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CoachM04

Spread'em & Shreddem or Ground and Pound ?

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Figured I would try to get some conversation going:

 

What is the most fun thing about watching football? Is there an offense that is more fun? Whether they run over you, around you, or just bomb it the whole game...What is the thing that makes football the most or more entertaining to watch?

 

I definitely want to know what the high school football fans think on this issue. Are there certain teams that are more fun to watch than others?

 

 

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There are three things that can happen when your throw the football, and two of them are bad.

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There are three things that can happen when your throw the football, and two of them are bad.

^

this must be the reason the NFL is a passing league and the first running back didnt go til the 50th + pick.

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In high school.......ground and pound

 

In College and NFL............Spread and shred

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^

this must be the reason the NFL is a passing league and the first running back didnt go til the 50th + pick.

Is this a high school or NFL football forum?

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In high school.......ground and pound

 

In College and NFL............Spread and shred

How about... Use what works with what you have?

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Figured I would try to get some conversation going:

 

What is the most fun thing about watching football? Is there an offense that is more fun? Whether they run over you, around you, or just bomb it the whole game...What is the thing that makes football the most or more entertaining to watch?

 

I definitely want to know what the high school football fans think on this issue. Are there certain teams that are more fun to watch than others?

Someone must be an OC :lol:  What is most fun does not have a hard hitting defense as an choice here????? Watching a fast and physical defense is what is fun to watch in my opinion. As for the "other" choices, it is a toss up. If a team is a "chuck and duck" offense, it usually means our offense gets lots of chances to score. The "fat and slow" running games get us home much faster on Friday nights; meaning more refreshments and more time for them :lol:

DWC

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Spreading the field by formation makes it easier to pound the rock right at the defense. Call it spread'em and pound'em. To automatically associate an offense that uses spread formations with "chuck and duck" is just not accurate. The best rushing offenses I've worked with hands-on have been based primarily from spread formations.

A major key to almost any successful offense is BALANCE. I'm not talking about a 50/50 run-pass ratio, as that notion of balance is a myth. It's not about the ratio of plays called. Unless you are just superior to your competition, a lack of true balance will end up getting you beat.

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Spreading the field by formation makes it easier to pound the rock right at the defense. Call it spread'em and pound'em. To automatically associate an offense that uses spread formations with "chuck and duck" is just not accurate. The best rushing offenses I've worked with hands-on have been based primarily from spread formations.

A major key to almost any successful offense is BALANCE. I'm not talking about a 50/50 run-pass ratio, as that notion of balance is a myth. It's not about the ratio of plays called. Unless you are just superior to your competition, a lack of true balance will end up getting you beat.

 

:lol: That's gold

As for me, I'll take a good running game any day over spread offense. There is nothing more demoralizing for a defense than getting run over for first down after first down.

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Four yards and a cloud of dust. It's the only way.

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Someone must be an OC :lol:  What is most fun does not have a hard hitting defense as an choice here????? Watching a fast and physical defense is what is fun to watch in my opinion. As for the "other" choices, it is a toss up. If a team is a "chuck and duck" offense, it usually means our offense gets lots of chances to score. The "fat and slow" running games get us home much faster on Friday nights; meaning more refreshments and more time for them :lol:

DWC

 

I knew some defensive guy was gonna get defensive.  :P

For defense definitely running to the ball. Maybe more fun to watch a team that blitzes every down, or has stand up ends and tries to contain everything, plays press coverage.

 

As for the offense I agree that spreadem doesn't mean you got to chuck it. Personally I have fun watching those teams that use tempo. They don't have to go fast all of the time but when they do and they begin ripping off play after play that is fun for me to watch. The efficiency and coordination that it takes to execute at a fast pace is mesmerizing.

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Tell Ritter that ground and pound is way to go....I know we wished they would of.

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When the football is passed, three things can happen, and two of them are GOOD. There is nothing wrong with an incomplete pass.

 

Also, coaches shouldn't ask their players to do things they can't do. The offense, defense, and special teams have to match the skill and talent levels of the players.

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3rd pillar of job security is entertaining the MOB!

 

I think we adjust our academic programs so kids are better prepared for college, we do the same with football to get kids ready for what colleges are looking for.  Just the way we roll.

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When the football is passed, three things can happen, and two of them are GOOD. There is nothing wrong with an incomplete pass.

 

Also, coaches shouldn't ask their players to do things they can't do. The offense, defense, and special teams have to match the skill and talent levels of the players.

 

Bolded emphasis !!!   So true Coach Dunham, So So true!!!   

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When the football is passed, three things can happen, and two of them are GOOD. There is nothing wrong with an incomplete pass.

 

Also, coaches shouldn't ask their players to do things they can't do. The offense, defense, and special teams have to match the skill and talent levels of the players.

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  You have to adapt to players you have, in order to be successful.  I think the same goes with all team sports.  But looking at the history of State Championships and knowing what offenses they run I think you can take a guess what is the most successful type of offense in the high school game.  Let me know if I made a mistake here............

