Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Time for IHSAA to Implement The NSF : Non Success Factor - Its the right thing to do


Guest DT

Recommended Posts

45 minutes ago, CheapSeats said:

End Zone Cameras?  Coach Moore doesn't even wear a headset.  Cameras and head sets aren't needed if you can see everything on the field!

Maybe if he wore a visor he could one day hold up that WRC trophy and be named "Coach of the Year" once again. 

As good as they have been, that Sectional trophy seems to have eluded him since moving to PH. I believe the PH - TR merger hour glass is slowly running out of sand as far as football is concerned. There is no doubt some great talent on the current Wolfs squad, but what's coming behind it?  The boys basketball and volleyball teams seem to be cashing in on the merger. If they're not winning trophies in football with their current talent, will kids keep coming out to play?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tanka Jahari said:

Maybe if they add another school they will finally put a football trophy in the trophy case. Rockville and Marshall would go crazy! The Wolfs have many pieces in place to make it happen!

You advocating for a single High School in Parke County? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I dunno.  The people around Mecca, Montezuma, and Rosedale seem like independent minded folks.

Those people would rather tongue kiss an electric outlet than join forces with their northern neighbors. If you are ever in the Mecca area Muda feel free to pick up a steak at the Mecca Tavern and maybe take a stray dog or two home with you.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Tanka Jahari said:

Those people would rather tongue kiss an electric outlet than join forces with their northern neighbors. If you are ever in the Mecca area Muda feel free to pick up a steak at the Mecca Tavern and maybe take a stray dog or two home with you.

Yes to the steak, no to the dogs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/25/2021 at 3:25 PM, Indiana Fan said:

Not everything is fair in this world DT. It is what it is. I have always said that I do not like the success factor. I think that's punishing teams who have a great program or punishing kids who have to play up  a class just because teams that came before them won many games. I have always stated that the private schools should be the schools that should have to move up a class. People argue against that, but they get a lot more benefits with having to play in smaller classes with lots more football players to choose from. Not to mention kids who are paying to go to the school for football or basketball or etc. And then also, private schools help players out that they want to go to their school to play (recruiting). I am not against private schools I just am saying that they will always have an advantage when it comes to athletics because of the smaller schools that they play.

Again, things are not always fair and that is just the way it is. You cannot have a nonsuccess factor points system in place. That becomes a slippery slope of having specifics in place and how the IHSAA and schools approach seasons. Play in the class you are supposed to play in based off of enrollment and do the best you can. 

This is not a public-private issue.  Its a public-public issue.

The IHSAA views an affluent suburban 4A school like Mooresville the same way it views a blue collar rural school like Jay County.  In the eyes of the IHSAA, they are equal because they share the same enrollment and are both public.  But Mooresville has huge advantages over Jay County that drive a a different set of results on the field.  The NSF is designed to mitigate these differences, and take into account that especialiiy geography is a huge potential indicator of success and schools have absolutely no control over this reality.

Some will say that we are trying to overregulate the game.  I say that there are just as many good reasons to relegate a school from one class to another as there are to promote it.  probably even more, frankly.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/25/2021 at 3:06 PM, DT said:

The conversation over in the County school thread has reopened the door to discussion concerning implementation of the Failure Factor.  For purposes of political correctness, lets call it the Non Success Factor.  NSF.  

For all the reasons that we can point out that schools like Center Grove, Cathedral, Carmel, New Pal, Jasper, Westfield, etc etc have continued and sustained success, we can also point to schools like Jay County, Rushville, Connersville, Madison, Frankfort, Owen Valley, etc etc who are on the other end of the spectrum and experience very little success on the high school football gridiron.

It basically all comes down to geography, which no school can impact or change, regardless of the amount it invests in its program.

While many schools enjoy great community and administrative support, are blessed with excellent facilities, have strong feeder programs, active alumni and high rates of participation, many are also on the exact opposite end of the rope using that same set of criteria.

If we are going to promote FW Dwenger from 4A to 5A because of its consistent excellence, why dont we demote Frankfort and Owen Valley from 4A to 3A due to their consistent failures?

Is anyone going to argue that Dwenger has much more to work with than Owen Valley?

Is it OVs fault that its rural location limits its potential to be all it can be on the football field?

The comment was made in the county thread that "county schools generally play 4A football at the 2A or 1A level.  With all the challenges many of these schools face, is it really fair to say that a wealthy suburban 4A is playing with the same deck that a blue collar county 4A is playing with?

I have contended all along that the IHSAA's top mandate is to work towards the maintenance of competitive balance.  The IHSAA did a great job of addressing the top end of the competitive balance spectrum.  Its now time to look at the bottom end and address the schools who are truly handicapped by their individual geography and make the necessary adjustments to give them a fighting chance for success.  

Failure to address this issue could result in contraction by those schools who feel like they are being bypassed and left behind 

 

 

 

 

I absolutely would support something like this. Maybe call it just the competition factor. It can work you up or down. If a school has sustained success they move up and up and up. If they have sustained struggle, they move down. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/25/2021 at 3:25 PM, Indiana Fan said:

I have always said that I do not like the success factor. I think that's punishing teams who have a great program or punishing kids who have to play up  a class just because teams that came before them won many games. I have always stated that the private schools should be the schools that should have to move up a class. 

You hit the nail on the head. And for that reason, the system is flawed. Most programs have a two year cycle where the talent is high, followed by a two year cycle where the talent is low. The talented kids play down a class, the less talented kids play up. It makes no sense. Moving to a four year cycle would fix that problem.  Eight points during that cycle bumps a program up. 

