Success Factor Directly Changed Your Team's Chances to Win a Sectional

[hhpatriot04]

Without overthinking it via the "butterfly effect," without the implementation of the success factor would your team still be playing for a sectional championship? More bluntly, are there teams now in your sectional or not in your sectional which would or would not be playing for a sectional title if we conducted the 2021 tournament based solely on enrollment?

[roaringthunderdlr]

I am a fan of the success factor, however I am confused as to why we were playing against Cathedral in our sectional. They should have been in 6A the whole time. Mooresville and Roncalli should be promoted to 5A.

Edited November 5, 2021 by roaringthunderdlr

[BendNotBreak]

Depends on the Sec.... ie.  the Sec of Death......

[Dave007]

1 minute ago, roaringthunderdlr said:

I am a fan of the success factor, however I am confused as to why we were playing against Cathedral let alone them still being in 5A.

I can tell you without hesitation most if not all Cathedral fans and players want to get back in 6A as quickly as possible, but they can only do what IHSAA rules say they can do.  What sucks is I think we are still stuck in 5A next year due to Covid measures which extended the current SSF one more year.  

 

[roaringthunderdlr]

6 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

I can tell you without hesitation most if not all Cathedral fans and players want to get back in 6A as quickly as possible, but they can only do what IHSAA rules say they can do.  What sucks is I think we are still stuck in 5A next year due to Covid measures which extended the current SSF one more year.  

 

That's dumb because there is literally no chance anyone in our sectional are beating you guys any time soon, let alone Plainfield. At least we have a slim (5-10%) chance against DC. The only way it's a level playing field for Plainfield vs Cathedral is if you dump tar or quicksand all over the field. You guys should replace CN in the empty FC/CG/CN sectional, not be stuck in the Plainfield/Terre Haute schools sectional. Oh yeah, put Ben Davis in that FC/CG sectional too because their sectional with Perry, Tech, and Southport is a piece of cake.

Edited November 5, 2021 by roaringthunderdlr

[hhpatriot04]

12 minutes ago, roaringthunderdlr said:

That's dumb because there is literally no chance anyone in our sectional are beating you guys any time soon, let alone Plainfield. At least we have a slim (5-10%) chance against DC. The only way it's a level playing field for Plainfield vs Cathedral is if you dump tar or quicksand all over the field. You guys should replace CN in the empty FC/CG/CN sectional, not be stuck in the Plainfield/Terre Haute schools sectional. Oh yeah, put Ben Davis in that FC/CG sectional too because their sectional with Perry, Tech, and Southport is a piece of cake.

(To clarify) The question is if it has changed/affected/impacted "your team's..." -- not necessarily hurt or helped their chances ... just affected.

[Slobberknocker]

24 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

I can tell you without hesitation most if not all Cathedral fans and players want to get back in 6A as quickly as possible, but they can only do what IHSAA rules say they can do.  What sucks is I think we are still stuck in 5A next year due to Covid measures which extended the current SSF one more year.  

 

I thought a school could request to play up any year but you are saying that schools can only request to play up in the SSF window?

[DumfriesYMCA]

It would be foolish to vote no if you are a 3A teams fan from south of Indy unless you are Southridge who got bumped up to 3A to sectional 32 with memorial leaving 32 for 4A 

 

but Southridge still won sectional 32 last year going 13-0 before running into Danville 

[jets]

24 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

It would be foolish to vote no if you are a 3A teams fan from south of Indy unless you are Southridge who got bumped up to 3A to sectional 32 with memorial leaving 32 for 4A 

 

but Southridge still won sectional 32 last year going 13-0 before running into Danville 

You seem to forget that team last year very well could have been a State Championship team in 2A. And 2019 could have made a postseason run as well...or who knows about this year’s team.

It 100% has affected us lol. 

