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      HEAD COACH OPENING 2018   11/01/2017

      CONFIRMED HEAD COACH CHANGES IN 2018 Lafayette Central Catholic;  Don Collier  Kankakee Valley:  Zack Prairie  Valparaiso:  Dave Coyle  Evansville North:  Brett Szabo  Hamilton Southeastern:  Scott May Peru:  Bob Prescott  North Daviees:  Scott Helms  Evansville Central:  Andy Owens  River Forest: Austen Robison  Shelbyville:  Pat Parks 
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Valparaiso Football Coaching Situation

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If the situation was purely about school rules then the HC should have let the AD handle the situation.  Instead (from my understanding) he verbally berated the player in front of his family and teammates and ordered him off the field.  This isn't about "inmates running the asylum".  This is about a head coach who was on a power trip thattook a personal situation and took it out on a kid.  He was given the opportunity to apologize and to try to make things right and he refused.  It was more important to him to stand his ground than to exercise a small act of contrition for the sake of the team that had such a great season.  I guarantee this was not the first time this issue came up, but Coyle made his decision.  He planted his flag and he lost.  He's the selfish one in this situation.  Players make mistakes and coaches do too.  He made a mistake in how he handled this situation and he refused to apologize or take responsibility for his actions.  This is on him.

Just my take.

 

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So maybe, just maybe, coach thought that if he knowingly violated a school rule he would have been reprimanded. In today’s society, ANY rule that is even close to being broken is grounds for suspension or expulsion. This is the monster of these modern times. Seems to me he was in a no win position.

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Haven't read all of the posts, but if I was the kid who was injured playing for my school, had surgery the day of the game and then was told I couldn't even watch the game from the stands, I'd be royally p####d off. I'm surprised anyone would even try to enforce that rule.  But that's just me. 

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44 minutes ago, SpartanFan said:

Haven't read all of the posts, but if I was the kid who was injured playing for my school, had surgery the day of the game and then was told I couldn't even watch the game from the stands, I'd be royally p####d off. I'm surprised anyone would even try to enforce that rule.  But that's just me. 

Entitlement attitude. 

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6 hours ago, HoopsCoach said:

I agree with all that you said here.  You won’t get many to agree here because most are coaches that will always take the side of fellow coaches.  I don’t know why an exception could not have been made to allow the player to be there to support his teammates.  Policy or not, administrators and coaches ask for trouble when they put enforcement of black and white rules over compassion for others.  The message the players got from the coach’s enforcement of the school policy was that the player supporting his teammates wasn’t a valid reason for making an exception.  So school policy is more important than being able to support those you have worked and battled with throughout the season and your playing career.  There are times when it is ok to make an exception to a policy, and this should have been one of them.  Couldn’t care less about the outcome of the game, or the opinions of all the a-holes saying these kids got what they deserved when they lost.  I respect them for doing what they believed was right.  If it wasn’t for people standing up to authority figures when they are wrong, this country wouldn’t even exist.  Were the founding fathers a bunch of crybabies that weren’t as tough as the generations before them?  If they were, count me in as a supporter of the crybabies.

You are absolutely correct Hoops coach. Any rule that stipulates that a senior that has dedicated the past 4 years of his life to a program that was living out a dream season, cannot even sit in the STANDS to watch his brothers play a game,  is a rule that needs to be changed. People thought Jim Crow rules were just at the time. I would have more respect for a coach that showed more compassion and loyalty to the injured senior. If there is no avenue where that player is permitted to watch that game, then I fault the admiration for poor site based management.

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14 minutes ago, Gonzoron said:

Entitlement attitude. 

Yes, if I had to have surgery from an injury playing for my school team, I'd darn well feel entitled to go to the game. Otherwise, they're playing me for a sap.

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 Jeeez people, Jim Crow?  Comparing them to the Founders?  Dial it back a bit.  

Some of you guys must need an oxygen mask to breath on those high horses.

My guess is there is a ton more context here than any of us know.   

Aside from that, just when did Coaches get to make the call on what school rules they follow on any given day?  Can the principal?  Can the superintendent?  

