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Sectional 40 Final: (7-4) Mater Dei @ (8-3) Linton


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5 minutes ago, Cappy said:

I don't know of a time that siblings went to NP and MD and the better athlete came to NP. 

What happens a lot is that there are kids that get the benefit of playing in Mater Dei feeder leagues and Mater Dei travel(all star) basketball teams, all the while knowing that they will be going to North Posey.  So these kids not only get all the coaching resources, but they are probably blocking a kid that would otherwise make the team and attend Mater Dei.  I'm just saying this stuff goes both ways.

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35 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I totally get and appreciate the old school mentality.   But will also say, 75 dressed on a 2a roster is HUGE.  You rarely see that many at the majority of 2A schools.   I believe coaching has a lot to do with a program being successful regardless of their numbers.   Some of the things you have mentioned about MD you could also say the same about Linton.  The biggest difference is the numbers and that I guess will never change.  Bigger area, bigger numbers even if you have to fight other schools for them.  It isn't that MD is the only school getting these kids.   But it is the opportunity they have (just like the other schools) to sign them.  They are going to get some of them.

Numbers definitely don't hurt. I haven't witnessed 75 dressed for Mater Dei. They may dress more now that their freshman season is over. I don't think the playing rotation is that much different than other 2A teams. They have kids going both ways.  When a program is successful, especially in a smaller school, everyone wants to be a part of it. I know when I was at Castle in the late 80s, we had kids that went to brutal practices/conditioning every day, including summer two-a-days in the scorching heat, knowing that they weren't going to see the field even as seniors. They still wanted to wear the jersey in the hallways and be able to say they were part of the team and were willing to pay their dues to be able to do that. Of course Castle was also more "blue collar" in those days with a lot of kids from Amax, Alcoa, Whirlpool, farming or other similar backgrounds. 

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21 minutes ago, Spitting Llamas said:

What you don't understand is that none of them go to MD for football. Some go to MD and play football. Football isn't the reason they attend Mater Dei. I hate to say it, but if you were going to go to an Evansville school solely to play football, it wouldn't be Mater Dei. They go for the education and because their grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles all did. 

Think how that looks to an outsider.  Some of them STILL go to MD and play football yet NONE of them go to MD for football?   So the ones who play football decide to play AFTER they get to MD?  Sorry I don't buy that.   Maybe some decide after they get there but NOT all.   I get that it's a tradition with some families and why they would attend school there.  But MD is going to get their share of football players.   It isn't just a coincidence they end up there.  That sounds like someone trying to sell "something".  I originally started this conversation by saying MD gets an edge in numbers due to the amount of feeder systems.   You can't change numbers.   They are always going to be there.  Oh sure they will go up and down depending on the population change.    But in 2018, Evansville's population was 117,000+.  And yes those aren't all parochial type citizens and yes you have to share with other private schools.   I get that.  But the chances go up that you will get more the more people that live there.   Try starting a private school in a town with only 5,000.  Not gonna happen.

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12 minutes ago, South Paw said:

Numbers definitely don't hurt. I haven't witnessed 75 dressed for Mater Dei. They may dress more now that their freshman season is over. I don't think the playing rotation is that much different than other 2A teams. They have kids going both ways.  When a program is successful, especially in a smaller school, everyone wants to be a part of it. I know when I was at Castle in the late 80s, we had kids that went to brutal practices/conditioning every day, including summer two-a-days in the scorching heat, knowing that they weren't goinFg to see the field even as seniors. They still wanted to wear the jersey in the hallways and be able to say they were part of the team and were willing to pay their dues to be able to do that. Of course Castle was also more "blue collar" in those days with a lot of kids from Amax, Alcoa, Whirlpool, farming or other similar backgrounds. 