I still find it ironic that it has been Southridge...Not Gibson (your time is coming), not HH, not MD, not Jasper- but SR that has been the only area school touched by the SF from our area. (Minus Memorial of course) . And it hasn’t just been a 2 year window like it’s was suppose to be

[BendNotBreak]

51 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

(To clarify) The question is if it has changed/affected/impacted "your team's..." -- not necessarily hurt or helped their chances ... just affected.

A Clinical Physiologist ..... nice....

[DumfriesYMCA]

1 hour ago, jets said:

You seem to forget that team last year very well could have been a State Championship team in 2A. And 2019 could have made a postseason run as well...or who knows about this year’s team.

It 100% has affected us lol. 

I still find it ironic that it has been Southridge...Not Gibson (your time is coming), not HH, not MD, not Jasper- but SR that has been the only area school touched by the SF from our area. (Minus Memorial of course) . And it hasn’t just been a 2 year window like it’s was suppose to be

Oh I’m not denying it has hurt the chances of deeper post season runs.  And the topic says this isn’t for discussion if it has hurt the programs chances but SR I think is the team hurt by it no doubt. 
 

but teams like Vincennes? Danville? Triwest….Gibson So. And Heritage Hills….not having memorial or Chatard has to improve their chances even if the results haven’t necessarily indicated that for some teams like GS 

 

vincennes might be the biggest winner of it all for 3A.  Because of memorial and Chatard being in 4A and Southridge moving up, 3A south is all messed up geographically.  A 5-4 team in 2019 won sectional 30 that otherwise probably wouldn’t have made it out of 32….and tonight…they are hanging tough looking to win their sectional again playing owen valley who is like 10-1?.  Tough sled for them but they finished the season at 1-8 and are now 3-8 playing for the sectional title

 

edit: @jetsi think you need to read what I said again because your response doesn’t make sense after reading it again 

Edited November 5, 2021 by DumfriesYMCA

[vanman]

It has 100% affected us and there ain't no "lol" about it.

[DumfriesYMCA]

Edit #2 

 

im the one misreading things.  My apologies.  For some reason I read “improve chances” not what it was which was affected chances 

 

again my bad 

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Slobberknocker said:

I thought a school could request to play up any year but you are saying that schools can only request to play up in the SSF window?

The school administration could, not sure what that has to do with parents and Players thoughts feelings though.

[foxbat]

3 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Without overthinking it via the "butterfly effect," without the implementation of the success factor would your team still be playing for a sectional championship? More bluntly, are there teams now in your sectional or not in your sectional which would or would not be playing for a sectional title if we conducted the 2021 tournament based solely on enrollment?

The three schools that I have direct ties with have not really been impacted in sectionals, good or bad, by SF. 

This season, LCC is playing for a sectional title tonight in 2A and would likely also be doing in 1A this season if they had stayed in 1A.  That story would have changed though in their very first season of SF bump when they lost to Tipton in the second round of sectionals in 2013.  Had they stayed in 1A that year, they most likely would have played for a sectional and, most likely, had ended up at LOS if not five-peating.  In the three seasons, so far, where LCC has played up, it has likely impacted their sectional chances, to the negative, 1 out of 3.

Jeff is 6A, so it doesn't directly impact them and, even by butterfly effect of someone else moving up, they haven't been impacted yet as they haven't gotten out of sectionals since 2002. 

Harrison is 5A and has had better post-season production that Jeff; getting out of sectionals in two of the last five seasons.  Zionsville has been the culprit the last two seasons.

[foxbat]

3 hours ago, Slobberknocker said:

I thought a school could request to play up any year but you are saying that schools can only request to play up in the SSF window?

I think that they can petition up at any time; however, the action is actually taken in the year when the re-classifications are actually implemented if granted.

[XStar]

2 hours ago, jets said:

You seem to forget that team last year very well could have been a State Championship team in 2A.

LOL

[jets]

1 minute ago, XStar said:

LOL

I figured you’d find that post and comment accordingly. 

Notice I did say COULD have been. 