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I don't really know or care what happened.  Everyone is just piecing things together here & I imagine there are some pieces missing.  Based on all the speculation, I will say this.  Imagine if the Valpo HC didn't follow the school corp rules here and let the kid be on the sideline after missing school that day.  What if another kid had a similar situation earlier in the year...could have been football or any other sport at Valpo and that kid wasn't allowed to attend their game that night.   What if that kid/parent had decided to complain to the Valpo administration about the preferred treatment a Valpo football player received because he was a Valpo football player or because he was the son of a Valpo football coach?  Like I said, none of us know the whole situation but the whole situation is unfortunate.   I also have to believe that if there had been some communication between the asst. coach/dad & the HC about the kid being on the sideline beforehand, this whole situation could have been avoided.

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20 hours ago, SpartanFan said:

Haven't read all of the posts, but if I was the kid who was injured playing for my school, had surgery the day of the game and then was told I couldn't even watch the game from the stands, I'd be royally p####d off. I'm surprised anyone would even try to enforce that rule.  But that's just me. 

I'd generally suggest reading all of the posts first though it might not change your opinion....but, at least, act like you are paying attention.

Thoughts as regards some of the other "great" points having been made:

1. Lots of stupid rules p#ss me off...some a helluva lot more consequential in my life than not being able to go to a game I couldn't play in.  Some cost me 100s of thousands of dollars.  Some cost my kids more than you could possibly imagine in hurt and pain...newly made up rules in their case.  Life is jam-packed full of stupid rules.  Believe me, missing a football game in the stands is pretty miniscule.  This "standing by my "bros" crap" excuse I have seen from others is...well crap.  Some of this drama/tragedy seems like something I'd attribute to a bad soap opera.

2.  Reschedule the surgery if you want to stand by your "bros" - it would appear your season is over anyway. If you can go to the game that same day it must be minor surgery...kind of like wart removal.  Though, apparently it is season ending...apparently.  

3. The season had at least one more game at home.  Didn't Penn play Valpo AT Valpo (maybe I am wrong)?  It wasn't like the week prior was the last game he would EVER see his "bros" at his home field.

NOW, I have made just as an uninformed response as some of you.  I admit it is just as fully uninformed...but, at least its logical based on the information we have seen cited.

As I have said, there is likely SO much info we don't really have here. 

I am arguably the biggest sentimentalist, teary-eyed guy here but I think Gonzoron may well be right as regards an "Entitlement Attitude".

I truly wonder what most of the kids on the Valpo team will say 25 years from now. 

Will they say "We had a team that had a chance to make it to a State Championship except for a bunch of "prima donnas" who forced our coach to resign because he refused to break the school rules for a player who wanted him to break them "? 

Will they say, "I am so proud that we lost a chance to go to the State Championship because I threatened to quit the team because the coach refused to let a player sit in the stands because the coach was following the school rules and we forced him to resign"?

Extreme alternatives, maybe. 

But don't tell me its about the "kids".  My guess is there might be a few more kids on that team than the one who wanted to sit in the stands (and could have stood on the home sidelines the following week) and those who walked out - and they ain't the Founding Fathers.  

Sorry. 

I get teary-eyed about the rest of the team.

Edited by Lysander
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I wonder what would have happened if the school administration had told the seniors that turned in their gear in protest that they had in effect quite the team and were no longer eligible to play in the Penn game and that by quitting the team they also did not finish the season in good standing and thus would not be eligible for any post-season awards such as varsity letters etc. I feel like if the coach had to be held accountable for his actions then these senior players should have been held accountable for their actions.

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As a whole, everyone in Valpo seems to be keeping relatively silent. But simply based upon the fact that all of the players who boycotted practice were allowed back on the team without punishment & that the rest of the staff still coached the Penn game, it would appear that the school administration quietly backed the players' position & sided against Coach Coyle.   

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2 hours ago, slice60 said:

As a whole, everyone in Valpo seems to be keeping relatively silent. But simply based upon the fact that all of the players who boycotted practice were allowed back on the team without punishment & that the rest of the staff still coached the Penn game, it would appear that the school administration quietly backed the players' position & sided against Coach Coyle.   