Okay so you get what I'm saying about the numbers.   It can and does make a difference.   Freshman season?  What's that?   Most 2A schools don't have enough to make a freshman team.   My old high school in Ohio had a freshman team, a JV team and a varsity team.  But we had 1200+ students.  It was weird moving to Linton after I retired from the Navy and seeing such a smaller school with football.  At my old high school it was a HUGE deal for JV players to get picked to dress with the varsity on Friday night and IF you saw the field in mop up time well it was like being made king for a night.   Freshmen NEVER dressed with the Varsity.   Here, JV get to play a lot including freshmen during  mop up time on Friday nights.   At least they do at Linton.image.thumb.png.7717044f2145e0555d966e6e52ae9973.png

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7 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Think how that looks to an outsider.  Some of them STILL go to MD and play football yet NONE of them go to MD for football?   So the ones who play football decide to play AFTER they get to MD?  Sorry I don't buy that.   Maybe some decide after they get there but NOT all.   I get that it's a tradition with some families and why they would attend school there.  But MD is going to get their share of football players.   It isn't just a coincidence they end up there.  That sounds like someone trying to sell "something".  I originally started this conversation by saying MD gets an edge in numbers due to the amount of feeder systems.   You can't change numbers.   They are always going to be there.  Oh sure they will go up and down depending on the population change.    But in 2018, Evansville's population was 117,000+.  And yes those aren't all parochial type citizens and yes you have to share with other private schools.   I get that.  But the chances go up that you will get more the more people that live there.   Try starting a private school in a town with only 5,000.  Not gonna happen.

I am going to agree with Spitting Llamas on this one. If a kid is going to go to a high school in the Evansville metro area primarily to play football, Mater Dei would be down on the list. I think Central, North, Castle, Memorial and Reitz would typically be schools looked at before MD. MD is very good, but not a state football powerhouse like Cathedral and Roncalli. Central and Memorial have had the most recent success in the Evansville area. Mater Dei has very good years and some mediocre years, but is not a consistent juggernaut in the area. The tuition is also something that inhibits a lot of people. It's not cheap. The school and learning environment is exceptional and provides opportunity for a lot more faith and character-based learning experience than you can get in a public school. That's not bashing public schools, but that is something they frankly can't offer due to the limitations placed on them by society. Smaller class sizes are a plus compared to a large public school. Faculty seems more engaged and invested in the success of their students. That's why people choose somewhere like Mater Dei. You're looking to give your kid a certain positively structured environment and academic experience. If they also play sports and can be very competitive, that's icing on the cake.

 

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43 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Think how that looks to an outsider.  Some of them STILL go to MD and play football yet NONE of them go to MD for football?   So the ones who play football decide to play AFTER they get to MD?  Sorry I don't buy that.   Maybe some decide after they get there but NOT all.   I get that it's a tradition with some families and why they would attend school there.  But MD is going to get their share of football players.   It isn't just a coincidence they end up there.  That sounds like someone trying to sell "something".  I originally started this conversation by saying MD gets an edge in numbers due to the amount of feeder systems.   You can't change numbers.   They are always going to be there.  Oh sure they will go up and down depending on the population change.    But in 2018, Evansville's population was 117,000+.  And yes those aren't all parochial type citizens and yes you have to share with other private schools.   I get that.  But the chances go up that you will get more the more people that live there.   Try starting a private school in a town with only 5,000.  Not gonna happen.

I don't have the roster in front of me, but there are only a few kids on the team that didn't have family attend MD.  All these kids grew up in the MD feeder leagues.  They did not choose MD just to play football.  That's what you aren't understanding.  These kids grew up wanting to wear the red/gold, but they would still be attending MD even if there was no football because that is where their parents, aunt/uncles and grandparents all went.

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I agree that it can. I don't agree that it definitely does. I think there's a lot that goes into that. Talent, attitude and work ethic are big factors. Give me 25-30 kids with decent talent and work ethic against 3 talented kids and 50 mediocre kids with questionable work ethic or attitudes, and I will win 95% of the time. Obviously MD has figured out how to compete with schools that have bigger rosters. I think there can also be advantages to being smaller. More opportunity for chemistry. More focused coaching on specific player development. Less wasted time in practice. Depth and injuries would be the main concerns with a smaller roster.