The fact of the matter is because of the SF, we will never know- and I thought that was the question proposed in this thread.

[XStar]

11 minutes ago, jets said:

I figured you’d find that post and comment accordingly. 

Notice I did say COULD have been. 

The fact of the matter is because of the SF, we will never know- and I thought that was the question proposed in this thread.

You said "very well could have been".  

 

[Purdue Pete]

Covid freeze impacted a bunch of teams.  Maybe more significant than SF this year?

[Esso Ayche]

3 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

vincennes might be the biggest winner of it all for 3A.  Because of memorial and Chatard being in 4A and Southridge moving up, 3A south is all messed up geographically.  A 5-4 team in 2019 won sectional 30 that otherwise probably wouldn’t have made it out of 32….and tonight…they are hanging tough looking to win their sectional again playing owen valley who is like 10-1?.  Tough sled for them but they finished the season at 1-8 and are now 3-8 playing for the sectional title

I will respectfully disagree that VL is the biggest winner of Memorial/Chatard moving up.  Recent history shows that a S30 championship is... well... not exactly a feat.  I don't know that Memorial or Chatard moving up would be opening too many doors for any S30 champs to move on beyond even the mid-tier S29 teams that get knocked out in their first/second round.  I don't see an S30 champ currently/recently getting a chance at a potential S32 beneficiary of Memorial leaving S32 at semi-state, let alone an S28 (sectional of death) beneficiary at the state championship.  VL/Oven Valley may surprise me, but right now I can't see either of them knocking off either Danville or Tri-West.  OV have had a great year, but beyond their Northview win... I dunno.  I honestly don't follow them even remotely close, so I don't have a good bead on them.

Reaching back into 2019 S30... playing VL in that sectional championship was a regular season one win Princeton team (the win was vs zero win Washington), who didn't have much resistance from Owen Valley (a regular season one win team (whose win was versus ANOTHER regular season one win team)) or Edgewood (a 7-2 team with wins I think exclusively vs 1A-2A schools... and Washington) in their first two sectional rounds to get there. 

So, comparatively, 2019 Princeton was a 1-8 regular season team playing at 3-8 for the sectional title as well... 

HAVING SAID THAT... comparing the 2021 VL regular season schedule vs the 2019 Princeton regular season schedule is like comparing apples to week old avocados that got left out in the trunk of the car.

VL appeared to be into sustaining a program upswing, and still may be, but getting into the SIAC... eh.  I don't know that it will be good for their long term growth.  Facing tough opponents throughout the season is definitely desirable in preparing for the postseason... to a point... but getting your guts kicked in practically week in and week out can't be good for team morale or lower level enthusiasm.  Maybe riding the S30 championship game train will be enough to keep the numbers up, but I personally have my doubts.

[DumfriesYMCA]

4 minutes ago, Esso Ayche said:

I will respectfully disagree that VL is the biggest winner of Memorial/Chatard moving up.  Recent history shows that a S30 championship is... well... not exactly a feat.  I don't know that Memorial or Chatard moving up would be opening too many doors for any S30 champs to move on beyond even the mid-tier S29 teams that get knocked out in their first/second round.  I don't see an S30 champ currently/recently getting a chance at a potential S32 beneficiary of Memorial leaving S32 at semi-state, let alone an S28 (sectional of death) beneficiary at the state championship.  VL/Oven Valley may surprise me, but right now I can't see either of them knocking off either Danville or Tri-West.  OV have had a great year, but beyond their Northview win... I dunno.  I honestly don't follow them even remotely close, so I don't have a good bead on them.

Reaching back into 2019 S30... playing VL in that sectional championship was a regular season one win Princeton team (the win was vs zero win Washington), who didn't have much resistance from Owen Valley (a regular season one win team (whose win was versus ANOTHER regular season one win team)) or Edgewood (a 7-2 team with wins I think exclusively vs 1A-2A schools... and Washington) in their first two sectional rounds to get there. 

