New Pal @ Cathedral

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, Dave007 said:

If we plow through remainder of playoffs with sizeable win margin I will be very disappointed if Cathedral brass does not lobby/petition IHSSA to move to 6A in fall 2022.  

I have a feeling the IHSAA will cook something up that doesn't allow Cathedral to remain in 5A next year if they don't accumulate enough points/petition to move up.

It was a few years ago and Cathedral was technically scheduled to move back to 4A because they lost in the sectional finals to Decatur and out of nowhere the IHSAA changed the criteria for necessary points needed to remain in a class. I believe it was from 4 to 2, but could be wrong on that. They lost to Columbus East in the semi-finals and earned 3 points but then lost the following year in the sectional finals to Decatur earning 0. 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Footballking16

[TigerFan20]

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I believe it was from 4 to 2, but could be wrong on that.

I believe it was originally 3 points 

[Footballking16]

23 minutes ago, TigerFan20 said:

I believe it was originally 3 points 

That makes sense.

Cathedral only accumulated 2 points in 2017 (regional win) and 0 in 18.

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Dave007 said:

If we plow through remainder of playoffs with sizeable win margin I will be very disappointed if Cathedral brass does not lobby/petition IHSSA to move to 6A in fall 2022.  

No dog in the fight but honestly, I wouldn't lobby petition to play anywhere (down or up). I would sit back and let them move you to where you fall (enrollment, success factor etc). Just leave it up to the IHSAA (like every other team/school). Success on the field moves you up, non success puts you in you're enrollment class. I have respect for many programs.

Do you honestly believe (no offense to New Pal) that if New Pal loses Friday night they will petition to stay in 5A or will they allow themselves to go back down to 4A. I don't mean that in a mean way at all, most likely they they are going to let the IHSAA move them wherever they should be. I don't think that should be any different for any school be it Private/PP or Public. Play where they place you!

[Footballking16]

24 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

No dog in the fight but honestly, I wouldn't lobby petition to play anywhere (down or up). I would sit back and let them move you to where you fall (enrollment, success factor etc). Just leave it up to the IHSAA (like every other team/school). Success on the field moves you up, non success puts you in you're enrollment class. I have respect for many programs.

Do you honestly believe (no offense to New Pal) that if New Pal loses Friday night they will petition to stay in 5A or will they allow themselves to go back down to 4A. I don't mean that in a mean way at all, most likely they they are going to let the IHSAA move them wherever they should be. I don't think that should be any different for any school be it Private/PP or Public. Play where they place you!

100% agree.

I have no problem with Cathedral playing in 6A and actually would prefer to see them in 6A. But at the same time, they shouldn't be forced to petition up nor receive the backlash they do on boards like these for playing where the IHSAA places them. It's silly. 

[Sports Freak20]

39 minutes ago, TigerFan20 said:

Thank you! Going to be a packed house in Enlow! And good luck against New Palestine

Thank you!

[CaptainHook]

For the most part, the Tournament Success Factor has done what it intended, bumping parochial schools up.  New Palestine and Columbus East have been the public schools most effected, but both have done well enough to not complain too much (East may have a legit complaint).

In my opinion, Cathedral plays a 6A schedule, and should request to play in 6A playoffs in Indiana.  They don't.  That's fine.  

I would like to see a rule where a parochial starts one class above its enrollment, and a public cannot be bumped more than one class over its enrollment.  Neither New Palestine or Columbus East have any business playing in 6A.  East was unlucky enough that their run of success came in the same two year cycle, while NP's was split over two cycles, which is silly.  Cathedral should be in 5A or 6A at a minimum, which the Tournament Success Factor has done.  They should never slum it in 4A again.

 

[IndianaWrestlingGuy]

23 minutes ago, CaptainHook said:

They should never slum it in 4A again.

 

You are forgetting that our red-neck south side second cousins are running through 4A. Someone needs to make sure the Rebels/Royals don't get any more state titles than they deserve. But, generally, I agree with you. 
 

As for success factor gerrymandering, we never know what the IHSAA will do with us. It's why we don't go out of our way to petition anything. 

[Sports Freak20]

42 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

You are forgetting that our red-neck south side second cousins are running through 4A. Someone needs to make sure the Rebels/Royals don't get any more state titles than they deserve. But, generally, I agree with you. 
 

As for success factor gerrymandering, we never know what the IHSAA will do with us. It's why we don't go out of our way to petition anything. 

LIKE:  You are forgetting that our red-neck south side second cousins are running through 4A. Someone needs to make sure the Rebels/Royals don't get any more state titles than they deserve. But, generally, I agree with you. 

[FastpacedO]

10 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

For the most part, the Tournament Success Factor has done what it intended, bumping parochial schools up.  New Palestine and Columbus East have been the public schools most effected, but both have done well enough to not complain too much (East may have a legit complaint).

In my opinion, Cathedral plays a 6A schedule, and should request to play in 6A playoffs in Indiana.  They don't.  That's fine.  

I would like to see a rule where a parochial starts one class above its enrollment, and a public cannot be bumped more than one class over its enrollment.  Neither New Palestine or Columbus East have any business playing in 6A.  East was unlucky enough that their run of success came in the same two year cycle, while NP's was split over two cycles, which is silly.  Cathedral should be in 5A or 6A at a minimum, which the Tournament Success Factor has done.  They should never slum it in 4A again.