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22 minutes ago, South Paw said:

I agree that it can. I don't agree that it definitely does. I think there's a lot that goes into that. Talent, attitude and work ethic are big factors. Give me 25-30 kids with decent talent and work ethic against 3 talented kids and 50 mediocre kids with questionable work ethic or attitudes, and I will win 95% of the time. Obviously MD has figured out how to compete with schools that have bigger rosters. I think there can also be advantages to being smaller. More opportunity for chemistry. More focused coaching on specific player development. Less wasted time in practice. Depth and injuries would be the main concerns with a smaller roster.

But depth and injuries are of no concern to MD because they always have the numbers.   You know saying that you have a better work ethic or a better attitude is hogwash.   There are lots of teams with a great work ethic and attitudes.   You get no argument from me that MD can compete with bigger schools.  Their SOS and record against that SOS is a fact and proves they can.   All I have been saying is they get more numbers than most other 2A programs.   You dress 75 for cripes sake!  Pretty dang impressive for a 2A school and even some 3A and 4A schools.

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

I lived in Greene county briefly in the late 1980's when their were 7 high schools.  WRV didn't exist and instead you had Central (Switz City), L&M, and Worthington.   Those were the days:

https://vault.si.com/vault/1985/02/18/back-home-in-indiana

 

Oh indeed.. that basketball sectional at Switz City Central was THE place to be.. for a variety of reasons as a kid!!  I played Worthington, L&M, Central... of course Shakamak, Eastern Greene and Bloomfield as  Miner basketball player.  and many other schools no longer on the map.  Linton was always the only Football school til Eastern kicked in I think in 2003?  Jasonville had a team of course.. the Yellow Jackets... way back.. supposedly had the first night game?? they tried to revive it a few years back with a community team... but didn't take.  Bloomfield had a solid backing of football from a contigent... even to the point of someone going to finance the cost of equipment etc... .but it got snuffed quickly by school board and admin.  WRV as well...but I don't think it really ever had a chance just on the numbers alone.  So yeah...if you are a kid who loves playing football, and has the parental support to do so....you made the decision to drive the 5-8 miles and go to Linton.  The Dugger situation was that the school shut down... kids were supposed to go to Farmersburg (North Central)... but more had no desire. They were physically closer to Shakamak, Sullivan, North Knox and especially Linton... just a couple miles east.   Yeah Dugger became a charter school.. and continued football... but on a much smaller level. 

I knew all those L&M kids...played against them as well.  I knew Clyde Hostettor as well! 

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51 minutes ago, South Paw said:

I am going to agree with Spitting Llamas on this one. If a kid is going to go to a high school in the Evansville metro area primarily to play football, Mater Dei would be down on the list. I think Central, North, Castle, Memorial and Reitz would typically be schools looked at before MD. MD is very good, but not a state football powerhouse like Cathedral and Roncalli. Central and Memorial have had the most recent success in the Evansville area. Mater Dei has very good years and some mediocre years, but is not a consistent juggernaut in the area. The tuition is also something that inhibits a lot of people. It's not cheap. The school and learning environment is exceptional and provides opportunity for a lot more faith and character-based learning experience than you can get in a public school. That's not bashing public schools, but that is something they frankly can't offer due to the limitations placed on them by society. Smaller class sizes are a plus compared to a large public school. Faculty seems more engaged and invested in the success of their students. That's why people choose somewhere like Mater Dei. You're looking to give your kid a certain positively structured environment and academic experience. If they also play sports and can be very competitive, that's icing on the cake.

 

I definitely see this argument.  If you are a kid thinking he has a legit shot at a D1 scholarship... and that's his/her total focus... I do think you would be looking at bigger schools because of the spotlight and because the success and state wide attention Memorial, Central, Reitz (normally!), Castle and North to an extent of late.   I can definitely see the historical factor with families long ties with Mater Dei.   I have no doubt at all the educational side and learning environment are top notch. 

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38 minutes ago, Wildcat1992 said:

I don't have the roster in front of me, but there are only a few kids on the team that didn't have family attend MD.  All these kids grew up in the MD feeder leagues.  They did not choose MD just to play football.  That's what you aren't understanding.  These kids grew up wanting to wear the red/gold, but they would still be attending MD even if there was no football because that is where their parents, aunt/uncles and grandparents all went.