So, comparatively, 2019 Princeton was a 1-8 regular season team playing at 3-8 for the sectional title as well... 

HAVING SAID THAT... comparing the 2021 VL regular season schedule vs the 2019 Princeton regular season schedule is like comparing apples to week old avocados that got left out in the trunk of the car.

VL appeared to be into sustaining a program upswing, and still may be, but getting into the SIAC... eh.  I don't know that it will be good for their long term growth.  Facing tough opponents throughout the season is definitely desirable in preparing for the postseason... to a point... but getting your guts kicked in practically week in and week out can't be good for team morale or lower level enthusiasm.  Maybe riding the S30 championship game train will be enough to keep the numbers up, but I personally have my doubts.

All fair points.  But vincennes and Princeton were in sectional 32, and that’s the biggest point.  The success factor moving Chatard and memorial up changed the entire landscape of what it would take to win a sectional 

 

if Chatard and memorial were in 3A still 32 would likely still be Vincennes, Princeton, Washington, bosse, Gibson Southern, Mt. Vernon, Memorial and pike central 

 

if I’m not mistaken…heritage hills got moved to 32 in 2014-ish once chatard moved up the first time..and then Southridge moving up to 3A + memorial made them redo a lot of 3A. West Lafayette got the short end of the stick too because Brebeuf/Guerin were in 29 before with Chatard.

 

would be interesting to see a table of the 3A sectionals pre SF and seeing where those teams are now in terms of sectional alignment 

[Esso Ayche]

16 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

All fair points.  But vincennes and Princeton were in sectional 32, and that’s the biggest point.  The success factor moving Chatard and memorial up changed the entire landscape of what it would take to win a sectional 

 

if Chatard and memorial were in 3A still 32 would likely still be Vincennes, Princeton, Washington, bosse, Gibson Southern, Mt. Vernon, Memorial and pike central 

 

if I’m not mistaken…heritage hills got moved to 32 in 2014-ish once chatard moved up the first time..and then Southridge moving up to 3A + memorial made them redo a lot of 3A. West Lafayette got the short end of the stick too because Brebeuf/Guerin were in 29 before with Chatard.

 

would be interesting to see a table of the 3A sectionals pre SF and seeing where those teams are now in terms of sectional alignment 

Also very fair, and better, points.  VL/Pton moving to S30 in 2019 bumped Danville/Tri-West to S29, Chatard from S29 to S28... and so on and so on.  Messy stuff.

Ok, I'll concede that VL is a big winner by moving to S30, particularly in respect to potentially winning a sectional championship, which is of course the original question you answered that I looked past. 

...still bugs me that Pton bumbled their way into a 2019 sectional championship game though. lol  My county rivalry blinders were attached firmly to my face.  Sectional envy perhaps?  Nah.

[DumfriesYMCA]

50 minutes ago, Esso Ayche said:

...still bugs me that Pton bumbled their way into a 2019 sectional championship game though. lol  My county rivalry blinders were attached firmly to my face.  Sectional envy perhaps?  Nah.

I’m with ya 😂  but if I talk too much smack about Princeton, I’ll be sleeping on the couch and Thanksgiving with her family will be pointed questions asking me how Gibson Southerns basketball teams have done vs Princeton 

 

I do very much prefer playing in a tough sectional and having a tough schedule…even if the losses hurt a lot more 

Edited November 5, 2021 by DumfriesYMCA

[Esso Ayche]

52 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

I’m with ya 😂  but if I talk too much smack about Princeton, I’ll be sleeping on the couch and Thanksgiving with her family will be pointed questions asking me how Gibson Southerns basketball teams have done vs Princeton 

 

I do very much prefer playing in a tough sectional and having a tough schedule…even if the losses hurt a lot more 

Ha! Well, happy wife, happy life. Smart man.

Without the sour, the sweet isn't nearly as sweet! (That's what my therapist tells me after every postseason 😆)