 

The only reason I don't like this is because most only think of the strong Parochial/Private schools (Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli, Lutheran, etc). There are however Private/Parochial schools that don't enjoy success that this would effect (Providence, Oldenburg Academy, Hammond Noll, Park Tudor). That is why I like the Success Factor it addresses teams with success as there are Public schools that enjoy success. When it comes to schedules I really don't see that being a determining factor, Schools that are not in a conference schedule whoever they can get each year. Some years those schedules are tougher than other years.

[Lysander]

10 hours ago, CaptainHook said:

For the most part, the Tournament Success Factor has done what it intended, bumping parochial schools up.  New Palestine and Columbus East have been the public schools most effected, but both have done well enough to not complain too much (East may have a legit complaint).

In my opinion, Cathedral plays a 6A schedule, and should request to play in 6A playoffs in Indiana.  They don't.  That's fine.  

I would like to see a rule where a parochial starts one class above its enrollment, and a public cannot be bumped more than one class over its enrollment.  Neither New Palestine or Columbus East have any business playing in 6A.  East was unlucky enough that their run of success came in the same two year cycle, while NP's was split over two cycles, which is silly.  Cathedral should be in 5A or 6A at a minimum, which the Tournament Success Factor has done.  They should never slum it in 4A again.

 

First, I agree that the Success Factor has achieved some of its goals. But, as in most all legislation, there is the “law of unintended consequences”.  Unexpectedly, I would call the result the “law of unintended excellence” which resulted in the various successes of Columbus East and New Palestine in both their class of origin and their “bumped” class (for the record, only Cathedral and Evansville Memorial have also accomplished that same level of success).  I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching their various successes as a fan.

I agree, personally, with your thoughts of parochials/privates playing one class above enrollment with no limits on “bumps” (perhaps inferred by you - if not stated).  

With that, the problem is that not every parochial/private is Cathedral, Chatard, Evansville Memorial, Evansville Matre Dei, Ft. Wayne Dwenger, Ft Wayne Luers, Lafayette Central Catholic, or  Roncalli.  There are probably another 25 plus parochial/privates that should NOT be penalized by the success of the 8 teams I listed.  

Believe me, I’d personally like nothing more than to see Chatard a permanent feature in 4A. Even so, I’m not sure the success of the few merits penalizing the majority…..that’s the worry I have.  

Aside from that, outside of any personal feeling I might have about another private/parochial school, their regular season schedule should not dictate the class they play in.  Neither should they be expected to ask the IHSAA to move them up a class. 
 

 

[Lysander]

Additionally, I’m totally confused about the Success Factor this year.  My take on it is that if it were consistent is that there is NO WAY Cathedral should move up next year regardless of this season’s results….same goes for Roncalli.  This is Year 1 of the cycle…which is not a rolling cycle (which it likely should be….except it’s NOT).

Edited November 10, 2021 by Lysander

[IndianaWrestlingGuy]

.......unless it is a rolling cycle. Depends what side of the bed the IHSAA wakes up on. Time will tell. 🤪 

[Slobberknocker]

I think New Palestine wins by three touchdowns.

[Footballking16]

26 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

I think New Palestine wins by three touchdowns.

Gotta score 3 TD's to win by 3 TD's. Think they'd need to play this game 2-3 times for that to happen 

[FastpacedO]

13 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

I think New Palestine wins by three touchdowns.

Interesting

[TigerFan20]

Give me 8-2 Cathedral, all points in safeties 

[Slobberknocker]

12 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Gotta score 3 TD's to win by 3 TD's. Think they'd need to play this game 2-3 times for that to happen 

Brebeuf scored 21 pts on Cathedral why not NP

[Footballking16]

23 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

Brebeuf scored 21 pts on Cathedral why not NP

Because Brebeuf scored 2 garbage TD's late against the 3rd team and Brebeuf is significantly better than New Pal. 

41-7 Cathedral.

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Footballking16

[IndianaWrestlingGuy]

Discounting CG's final garbage time TD when they could have kneeled on it, the starting Irish D has given up 8 TDs this season. None so far in the playoffs. 

[Footballking16]

19 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Discounting CG's final garbage time TD when they could have kneeled on it, the starting Irish D has given up 8 TDs this season. None so far in the playoffs. 

I don't fault CG for scoring there. They mathematically couldn't have run out the clock and it was still only a one score game. Don't like it, stop them.  

[Dave007]

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't fault CG for scoring there. They mathematically couldn't have run out the clock and it was still only a one score game. Don't like it, stop them.  

I agree, it was smart play by CG and we would have done the same if the roles were reversed.

[Lysander]

1 hour ago, Slobberknocker said:

I think New Palestine wins by three touchdowns.

I have a Dead Drop PO Box that you might wish to shunt off some certain illegal substances to before the Feds close in.

[FastpacedO]

42 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

Brebeuf scored 21 pts on Cathedral why not NP

So are you saying NP will beat Cathedral 21-0? Not sure what you mean. BTW the Cathedral vs Brebeuf game was 38-7 prior to subbing, Brebeuf scored 14 points in the 4th qtr against 2nd and 3rd string defense.

3 minutes ago, Lysander said:

I have a Dead Drop PO Box that you might wish to shunt off some certain illegal substances to before the Feds close in.

😂 always helping the helpless. I could see someone predicting a win by a FG or something but a 3 TWow just wow! win. w

[Grover]

45 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Discounting CG's final garbage time TD when they could have kneeled on it, the starting Irish D has given up 8 TDs this season. None so far in the playoffs. 

Taking a knee in a one possession game on a sloppy wet field that had already caused at least one fumbled snap?   Doesn’t make sense.