Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Declining Numbers Impacting Competitive Balance


Guest

Recommended Posts

6 minutes ago, HHF said:

Given what we have learned about concussion impact on football players, it would be wise for the IHSAA to "nudge" some programs into contraction before somebody really gets hurt, or even killed.  Some small town Indiana schools are putting their young people in harms way, setting back 75 years of football safety progress, by allowing their youth to participate in horrific mismatches.  The Mercy Rule will not revive a dead teenager.  

Just curious how many kids, in Indiana, died this past season due to mismatches in numbers of players?  Any call on how many kids from Midland died in 1926 when Linton beat them 156-0?  I'm assuming that the local mortician was able to retire after that game.

In all seriousness, and I'll ask again, although you say it's pure common sense, what are the numbers?  I'm not making light of this, but I suspect that more kids in Indiana have died of heat-related conditions.  And, again, how many deaths are attributed directly to the mismatch in team sizes?  Also, on a somewhat related set of numbers, do we have concussion numbers for Indiana?  If so, it should be fairly easy to determine how valid the concussion appeal happens to be as we could look at numbers and apply them to sizes of teams and see if there's any correlation ... although as I'm sure that @Bobref will point out, and rightly so, correlation isn't specifically causation.  It would, however, be a decent starting point for determining is it really the issue or not.

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Link?

Seriously?  You want me to link you to football concussion data?  You must be the laziest person on this site. 

2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Just curious how many kids, in Indiana, died this past season due to mismatches in numbers of players?  Any call on how many kids from Midland died in 1926 when Linton beat them 156-0?  I'm assuming that the local mortician was able to retire after that game.

In all seriousness, and I'll ask again, although you say it's pure common sense, what are the numbers?  I'm not making light of this, but I suspect that more kids in Indiana have died of heat-related conditions.  And, again, how many deaths are attributed directly to the mismatch in team sizes?  Also, on a somewhat related set of numbers, do we have concussion numbers for Indiana?  If so, it should be fairly easy to determine how valid the concussion appeal happens to be as we could look at numbers and apply them to sizes of teams and see if there's any correlation ... although as I'm sure that @Bobref will point out, and rightly so, correlation isn't specifically causation.  It would, however, be a decent starting point for determining is it really the issue or not.

 

 

Do we really need to have a death to prove that massive roster variances are dangerous?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

No.

I want a link that small town Indiana football players are somehow more at risk to CTE than 6A football players from Indianapolis.

 

Kindly leave so us adults can continue our conversation.  You will find some links in your toy box Im sure.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

I expected something a little more clever than that...

Youre not worth the effort.  Really, please leave,  Dont you have an HCC thread you can go visit?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Do we really need to have a death to prove that massive roster variances are dangerous?

But I thought the IHSAA's primarily enrollment based classification system is used primarily to prevent these massive roster variances?

And if there really is no correlation between massive roster variances and instances of injury the IHSAA can do away with it's enrolment based classification system and go to a more equitable system like promotion/relegation.  Win-win.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, HHF said:

Youre not worth the effort.  Really, please leave,  Dont you have an HCC thread you can go visit?

Keep grandstanding, maybe somebody one day will take you serious....

Question 7
We have unfortunately seen many game cancellations over the past few seasons, some related to Covid and many others due to low roster numbers. Small rosters create major problems for coaches and ADs as they negatively impact the ability to conduct a full practice, put student athletes into compromising positions relative to the potential for significant injury, and contribute to a very non competitive environment where schools might be playing each other with huge roster disparities. Would you support an IHSAA mandated Minimum Participation Standard, where the IHSAA sets minimum acceptable roster numbers by class. If a school cannot meet the MPS, it must sit out varsity play for two seasons and either drop its program or rebuild its numbers.
 
Response
I would never support this.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Keep grandstanding, maybe somebody one day will take you serious....

Question 7
We have unfortunately seen many game cancellations over the past few seasons, some related to Covid and many others due to low roster numbers. Small rosters create major problems for coaches and ADs as they negatively impact the ability to conduct a full practice, put student athletes into compromising positions relative to the potential for significant injury, and contribute to a very non competitive environment where schools might be playing each other with huge roster disparities. Would you support an IHSAA mandated Minimum Participation Standard, where the IHSAA sets minimum acceptable roster numbers by class. If a school cannot meet the MPS, it must sit out varsity play for two seasons and either drop its program or rebuild its numbers.
 
Response
I would never support this.

Yes. Safety first.  Not adults living vicariously through their children.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes. Safety first.  Not adults living vicariously through their children.

 

If you can shed to light one ounce of data or evidence that suggests small/rural school football players are somehow more susceptible to CTE than players who play at larger, urban schools then I'm all ears. Until then, I'm going to need more than hyperbole and made up statistics, and sure as hell need more than, "Because DT says so", to jump on the contraction bandwagon. 

Sorry.

Edited by Footballking16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Keep grandstanding, maybe somebody one day will take you serious....