Private schools moving up can be justified. They can recruit a kid from anywhere. By and large, I believe that 80% of a catholic school's success comes from within. Let's face it, those catholic kids can play some football.  Recruiting is just 20%. Enough for the bump up, in my opinion. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let's say that by the competition factor that 6A would have the 32 most successful programs over a given period by some mathematical algorithm. Then 5A would have the next 32 and then so on. I guess the only thing you might fight is the perception that some of the low schools would be seen as "losers" or something. It might also have the unintended consequence of the "rich get even richer."

Edited by BDGiant93
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I absolutely would support something like this. Maybe call it just the competition factor. It can work you up or down. If a school has sustained success they move up and up and up. If they have sustained struggle, they move down. 

Its as simple as that

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question about this: how will it make said relegated team better?  They'll still play the same regular season and only 1-3 games in their new Sectional.

and it will cause a potential l log jam in the new class as new sectionals will need to be created.  If a school needs to go down, it should be their decision as it was Cathedral's to go up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Question about this: how will it make said relegated team better?  They'll still play the same regular season and only 1-3 games in their new Sectional.

Winning builds confidence, improves turnout, generates stronger community support, and encourages further program investment.  If we can take a school that has had little to no success at 3A and make that school a moderately successful 2A program, are we not doing something positive to reinforce the student experience at said school?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DT said:

Winning builds confidence, improves turnout, generates stronger community support, and encourages further program investment.  If we can take a school that has had little to no success at 3A and make that school a moderately successful 2A program, are we not doing something positive to reinforce the student experience at said school?  

Could be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gipper said:

Question about this: how will it make said relegated team better?  They'll still play the same regular season and only 1-3 games in their new Sectional.

and it will cause a potential l log jam in the new class as new sectionals will need to be created.  If a school needs to go down, it should be their decision as it was Cathedral's to go up.

Might be an incentive to play a tough schedule, truthfully. That would make you better for the tournament. Maybe teams might sandbag? I don't know. Just spitballing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

Might be an incentive to play a tough schedule, truthfully. That would make you better for the tournament. Maybe teams might sandbag? I don't know. Just spitballing.

All good.   It’s a dilemma.  Sure, beating the crap out of other teams is a good thing, but when it comes as a result of you getting the crap beat out of is a wash.  In the words of Geno Auriemma, “get better”...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/26/2021 at 8:27 AM, Muda69 said:

So the IHSAA exists to recognize "success" and basically ignore failure.  Got it.

 

 

The IHSAA exists to conduct athletic competition based on the desire of the consensus of schools.  If a preponderance of schools desire a relegations system....it'll happen.  You're issue isn't with the IHSAA but school admin and school boards.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Is this proposal only for the rural teams?

Here in South Bend...we are the Washington Generals of high school football.  Maybe a step down in class may be the ticket

It's for all schools.  SB public schools would be one of the strongest beneficiaries of the NSF.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Obi-Wan said:

Does this run the risk of high schools "Tanking" to drop a class to have more success? I didn't see that on this thread in any other post, unless I missed it. Also how does the IHSAA combat "Tanking"?

Do you really believe a HS football coach would instruct player A to drop a pass on purpose or ask player B to purposefully miss a tackle?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Obi-Wan said:

Does this run the risk of high schools "Tanking" to drop a class to have more success? I didn't see that on this thread in any other post, unless I missed it. Also how does the IHSAA combat "Tanking"?

 

3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Do you really believe a HS football coach would instruct player A to drop a pass on purpose or ask player B to purposefully miss a tackle?

 

 

I was thinking the same thing.  And would the AD and principal condone this ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/26/2021 at 10:24 AM, DE said:

They do not invest in end zone camera excellence?

For schools that utilize the skycoach sideline system (as Gibson Southern does)  I highly recommend the "Legacy 27", for programs serious about excellence.

The Legacy Advanced is the #1 Seller for End Zone Camera systems on the market today! The Legacy will give your camera an “aerial” perspective from 27 FT  in the air. The risers are made of sturdy carbon fiber tubes with large latches to make setup quick. Reach above the crowds at events, concerts and sports activities. The only difference between this tower and the Legacy Basic is the type of camera you receive.

SYSTEM INCLUDES:

  • Waterproof Travel Case

  • 7″ LCD with 6 hr battery

  • Motorize Pan Tilt

  • All-in-One Controller

  • Canon HD Camera

  • Rain Gear

  • 27 FT Carbon Fiber Tri-Pod Collar & Arm for Monitor mount

  • 3 Sandbags

FEATURES:

  • Made of sturdy, light-weight carbon fiber tubes

  • 27 FT tall for “aerial-style” perspectives

  • Easy latches make setup quick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

For schools that utilize the skycoach sideline system (as Gibson Southern does)  I highly recommend the "Legacy 27", for programs serious about excellence.

The Legacy Advanced is the #1 Seller for End Zone Camera systems on the market today! The Legacy will give your camera an “aerial” perspective from 27 FT  in the air. The risers are made of sturdy carbon fiber tubes with large latches to make setup quick. Reach above the crowds at events, concerts and sports activities. The only difference between this tower and the Legacy Basic is the type of camera you receive.

SYSTEM INCLUDES:

  • Waterproof Travel Case

  • 7″ LCD with 6 hr battery

  • Motorize Pan Tilt

  • All-in-One Controller

  • Canon HD Camera

  • Rain Gear

  • 27 FT Carbon Fiber Tri-Pod Collar & Arm for Monitor mount

  • 3 Sandbags

FEATURES:

  • Made of sturdy, light-weight carbon fiber tubes

  • 27 FT tall for “aerial-style” perspectives

  • Easy latches make setup quick

You just made  @Tanka Jahariyear.

You 2 need to get coffee and share old war stories.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...