Where have you been? This is one of the biggest no $#&% statements I have ever seen :44_v:

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Maybe I already missed this, but did the student who knowingly violated the rule and further disrespected the coach when he was told to not be on the field receive any consequences from the school?  

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Just now, Bittergymteacher said:

Maybe I already missed this, but did the student who knowingly violated the rule and further disrespected the coach when he was told to not be on the field receive any consequences from the school?  

I am from the area (nwi-wheatfield) and I have not seen anything reported in the papers.

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1 hour ago, Bittergymteacher said:

Maybe I already missed this, but did the student who knowingly violated the rule and further disrespected the coach when he was told to not be on the field receive any consequences from the school?  

Man, I got a "downvote" for a question.....rough crowd!!!  If the coach acted in an unprofessional manner that warranted a termination, then I have no problem with that.  I was not there, so I have no idea.  I would think that maybe there was some bad blood there to begin with but who knows.  All I ask is if the student who clearly and knowingly was in the wrong with his action also received a consequence.  

 

To be honest, I would be okay if they fired the coach for his actions, suspended the student who refused to honor the coach's wishes and school board appointed rule,  and put away the seniors pads who turned in their stuff early.  Athlete's have a right to have their voices heard but saying "if I don't get my way, I quit." is unacceptable.  If you want to threaten to quit, I will hang your pads up for you.  If you want to have a mature conversation and talk about what we can do as a team to make this better, let's grow and talk together.  Teaching kids that they can threaten to quit and give them what they want is a horrible example to set.  Not knowing all the exact details. this is just my opinion based off of what I have read and what I am witnessing with the youth of today.

Edited by Bittergymteacher
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1 hour ago, Bittergymteacher said:

Man, I got a "downvote" for a question.....rough crowd!!!  If the coach acted in an unprofessional manner that warranted a termination, then I have no problem with that.  I was not there, so I have no idea.  I would think that maybe there was some bad blood there to begin with but who knows.  All I ask is if the student who clearly and knowingly was in the wrong with his action also received a consequence.  

 

To be honest, I would be okay if they fired the coach for his actions, suspended the student who refused to honor the coach's wishes and school board appointed rule,  and put away the seniors pads who turned in their stuff early.  Athlete's have a right to have their voices heard but saying "if I don't get my way, I quit." is unacceptable.  If you want to threaten to quit, I will hang your pads up for you.  If you want to have a mature conversation and talk about what we can do as a team to make this better, let's grow and talk together.  Teaching kids that they can threaten to quit and give them what they want is a horrible example to set.  Not knowing all the exact details. this is just my opinion based off of what I have read and what I am witnessing with the youth of today.

My understanding of the situation is that the players attempted to do exactly that.  They attempted a mature conversation.  I have been told that there were meetings and discussions with school administrators before and after the walkout of practice.  The article admits that Coyle had an ill-timed tirade and he refused to apologize or show any contrition.  How can we ask the players to act like grown-ups when it sounds to me like the coach couldn't act like one himself?  I've said it before.  This is on Coyle.  All he had to do was say he was sorry and that he went too far.  Let the administration take care of what happens to the player.

As a side note, I've learned to be very careful of sports writers when they take positions on these matters.  They often have friendships and relationships they need to protect or maintain.  It's not exactly a good idea for a local sports reporter to go after a high school coach.  Other coaches notice it and your access to stories relies on the coaches at the high school level.

Edited by slicer28
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9 minutes ago, slicer28 said:

My understanding of the situation is that the players attempted to do exactly that.  They attempted a mature conversation.  I have been told that there were meetings and discussions with school administrators before and after the walkout of practice.  The article admits that Coyle had an ill-timed tirade and he refused to apologize or show any contrition.  How can we ask the players to act like grown-ups when it sounds to me like the coach couldn't act like one himself?  I've said it before.  This is on Coyle.  All he had to do was say he was sorry and that he went too far.  Let the administration take care of what happens to the player.

