Posey.  However when we look at the first 4 years of this decade, we see only 3 sectional championships total, plus 2 regional wins by GS which (though it be painful to admit) were followed by quite lopsided semistate results.  Southridge's win over Mater Dei in that sectional's final last year is really the only significant non-conference win by anyone other than GS in the last 4 seasons that I can see. (next best would perhaps be HH's 2011 win over a 7-4 Jasper team)

 

I think a little bit of false security may have set in based on results from the 1980's --2000's that if you're good in the PAC you'll be good in the tourney.  However it seems during those better decades there was not only one outstanding team to shoot for (usually HH) but more depth from several different schools having really high-quality teams at different times.  HH was still fairly well prepared back then for the 3A tourney even playing a mostly 2A-PAC schedule because there were some really high-quality 2A's in the PAC then.  I'm not sure I see that many high-quality 2A teams anymore.  Yes, SR and NP were both strong in 2012 and got beat by a what was considered a good MD team, though that MD team lost by 5 td's in semistate.  Someone above mentions Tell City as being strong last year, but (and nothing against TC) I didn't see them as anywhere near a state-finals caliber 2A team.

 

Everyone in the PAC will benefit if everybody else in the PAC steps up their games.  If every PAC game is a non-blowout, it benefits the better teams who can play the starters and run their normal offense for 4 qtrs, and it benefits the lesser teams who maintain confidence/morale and staffs who don't give up on senior classes to always be building for a future year.

Its true we had some great teams in the 2000s in the PAC but when H Hills was on their run from 1999- 2007 when they went undefeated in the PAC 9 straight years most of the conference games were blowouts even against state finalists.We only lost one regular season game from 1999 - 2007 and that was to non-conference foe Vincennes  and most of the close games during that stretch were against Jasper and/or Vincennes of the Big Eight. Southridges 2002 state runner-up was beaten 42-0 by HH, their 06 runner-up was beaten 26-0 by HH and North Posey's 05 state runner-up lost to HH 48-6. 

 

 

Anyway that was a great run but its in the past after the last couple of years my goal for next season is 5-4 or 6-3 just start winning again and build back the program.

Edited by dave mosbey

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Again, the people I know who played football at HH, SS, Southridge, Tell City simply have found jobs in metro areas and haven't moved their families back to the area. Maybe that will change, but I don't see it happening anytime soon -- economy has to improve locally and nationally.

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Tell city football program just took a big hit yesterday. Head football coach Ryan George resigned from tell city. He and his family are moving. That's understandable, but just when we got back up on our feet we get knocked down again.

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Tell city football program just took a big hit yesterday. Head football coach Ryan George resigned from tell city. He and his family are moving. That's understandable, but just when we got back up on our feet we get knocked down again.

Tough loss...especially after losing a class that has pretty much started all 4 years, and has gotten to know each other so well on the field

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nwsecond2 paints a much more bleak picture than I would....I don't buy most of the argument (economics has shrunken the enrollment for many schools in rural conferences..I do buy that).  I think the larger more valid argument is the ability of the Southern part of the state being able to compete with INDY metro area schools come tournament time.  In football last year the SIAC, PAC and Big 8 each had their top couple schools pretty much on par with each other....what else can you ask for?  The Southern part of the state in general needs to "step it up" come tournament time.  As far as basketball, the paradigm shift as been that schools 3A and below in rural conferences are having their top athletes participate less and less in both sports over the decades mentioned in the threads above.  You have seen a shift at HH toward basketball, a shift at GS toward football for example.  It will be very difficult for 3A programs and below to be successful in both sports simultaneously without sharing athletes.

Edited by Titan32
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  You have seen a shift at HH toward basketball, a shift at GS toward football for example.  It will be very difficult for 3A programs and below to be successful in both sports simultaneously without sharing athletes.

At Heritage Hills this past season we had both examples had a couple of players quit football and continued to play basketball but another that quit basketball to concentrate on football. 

 

Of the 7 seniors on the basketball team this season only one played football but had a couple that previously played football in high school.Next season will be interesting however of the 12 sophomores and Juniors  on the Patriot basketball team  this year 10 also played football this season.

 

What troubles me the most is at HH we had 7 senior basketball players  compared to 9 Senior football players and if you look at middle school we had only 41 total 7th and 8th graders play football and 35 play basketball.

Edited by dave mosbey

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Here's a quick quiz:

 

Which school is the defending 3A basketball champ, and looking to repeat this week?

 

What does Greensburg and southern Gibson county have in common?

 

 

P.S. I know we've discussed this before- so let me get out the stick and make sure the horse is really dead. :)

But economics matter- whether it be with coaching, facilities, community pride, etc. .

Southern Indiana in general - Vincennes, Tell City, & Mt. Vernon are all examples of communities that pale in comparison to their heydays.  And Pike County - well it never had a heyday.

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Here's a quick quiz:

 

Which school is the defending 3A basketball champ, and looking to repeat this week?

 

What does Greensburg and southern Gibson county have in common?