No I understand that kids want to go where their parents/family members did.   And it's just a coincidence that some of them happen to play football (but so many?).   Sorry you can tell I am STILL not buying it.  You get your numbers even having to share with other schools.   It is what it is.  Other schools need to figure out a way to get around that imbalance if that's even possible. 

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9 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

But depth and injuries are of no concern to MD because they always have the numbers.   You know saying that you have a better work ethic or a better attitude is hogwash.   There are lots of teams with a great work ethic and attitudes.   You get no argument from me that MD can compete with bigger schools.  Their SOS and record against that SOS is a fact and proves they can.   All I have been saying is they get more numbers than most other 2A programs.   You dress 75 for cripes sake!  Pretty dang impressive for a 2A school and even some 3A and 4A schools.

I think injuries would still be of concern.. particularly with a kid who is very talented.  I would think the numbers would help in having that pool to replace an injured player. I'm sure there are 2nd teamers at MD who could start at other 2A schools.  Where as in Linton it's not unusual at all to have sophomores and on occasion a freshman start simply because there aren't numbers... not saying they aren't very good freshmen or sophomores.  In fact I see 3 sophs  starting on Offense at MD.... like Linton...both QBs are sophs.  Both teams have a soph starting on Defense as well. 

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1 minute ago, Miner_Pride said:

I think injuries would still be of concern.. particularly with a kid who is very talented.  I would think the numbers would help in having that pool to replace an injured player. I'm sure there are 2nd teamers at MD who could start at other 2A schools.  Where as in Linton it's not unusual at all to have sophomores and on occasion a freshman start simply because there aren't numbers... not saying they aren't very good freshmen or sophomores.  In fact I see 3 sophs  starting on Offense at MD.... like Linton...both QBs are sophs.  Both teams have a soph starting on Defense as well. 

75 - 42?  Who usually wins that "fight"?  As I said, they have their numbers and why they can be successful against some of the bigger schools.   When you are only looking for 22 starters, having 75 to choose from is a big advantage over  most other schools, even some bigger classes.   I get they play one of the toughest SOS in all of 2A but they are best prepared to play that SOS than most 2A teams.   And yeah I get they have a great head coach but it starts with the numbers.   MD has them.  Anyone else in 2A with a bigger roster?

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13 minutes ago, Miner_Pride said:

I think injuries would still be of concern.. particularly with a kid who is very talented.  I would think the numbers would help in having that pool to replace an injured player. I'm sure there are 2nd teamers at MD who could start at other 2A schools.  Where as in Linton it's not unusual at all to have sophomores and on occasion a freshman start simply because there aren't numbers... not saying they aren't very good freshmen or sophomores.  In fact I see 3 sophs  starting on Offense at MD.... like Linton...both QBs are sophs.  Both teams have a soph starting on Defense as well. 

They have lots of talented sophomore's...According to one of their fans @ the Lincoln game...one of the best classes to come through so far...we were off that week and went and watched them.

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7 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

75 - 42?  Who usually wins that "fight"?  As I said, they have their numbers and why they can be successful against some of the bigger schools.   When you are only looking for 22 starters, having 75 to choose from is a big advantage over  most other schools, even some bigger classes.   I get they play one of the toughest SOS in all of 2A but they are best prepared to play that SOS than most 2A teams.   And yeah I get they have a great head coach but it starts with the numbers.   MD has them.  Anyone else in 2A with a bigger roster?

I think what would make more sense is to compare the number of football players to total enrollment in the school.  You act like Mater Dei has 1500 students.  Mater Dei has 492 kids.  Linton has 391.

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6 minutes ago, Uncle Rico said:

I think what would make more sense is to compare the number of football players to total enrollment in the school.  You act like Mater Dei has 1500 students.  Mater Dei has 492 kids.  Linton has 391.

@Titan32always has an interesting take on PP enrollment numbers...

