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Indian72

South Bend Public School Football - What it would take to.....

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I think that a lot of people, as is the case with so many things, have the cause and effect relationship reversed. That there are some shortcomings in the coaching situation in SBPSC, if that's true, is not a cause, it's an effect. The larger problems with the school corporation as a whole, and the role of football specifically, make those coaching positions less attractive than they might otherwise be. So they attract less than the cream of the crop.

I think this is a valid statement.  It is not a secret that the SBCSC does not consider athletics a priority and that is putting it in a very nice fashion.  The truth is, they don't care at all.  That is not to say that some of the coaches are not quality coaches and quality individuals.  I know for a fact that when the Adams job opened originally there were some very quality people that applied.  The guy that was hired was a quality hire with successful head coaching experience.  Unfortunately because of the lack of priority put on athletics in the SBCSC he left to go back to the Ft. Wayne area before he coached a game for Adams and promptly went to a sectional championship game.  It was June and Adams was stuck hiring a less qualified candidate.  It is always something.

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Can we just focus on SB football and not things elsewhere?

There were some good comments about issues and suggestions that have gotten lost

SB is no different than nay metropolitan area with a vast array of population and social-economic issues

 

I am sure downtown would say they are committed to athletics and the athletic program.  But how many coaches keep coaching with a losing record after more than a couple of years.  

 

History is not on a SBCSC school in quite a long time other than the Washington run a couple years ago and Clay getting to the semi state level

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I think this is a valid statement.  It is not a secret that the SBCSC does not consider athletics a priority and that is putting it in a very nice fashion.  The truth is, they don't care at all.  That is not to say that some of the coaches are not quality coaches and quality individuals.  I know for a fact that when the Adams job opened originally there were some very quality people that applied.  The guy that was hired was a quality hire with successful head coaching experience.  Unfortunately because of the lack of priority put on athletics in the SBCSC he left to go back to the Ft. Wayne area before he coached a game for Adams and promptly went to a sectional championship game.  It was June and Adams was stuck hiring a less qualified candidate.  It is always something.

I agree.  The administration has done a bad job with all phases of athletic administration.  Either the administration supports athletics or scraps it.  

 

It is hard to get good coaches in most of the sports offered.  No one wants the responsibility or the headaches.

 

I think it's very difficult to be a teacher and coach in this day and age, with all the academic responsibilities on top of athletic duties.

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Can we just focus on SB football and not things elsewhere?

There were some good comments about issues and suggestions that have gotten lost

SB is no different than nay metropolitan area with a vast array of population and social-economic issues

 

I am sure downtown would say they are committed to athletics and the athletic program.  But how many coaches keep coaching with a losing record after more than a couple of years.  

 

History is not on a SBCSC school in quite a long time other than the Washington run a couple years ago and Clay getting to the semi state level

The biggest issue in terms of athletic success has been open enrollment.  There is no way to have a consistent program if there are no formal feeder schools.

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Found this finally.  All-Time Sectionals Titles:

 

1 South Bend Clay 2002 (4A)

1 South Bend Riley 1992 (5A)

9 South Bend St. Joseph’s 1976 (3A), 1983 (3A), 1990 (3A), 1994 (3A), 1995 (3A), 2002 (3A), 2007 (3A), 2010 (3A), 2011 (3A)

2 South Bend Washington 1977 (3A), 2011 (4A)

Edited by R4WR

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The biggest issue in terms of athletic success has been open enrollment.  There is no way to have a consistent program if there are no formal feeder schools.

Do not most metro areas in Indiana have open enrollment?  That one I do not know

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Do not most metro areas in Indiana have open enrollment?  That one I do not know

Open enrollment and acceptance of open enrollment tend to be two separate items. To some extent it's like the new homeschool rule. While the IHSAA has provisions for it, it is still in the hands of the schools. Some are more receptive to one or the other or both while others aren't to either.

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Do not most metro areas in Indiana have open enrollment?  That one I do not know

 

Are you talking about open enrollment like they have in the SBCSC, i.e., a single school corporation that operates multiple high schools allows kids living within that school corporation to enroll at any of the high schools it operates, regardless of where the students live or the schools are located? 

 

If that is what you mean, then I believe that the answer is no.  As far as I am aware, the only multiple-high school corporation in Marion County or the "collar counties" around Indianapolis is IPS. ( A possible exception is in Hamilton County by Fishers, as I am not sure if Fishers High School and Hamilton SE are run by the same or different school corps.)  IPS still has "boundary schools" within its system, so it does not have open enrollment like the SBCSC.  However, IPS has a pretty extensive magnet school system that functions a bit like open enrollment, in that it facilitates opportunities for some kids in the system to go to an IPS high school other than their neighborhood "boundary" school.  

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Does Fort Wayne, Hammond, Evansville have open enrollment?

 

Did not the issue in SB start when they started the specialty programs at each high school?

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Hammond has open enrollment, and that has fueled the development of Hammond Morton as a 4A contender (4 sectional titles in the last 5 seasons). Gary also has open enrollment, but they do theirs in an interesting way. Their various high schools are set up to attract a certain type of student to each, such as a vocational school, a technical school, a "leadership academy," etc. Don't know if the description "magnet school" is appropriate. But that's how they do it.