As a side note, I've learned to be very careful of sports writers when they take positions on these matters.  They often have friendships and relationships they need to protect or maintain.  It's not exactly a good idea for a local sports reporter to go after a high school coach.  Other coaches notice it and your access to stories relies on the coaches at the high school level.

If the school didn't suspend or punish the player, why should Coyle apologize? My guess is the player was flat out was insubordinate. It's pretty dumb for him to apologize if the kid flat out refused to listen to him and a SOP that was put in place and the admin does nothing about it. Who would want to work for a school like that?

Edited by Canoe Fest Charlie
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1 minute ago, Canoe Fest Charlie said:

If the school didn't suspend or punish the player, why should Coyle apologize?

I don't think it matters if they suspended or punished the player or not.  If the school administration decided that it wasn't worthy of punishment or suspension then Coyle certainly owed an apology.  Even if they did suspend or punish he clearly (even per the story posted above) did not handle the situation appropriately and should have addressed it appropriately with the team.

  From all I have been told, there were personal issues involved, it was senior night (and he is a senior), the kid had surgery for a football related injury, it was an excused absence (he didn't skip school).  Coyle should have alerted his AD and let him handle whether or not the player was allowed to be at the game.  Coyle didn't want the kid to participate in his senior night....think about that.  Every coach I know would have gone straight to the AD/Supt./School Board as far as he needed to go to be sure that one of his seniors could be with his team and his family for senior night.

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3 hours ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

I am from the area (nwi-wheatfield) and I have not seen anything reported in the papers.

Yep, crickets.  I even listen to the beginning of the football coverage on the Lakeshore (89.1 FM) on Friday nights.  Tommie Williams and Wayne Svetanoff don't seem to know a thing either.

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14 hours ago, slicer28 said:

My understanding of the situation is that the players attempted to do exactly that.  They attempted a mature conversation.  I have been told that there were meetings and discussions with school administrators before and after the walkout of practice.  The article admits that Coyle had an ill-timed tirade and he refused to apologize or show any contrition.  How can we ask the players to act like grown-ups when it sounds to me like the coach couldn't act like one himself?  I've said it before.  This is on Coyle.  All he had to do was say he was sorry and that he went too far.  Let the administration take care of what happens to the player.

As a side note, I've learned to be very careful of sports writers when they take positions on these matters.  They often have friendships and relationships they need to protect or maintain.  It's not exactly a good idea for a local sports reporter to go after a high school coach.  Other coaches notice it and your access to stories relies on the coaches at the high school level.

Deleted all of my remarks.

I simply give up.

Go Valpo folks!  You are the (very sensitive) future!

I'm buying Chinese language lessons in preparation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lysander
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Interesting that it sounds like many of the coaches supported coach Coyle.... a coach/parent of a player seems to have taken the approach of being a dad and not a coach....  Valpo lost a good coach and a great man because parents get in the way... hopefully at some point he and the other coaches can finally talk and set the story straight

 

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5 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

Interesting that it sounds like many of the coaches supported coach Coyle.... a coach/parent of a player seems to have taken the approach of being a dad and not a coach....  Valpo lost a good coach and a great man because parents get in the way... hopefully at some point he and the other coaches can finally talk and set the story straight

 

Are you saying that many of the football coaches on the Valpo staff supported Coach Coyle? Did some of his assistants resign at the same time or do you know that some plan to resign & look elsewhere to teach/coach in the future?

Lots of folks keep bringing up/blaming the parents-- everything I have read states it was a player-led boycott after the team leaders spoke to the school administration without a resolution. I just re-read the Hutton article. The word "parent" is listed twice in his article-- both times simply as a source:

According to the parent of a senior on the team, the situation worsened over the weekend, when Coyle didn't offer any type of contrition.

and

Coyle's resignation wasn't universally embraced. One parent of a player on the team said some "kids were upset" about losing him.  

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I would love to see those in support of the player, try to be a coach.  Sounds like you would give special privileges to some and not others... 
See where that gets you...  :02_v: It's so much harder than you think. 
Lets just agree that the situation stinks for all involved.  None of us really know how we would have reacted in the situation. 

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