Question 7
We have unfortunately seen many game cancellations over the past few seasons, some related to Covid and many others due to low roster numbers. Small rosters create major problems for coaches and ADs as they negatively impact the ability to conduct a full practice, put student athletes into compromising positions relative to the potential for significant injury, and contribute to a very non competitive environment where schools might be playing each other with huge roster disparities. Would you support an IHSAA mandated Minimum Participation Standard, where the IHSAA sets minimum acceptable roster numbers by class. If a school cannot meet the MPS, it must sit out varsity play for two seasons and either drop its program or rebuild its numbers.
 
Response
I would never support this.

Glad you enjoyed the read.  Again, what's right at Cathedral is right for everyone else.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

If you can shed to light one ounce of data or evidence that suggests small/rural school football players are somehow more susceptible to CTE than players who play at larger, urban schools then I'm all ears. Until then, I'm going to need more than hyperbole and made up statistics to jump on the contraction bandwagon. 

Sorry.

We are not trying to get you on the bandwagon.  You are hopelessly clueless and demonstrably unable to consider anything other than statistical data.  Rational thought is not in your arsenal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, HHF said:

Glad you enjoyed the read.  Again, what's right at Cathedral is right for everyone else.  

He mentioned specifically that he coached at public schools for more than a decade.

I'll take his input over yours everyday and twice on Sunday. I wouldn't trust you fetching my trash cans let alone providing some kind of data or proof to the subject at hand. And it's simply because you can't. 

  • Disdain 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, HHF said:

We are not trying to get you on the bandwagon.  You are hopelessly clueless and demonstrably unable to consider anything other than statistical data.  Rational thought is not in your arsenal.

Oh wow, forgive me for not subscribing to something that isn't rooted in statistical data? If it was so rational you could provide at least one example of one of these catastrophic injuries you keep bringing alluding too, no? You've had all weekend to come up with something? Do you need more time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

He mentioned specifically that he coached at public schools for more than a decade.

I'll take his input over yours everyday and twice on Sunday. I wouldn't trust you fetching my trash cans let alone providing some kind of data or proof to the subject at hand. And it's simply because you can't. 

Im not in the data business.  Im in the opinion business.  Lets stay in our respective lanes.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

He mentioned specifically that he coached at public schools for more than a decade.

I'll take his input over yours everyday and twice on Sunday. I wouldn't trust you fetching my trash cans let alone providing some kind of data or proof to the subject at hand. And it's simply because you can't. 

Not exactly a problem Coach P has ever had to worry about.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

Will @hhpatriot04be stopping by to condemn these "personal attacks" or are those just reserved for me?

I was wondering the same.  A public condemnation is in order

Edited by HHF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Calling you out on your BS isn't a personal attack by the way. 

The manner in which you disagree absolutely are personal attacks.  Go back and read your responses.  Foxbat disagreed with HHF in a very positive manner....not making it personal.  Read his response and then with an open mind read yours.  Not sure why the bitterness or why you feel the need to demean others having an opinion differently than yours.  It really is a shame.....

Forums are made to discuss, debate, and offering different perspectives.  No one has to agree.  They are opinions.  Nothing more.  Not sure why you take everything so personal, feeling the need to attack those that feel differently.  Kind of character revealing actually.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

The manner in which you disagree absolutely are personal attacks.  Go back and read your responses.  Foxbat disagreed with HHF in a very positive manner....not making it personal.  Read his response and then with an open mind read yours.  Not sure why the bitterness or why you feel the need to demean others having an opinion differently than yours.  It really is a shame.....

LOL.

There is a 100% difference between "having an opinion" and then grandstanding the idea of contraction based on unfounded data and evidence as well as claims of hyperbolic and anecdotal evidence of catastrophic injuries that haven't occurred. Please don't fall into the category of not being able to distinguish between the two. I don't think I could possibly set the bar any lower for you as is. 

I have no problem with DT opining in his beliefs on contraction. But for the love of God do it on merit. "I said so" or "common sense" isn't a basis for which to form an opinion. Data however is and he hasn't provided a single source of evidence to back his claim. 

Edited by Footballking16
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://oklahomawatch.org/2017/10/09/student-concussions/

Quote

At least nine student athletes in Putnam City Public Schools suffered a concussion playing sports last school year.

More than a dozen sustained one in Norman Public Schools.

In Tulsa Public Schools, 38 students suffered a concussion in the 2016-2017 school year, with the district reporting 13 more in the first six weeks of this year. Edmond Public Schools’ three high schools recorded 62 concussions.

Across the state, hundreds, if not thousands, of student athletes each year sustain a concussion, a type of traumatic brain injury caused by a blow to the head that shakes the brain inside the skull. By one Tulsa researcher’s count, an average of one to three students receive a concussion at every Oklahoma high school every week.

A concussion can have long-lasting effects and can be fatal, which is why Oklahoma law requires a child with a suspected concussion to be pulled from the game or practice immediately.