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2 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Think how that looks to an outsider.  Some of them STILL go to MD and play football yet NONE of them go to MD for football?   So the ones who play football decide to play AFTER they get to MD?  Sorry I don't buy that.   Maybe some decide after they get there but NOT all.   I get that it's a tradition with some families and why they would attend school there.  But MD is going to get their share of football players.   It isn't just a coincidence they end up there.  That sounds like someone trying to sell "something".  I originally started this conversation by saying MD gets an edge in numbers due to the amount of feeder systems.   You can't change numbers.   They are always going to be there.  Oh sure they will go up and down depending on the population change.    But in 2018, Evansville's population was 117,000+.  And yes those aren't all parochial type citizens and yes you have to share with other private schools.   I get that.  But the chances go up that you will get more the more people that live there.   Try starting a private school in a town with only 5,000.  Not gonna happen.

What I'm saying is that there isn't a student at Mater Dei who went there solely for the reason to play football. Period

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4 hours ago, Miner_Pride said:

I know there are always a couple kids Linton picks up locally because we have football and there school does not in high school.  I think that happens in rural communities where a kid loves football and his school doesn't offer it...and one nearby does.  But it isn't a case of scouring the county in junior high looking for entice young kids to come to Linton for football purposes.  THey aren't leaving football schools either. 

 

That’s what North Vermilions did when Junior Martins ran the youth league. Get em before 9th grade and nothing can be done. I swear to God they did!

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11 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

75 - 42?  Who usually wins that "fight"?  As I said, they have their numbers and why they can be successful against some of the bigger schools.   When you are only looking for 22 starters, having 75 to choose from is a big advantage over  most other schools, even some bigger classes.   I get they play one of the toughest SOS in all of 2A but they are best prepared to play that SOS than most 2A teams.   And yeah I get they have a great head coach but it starts with the numbers.   MD has them.  Anyone else in 2A with a bigger roster?

I definitely get your take...  it is nearly double.   Take away the 12 frosh and it's still 63.   Linton has 12 freshman too who play on special teams.    I am sure both teams have kids not dressed for one reason or another... at this point injuries or quarantine issues.   I know Linton is down 3... hopefully not 4 or more!    Looks like enrollment wise Mater Dei is 19th in 2A... Linton is 49th.   I'd be interested in Luers roster... or say Andrean.. .who is 42nd in 2A enrollment wise...

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46 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

But depth and injuries are of no concern to MD because they always have the numbers.   You know saying that you have a better work ethic or a better attitude is hogwash.   There are lots of teams with a great work ethic and attitudes.   You get no argument from me that MD can compete with bigger schools.  Their SOS and record against that SOS is a fact and proves they can.   All I have been saying is they get more numbers than most other 2A programs.   You dress 75 for cripes sake!  Pretty dang impressive for a 2A school and even some 3A and 4A schools.

You assume that depth equals the 2nd string kid at that position comes in and performs at the same level of the kid that got injured. Injuries are always a concern for every team. Not too many teams have at any position a 2nd stringer that is just as good as the 1st stringer, unless the coach is misjudging talent or playing a favorite. I absolutely believe that attitude and work ethic can best talent in a team sport. I've seen it too many times. I used to watch Bob Knight and IU do it in basketball for years. Maybe I should have added mental toughness, conditioning, and preparation to the list. Quality is more important than quantity any day. There are plenty of games, fights and battles throughout the course of history where a team or smaller force defeated and larger one.

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6 minutes ago, Miner_Pride said:

I definitely get your take...  it is nearly double.   Take away the 12 frosh and it's still 63.   Linton has 12 freshman too who play on special teams.    I am sure both teams have kids not dressed for one reason or another... at this point injuries or quarantine issues.   I know Linton is down 3... hopefully not 4 or more!    Looks like enrollment wise Mater Dei is 19th in 2A... Linton is 49th.   I'd be interested in Luers roster... or say Andrean.. .who is 42nd in 2A enrollment wise...

Yes that is not all the freshman football players at Mater Dei.  I believe the freshman team had around 25 kids.