 

 

P.S. I know we've discussed this before- so let me get out the stick and make sure the horse is really dead. :)

But economics matter- whether it be with coaching, facilities, community pride, etc. .

Southern Indiana in general - Vincennes, Tell City, & Mt. Vernon are all examples of communities that pale in comparison to their heydays.  And Pike County - well it never had a heyday.

Greensburgh was Sagarin ranked at 182 at the conclusion of football.  They are currently number 6 in Basketball....does anyone know how many of their basketball athletes play football and vice versa?

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nwsecond2 paints a much more bleak picture than I would....I don't buy most of the argument (economics has shrunken the enrollment for many schools in rural conferences..I do buy that).  I think the larger more valid argument is the ability of the Southern part of the state being able to compete with INDY metro area schools come tournament time.  In football last year the SIAC, PAC and Big 8 each had their top couple schools pretty much on par with each other....what else can you ask for?  The Southern part of the state in general needs to "step it up" come tournament time.  As far as basketball, the paradigm shift as been that schools 3A and below in rural conferences are having their top athletes participate less and less in both sports over the decades mentioned in the threads above.  You have seen a shift at HH toward basketball, a shift at GS toward football for example.  It will be very difficult for 3A programs and below to be successful in both sports simultaneously without sharing athletes.

I think we agree in content.  Yes, the big-picture valid argument is that the southern part of the state is currently not at all competitive with the Indpls-area schools come tournament time.  I will say also though that the northern part of the state hasn't been on par with the Indpls area either, yet they get a bit of a pass perception-wise because they don't usually meet an Indpls-area school until the state finals - whereas we in the South face Indy in semistate, sometimes even regionals.  But as far as South vs Indy, it hasn't always been as bad as it's been the last few years.  That's why I paint the scenario bleak as it stands now.

 

During the not-so-distant past years of 1994-2011, the SIAC had 10 state finals appearances from 5 different conference schools.  Add to that the PAC appearances mentioned above plus Jasper and Perry Central, SW Indiana in all made 19 state finals appearances in those 18 years.  Those 19 appearances involved beating an Indpls-area school to get there, e.g. Ben Davis, Cathedral, Carmel, Chatard, Roncalli, Zionsville, etc - sometimes it took 2 such wins.  The record in the state finals wasn't necessarily great as oftentimes during that span the northern Indiana rep proved more formidable than the Indpls opponents did, but nonetheless we in SW Indiana became used to representation in the state finals most every year during recent memory, sometimes with two local teams.

 

Fast-forward to the last 2-3 years.  Columbus East has won the 4A regional the last 3 years over Jasper, Reitz, & Central respectively by a combined score of 126-21.  Two of those three years CE then lost in semistate 21-111 which shows how far off the 4A SW Indiana teams have been from state.  In 3A, southern Indiana gets a team to semistate each year because all 16 teams (except perhaps Indian Creek some alignment years) are in southern IN.  But in the first encounter with an Indpls school, Chatard & Brebeuf have combined to outscore southern reps GS and Corydon 133-27.  2A much the same with Paoli and Mater Dei losing 49-16 and 49-14 the last 2 seasons.  What I think is most disconcerting is that in 7 of these 8 instances mentioned, the winning central Indiana team had at least 1, sometimes 2-3, closer or just-as-close games in their sectionals as they did when they faced the southern IN team later in the tourney - that likely means that we're not experiencing blowouts simply because of one isolated central IN powerhouse team per class but perhaps that 3,4,5 central IN teams in each class would be capable of blowing out our southern teams and by virtue of the system we're just fortunate to be advancing by playing other southern teams while they knock each other out earlier on.

 

And yes I agree that we're seeing a shift in participation where boys are gravitating toward specialization instead of multi-sports.  But I'd think then that we'd see some really good football teams and some really good basketball teams.  But again, basketball seems way down.  The last two years we've seen the SW Indiana rep in 2A, 3A, & 4A lose the first game in the tourney they faced someone from outside of SW Indiana.

 

It pains me to portray such a bleak picture because I'm an old guy who's rooted for whoever the SW Indiana teams are in every sport to do well come tourney time for many years.  But you're right - it's time to STEP IT UP and become more competitive in the tourney.  It's been achieved vs Indpls in the recent past and with the right attitude, desire, work, etc can be re-achieved in the future.  Don't be content with conference and sectional championships as those don't mean much if no one in the conference or sectional is very good.  AIM HIGHER!

Edited by nwsecond2

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Greensburgh was Sagarin ranked at 182 at the conclusion of football.  They are currently number 6 in Basketball....does anyone know how many of their basketball athletes play football and vice versa?

I do not know about football involvement, but do know that one of Greensburg's starting five is going to IU on a baseball scholarship and another starter is going to Ball State on a tennis scholarship, so they're not basketball-only specialists.  I understand the other 3 will all receive Div I basketball scholarships either this year or next, and I believe that's the only five guys that get much playing time.  It sounds like a once-a-generation group but I've also heard one of the best players is very old for his class, and there may be a move-in or something...other factors that can sometimes give an edge to an already strong class.

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