That call should be made by an athletic trainer, a licensed medical professional trained to identify, treat and prevent potentially catastrophic conditions like brain injuries, several health organizations said. But about three in four schools in Oklahoma don’t have one.

“The only way to appropriately protect these kids is to make sure they have qualified medical staff on the sideline, and that would be an athletic trainer,” said Ron Walker, associate dean at the University of Tulsa’s Oxley College of Health Sciences.

All sports carry a risk of injury, some more than others. Sports also provide many benefits, teaching children about teamwork, winning and losing, and healthy lifestyles. Many parents agree the benefits outweigh the risk and want to make the games safer rather than see them disappear.

Many high schools with no athletic trainer are small ones in rural Oklahoma. But even larger districts are going without. Oklahoma City Public Schools, which has thousands of students participating in sports, hired full-time athletic trainers just this year, made possible by a three-year grant from the National Football League.

Across the state, the lack of athletic trainers in schools means concussions go undiagnosed, untreated and untracked.

....

 

Walker, who advocated for that law as well as a 2016 update extending the law to youth recreational teams and private schools, surveyed athletic trainers at 18 Oklahoma high schools for an entire school year to measure concussions.

The average was more than one per week in the fall, and three per week in the spring, for every high school.

A national survey in 2015-2016 estimated 342,497 concussions in high school athletes across the country. If that total were allocated by state per capita, it would translate into several thousand in Oklahoma. The study is conducted annually by the Colorado School of Public Health.

 

Sometimes, the injury can have long-lasting effects. In 2016, a Holdenville High School football player suffered a head injury during a game and required surgery and was hospitalized for months. Last month, a running back at  Union High School in Tulsa suffered a traumatic brain injury and underwent surgery, the district disclosed on Friday.

Sometimes, injuries can be fatal. Since 1982, 185 high school student athletes nationally have died from causes tied to their sport.  Of those, 126 were playing football.

....

Many concussions occur outside of competition. According to that report, head injuries, including concussions, were the most common injury both in games and practice for all sports combined, accounting for 28 percent of game injuries and 20 percent of practice injuries.

Walker, the TU researcher, surveyed 18 Oklahoma high schools in 2014-2015 and found 80 percent of injuries were happening during practice, with 20 percent at games.

....

 

AND

https://ksi.uconn.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1222/2017/10/2325967117727262.pdf

Indiana Ranks 28th out of 50.

AND 

https://watermark.silverchair.com/1062-6050-50_2_03.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAsMwggK_BgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggKwMIICrAIBADCCAqUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMuEnbDdFwDbFK5vJiAgEQgIICdiZF2OQhVaG-g9U3SW7AdYahX5cvusSBuGScOeX8Y2jnKvkFS11Ri4nDk3dJSxt5hFCd_7ICqMbD26bs4vJz5oDROwm2uIYuZUcYibjRbfg7blFgY_tpYJFsEb_efl7wOBZEjyxzwBRGaKi-iifcnsZwDMDlHJBhE9LNcWyAct7p80qw1QZmxpiG-C1SyWHRV1kU-oY0P7JFQ065MTRitmiuTOxGBPi36nm9lErcfoXt9g9c3izJK3XpkI2THQwOeoHTiS42DkGN0v-8Q2hMytYZDQrwLAiBa3srtDdhNap6oIrBWYyntrDt6S6qWT25JRY1_rtvLt32WWwQtBl8kzkP3tRiO2MPitQxcGodpqYYC8KdeElvcy7qfazWfKisP9j4SFP-S7K-ozEfZVcMbLqGvTDPAN3ee5GFH3gY8zeswt6szCyhakML5zUwN36kJD_QJKH2DeZDPSsMSc5C6EwU-Omhezw0GufvVFF5iaWVsdFAegiO8Oyxq8ibE2A8JVdRUp1JsetArBxWMfmmxF8uRHCI6VUNCU8nLbA4cGtqajlhQ_ieRuMWSUYe6hAjLhvwOAjEgqaHNI_GaD0Mni8LQMQmj3cs3HmxTMCUTJTFH5XD7XKQCB0GVD2t7zBXkxpsOKkhNjl3HfAslbOTsNeNzcCupGjZBecs7IHX9Iapr2haqZEXes4BNKetK7TFXkss94G9W36wwPQnKV800K9xsPfQcdwulo9w8TyPf1SjqEwms-ZrX_HCxNzW07pb_llMeexOZXFsWBThn2dtm8eSuStBD8wvQn3EAItWBv3pMfoo83YOIi977dD5wqUUOly4qoFkpA

Charts in this study lists Indiana as having 149 schools without athletic training services.

Playing football is dangerous to the youth of Indiana.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Thanks.....the last link is not working though. I am curious about the 149 schools without athletic training services though. My thinking is the insurance providers would require them for schools they cover. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Thanks.....the last link is not working though. I am curious about the 149 schools without athletic training services though. My thinking is the insurance providers would require them for schools they cover. 

Yeah, it's no longer working for me as well, getting some kind of session has time out message. Weird.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...