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Open enrollment and acceptance of open enrollment tend to be two separate items. To some extent it's like the new homeschool rule. While the IHSAA has provisions for it, it is still in the hands of the schools. Some are more receptive to one or the other or both while others aren't to either.

 

Actually public schools are not longer allowed to deny a request to transfer for any reason except capacity. That means even a student with poor grades, test scores, or behavior issues must be accepted.

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Does Fort Wayne, Hammond, Evansville have open enrollment?

 

Did not the issue in SB start when they started the specialty programs at each high school?

That is how it started but you can go to any high school you want regardless of whether you are in a magnet or not.  If it was just magnet programs then it would not be an issue.

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With the success of Hammond Morton, could Adams using the Hammond Morton model, become the "football high school"?  They have good numbers, they need sustained success.

Edited by CoachK5

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I would agree with the numbers - they were great for a SB school

 

Success?

 

2013     4-6

2012     7-5

2011     2-8

2010     2-8

2009     2-9

2008     4-7

 

Adams past 6 seasons and they are 2-3 this year

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With the success of Hammond Morton, could Adams using the Hammond Morton model, become the "football high school"?  They have good numbers, they need sustained success.

I really believe that it could happen, but open enrollment merely creates the potential. You need an extraordinary person to tap that potential, like Morton's Roy Richards. They don't come along that often. And I don't believe it is mere coincidence that Morton's success came when their head coach is also the school's AD.

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Actually public schools are not longer allowed to deny a request to transfer for any reason except capacity. That means even a student with poor grades, test scores, or behavior issues must be accepted.

 

Unless the school district decides they will be "closed" school system.   Each year or maybe semester, or fiscal year, not sure which, a school corp must decided one way or another, OPEN or CLOSED, so that like its been eluded to, schools don't cherry pick students.  You either take them all or deny them all.   

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Unless the school district decides they will be "closed" school system.   Each year or maybe semester, or fiscal year, not sure which, a school corp must decided one way or another, OPEN or CLOSED, so that like its been eluded to, schools don't cherry pick students.  You either take them all or deny them all.   

 

Correct.  It is the same way with the homeschool issue as well.  The school has to declare whether they will allow it or not, but it is an all or none decision.

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You would think that the open enrollment would balance out the high school enrollments.  Not so much.  

 

The increased cost of transportation is mind boggling.  The amount of buses out on the road and the route they take is hard to comprehend.  Multiple busses on the same block going to multiple schools, it a wonder there is money for anything else in the corporation.  

 

South Bend doesn't have the money to improve it's facilities.  As a former coach told me once, "it's a nice town to be from".

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South Bend doesn't have the money to improve it's facilities. As a former coach told me once, "it's a nice town to be from".

Ouch. But I have to say that it's a pretty good line.

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I really believe that it could happen, but open enrollment merely creates the potential. You need an extraordinary person to tap that potential, like Morton's Roy Richards. They don't come along that often. And I don't believe it is mere coincidence that Morton's success came when their head coach is also the school's AD.

Something like that would never happen in South Bend.  I believe there is a rule in South Bend that an administrator can not be a head coach.  Not sure about that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

I don't see too many teachers coming to South Bend to coach.  The last couple outside recruits didn't turn out so well.

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Clay beat Memorial last night.  Is Elkhart any better off than South Bend in Football?

Concord, Jimtown, Northridge (this season at least), NorthWood (not so much recently) - all Quality teams out of Elkhart County.  City of Elkhart not a ton of success but the supporting school have been decent.

Edited by Unlucky Breaks

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Concord, Jimtown, Northridge (this season at least), NorthWood (not so much recently) - all Quality teams out of Elkhart County.  City of Elkhart not a ton of success but the supporting school have been decent.

Elkhart would be about a 3000 student high school if combined.  I would think that would benefit the athetics

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This maybe the true story in a nutshell

 

Since the 1994 season through the 2013 season

 

SCHOOL                  OVERALL RECORD            # Games won against other SBCSC Teams     # season with 4 wins or more

 

ADAMS                      41- 149                               20                                                                     4

 

CLAY                       105 -103                               52                                                                     8

 

RILEY                        69 - 135                              36                                                                      7

 

WASHINGTON           81 - 131                              32                                                                      6

 

 

When Mike Kuntz was at Clay he had one of the best success rates in some time at SBCSC school.  Many of the schools do not seen to keep a head coach for more than 5 years.

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This maybe the true story in a nutshell

 

Since the 1994 season through the 2013 season

 

SCHOOL                  OVERALL RECORD            # Games won against other SBCSC Teams     # season with 4 wins or more

 

ADAMS                      41- 149                               20                                                                     4

 

CLAY                       105 -103                               52                                                                     8

 

RILEY                        69 - 135                              36                                                                      7

 

WASHINGTON           81 - 131                              32                                                                      6

 

 

When Mike Kuntz was at Clay he had one of the best success rates in some time at SBCSC school.  Many of the schools do not seen to keep a head coach for more than 5 years.

You forgot my Lions

 

LASALLE           10 - 69                                4                                                            1 (included 2 tournament wins)

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