 

1.  Indpls. Chatard - 12 Ground and Pound  2.  FW Luers - 11 Both     Indpls.Cathedral - 11 Ground and Pound  4.  Sheridan - 9  Ground and Pound  5.  Indpls. Roncalli - 8  Ground and Pound     Warren Central - 8  Both - mostly Ground and Pound  7.  Ben Davis - 7  Both - mostly Ground and Pound     Carmel - 7 Spread them and Ground and Pound  9.  Lafayette CC - 6 Spread and Shred  10.  Penn - 5 Ground and Pound       

Edited by SicEm

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Cathedral is not ground and pound anymore.  They are more spread them out now the past 5+ years.
 

Couldn't agree more with this statement.  You have to adapt to players you have, in order to be successful.  I think the same goes with all team sports.  But looking at the history of State Championships and knowing what offenses they run I think you can take a guess what is the most successful type of offense in the high school game.  Let me know if I made a mistake here............

 

1.  Indpls. Chatard - 12 Ground and Pound  2.  FW Luers - 11 Both     Indpls.Cathedral - 11 Ground and Pound  4.  Sheridan - 9  Ground and Pound  5.  Indpls. Roncalli - 8  Ground and Pound     Warren Central - 8  Both - mostly Ground and Pound  7.  Ben Davis - 7  Both - mostly Ground and Pound     Carmel - 7 Spread them and Ground and Pound  9.  Lafayette CC - 6 Spread and Shred  10.  Penn - 5 Ground and Pound       

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But as it was mentioned before, are they spreading to create running lanes with the threat of pass??   I think someone used the phrase, Spread em and pound em.   I truly don't know, I have only seen a few clips here and there of Cathedral.  

 

@21iridguy19, what do you think is the splits Run/Pass with Cathedral, regardless of formation?   50/50?  70/30??    Again I don't know, just was wondering 

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I think it has varied depending on the QB situation.  When both Barthel brothers were QB I would say it was more 45/55 for run:pass ratio.  When Gino Gillum was a Sr I would say that it was 55/45 run:pass ratio maybe even a little more.  When Kofi Hughes was the QB it was definitely more option oriented and running.  Cathedral now is more of an inside handoff from the shotgun or jet sweep team with the QB throwing 25-35 times a game.  Again, it all depends on the skillset of the QB. 

 

But as it was mentioned before, are they spreading to create running lanes with the threat of pass??   I think someone used the phrase, Spread em and pound em.   I truly don't know, I have only seen a few clips here and there of Cathedral.  

 

@21iridguy19, what do you think is the splits Run/Pass with Cathedral, regardless of formation?   50/50?  70/30??    Again I don't know, just was wondering 

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that has been are philosophy as well, adjust to your strengths based on personnel you have any given year.   We can be Shotgun 2 by 2, trips, 2 back gun with Jet on every play, to wishbone double tight and double tight, double wing.   Sometimes we use it all in any given game.  

 

In 05 when we 1st dabbled in Shotgun with QB Jake Kiger, we would call around 25 pass plays a game, but at the end of the 48 minutes there was the state line 10-13 or something to that affect, Jake would make a read or two and BOOM, find a seam and take off.   

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There is nothing wrong with an incomplete pass.

Using up a down when you gained zero yards is bad.

Always press forward.

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When the football is passed, three things can happen, and two of them are GOOD. There is nothing wrong with an incomplete pass.

 

Also, coaches shouldn't ask their players to do things they can't do. The offense, defense, and special teams have to match the skill and talent levels of the players.

 

Completely Agree with you. Do you think though that if you work at it you can develop the skills needed to run the offense, defense, or special teams you think gives you the best chance to win? Ok, you don't have any body on your team that can throw or catch. For that year you have to do what gives you the best chance to win, but shouldn't you be working on develop skills at the lower levels that allows you to play the way you want later on. Offenses should evolve based on their players abilities but you can do a lot to develop the skills needed.

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Nothing better than lining up in Wisbone Double-Tight and running three backs through the middle or sweeping outside behind your fullback, halfback, quarterback and two pulling guards.

 

If you get 2.5 yards on every play, you'll keep moving the chains. Also, I think too many running teams are too conservative and should go for it basically anytime on fourth down and less-than-3.

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Nothing better than lining up in Wisbone Double-Tight and running three backs through the middle or sweeping outside behind your fullback, halfback, quarterback and two pulling guards.

 

If you get 2.5 yards on every play, you'll keep moving the chains. Also, I think too many running teams are too conservative and should go for it basically anytime on fourth down and less-than-3.

I agree....statistics show that the NFL is the worst at this...coaches don't understand their own odds.  The old "just take the points" philosophy is bad.  Go for it more...punt less.

GS has had a lot of success at about 50/50 run pass with a lot of spread formations.  If you can master it...most HS teams in Indiana have trouble defending...but then again...any offense that you "master" is hard to defend...isn't it?

Edited by Titan32

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All I know is some of us had better be physically fit to adapt to what is going on, no matter the scenario.

 

As far as I am concerned, I really wish we could add an additional person to the field.....we need 6.  

 

But I am stoked, and ready for the season to begin!   I love Indiana HS football......

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