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Bottom line... we have to compete.  Linton has to line up and play football to the best of out ability.  It isn't going to make any difference how many red n gold uni's are lined up on that sideline.. it gonna be the one across from you on the field... the other 10 against 10.  I'll agree that over all quantity does not necessarily mean over all quality.  You can't put a number on heart, effort and determination.  This is week 12, and we are still.. will still I hope... playing football this Friday night.  The weather looks to be outstanding.  This is all we can ask for is the opportunity to play in a game like this.  I'll never forget seeing Ritter run on the field at Linton back in our 1A days in a semi state...and thinking holy moly... how many can there be for a 1A School.   But we fought them twice in those days to the wire.  Mater Dei has great tradition, and I respect that tradition...and the fact they battle a hell of a schedule year in and out and are almost always in the discussion in the SIAC and beyond.  We simply have to win a game like this to move up the ladder.  We've not been competitive in any of the 3 games I know of... and the last two I have seen first hand from the broadcast booth.  If we give it our best shot, and can eliminate the mistakes along the way... I will be proud of my Miners.  But it's gonna take 4 solid quarters of making plays, and not helping Mater Dei... tackling, making catches, and I think getting some pressure on the QB is important. 

6 minutes ago, Uncle Rico said:

Yes that is not all the freshman football players at Mater Dei.  I believe the freshman team had around 25 kids.

those must be the lucky ones who get to dress for post-season...  i bet that's a big honor too. 

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5 minutes ago, Miner_Pride said:

I definitely get your take...  it is nearly double.   Take away the 12 frosh and it's still 63.   Linton has 12 freshman too who play on special teams.    I am sure both teams have kids not dressed for one reason or another... at this point injuries or quarantine issues.   I know Linton is down 3... hopefully not 4 or more!    Looks like enrollment wise Mater Dei is 19th in 2A... Linton is 49th.   I'd be interested in Luers roster... or say Andrean.. .who is 42nd in 2A enrollment wise...

According to Maxpreps, Luers has 76 and Andrean has 67. It lists MD at 64. Southridge that bumped to 3A only carries 48. Looks like Southridge has found the magic potion. 

I get the numbers argument on the surface. I just won't agree that numbers guarantee anything. I think a team with 40 kids can beat a team with 60, 80, or 100 kids depending on the makeup of both teams.

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2 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

But depth and injuries are of no concern to MD because they always have the numbers.   

This is factually incorrect, sorry.  Depth & injuries are always a concern at MD just like they are at all other schools. Numbers do always equal talent, obviously.  Certainly, the greater the numbers the more chance there is of a good player to replace a great one but numbers, in and of themselves, do not solve all ills.  

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5 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Oh I wasn't suggesting that MD was holding down their enrollment for athletics.   It is just a bit mind numbing when you say, "8 feeder schools" vice only one.   I can imagine the "recruiting" that goes on between the private schools to get those players from the 12 - 15 or 25 - 30 kids.   I can imagine part of it is $$ and part of it is which school will give my kid the best education, besides the athletics.  Still the numbers are much bigger for even one private school than a public school.   And yes I know it was posted that some go to a public school.   I can imagine that has ONLY to do with the sports.

The only "non-public" schools that exist in Evansville are the two catholic schools, Mater Dei & Memorial, Evansville Day School - a true private school ($$$), and Evansville Christian School, which opened 3-4 yrs ago.  What people cannot seem to grasp - or simply don't want to - about the "recruiting" situation btwn these schools is there really isn't any to speak of. There is a lot of family tradition and territorial loyalty that exist among Mater Dei & Memorial famlies.

Generally, kids who grow up on the East side and attend the east deanery schools, attend Memorial.  Kids from the west side and west deanery school, generally attend Mater Dei.  I say "generally" because there are a number of kids, esp on the west side, who leave the catholic feeder schools to attend Reitz.  Academically, Reitz is a very well-regarded school, easily on par with MD with none of the extra cost. That is a factor for some families.  Rarely do west side kids end up at Memorial or vice versa. 

As an example, Paul McIntosh, the great QB of what are considered to be some of the best Reitz teams ever, was a west side catholic feeder school kid who could have gone to MD but chose RHS.  It is rare for kids who attended EVSC grade schools to attend MD.  It does happen, but very rarely.  I say this as a past member of the Evv Catholic School Board, privy to the numbers from all school across the Diocese & EVSC.

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