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komets3001

Snider vs Carmel Regional Championship

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1 hour ago, Gonzoron said:

Who are they looking to recruit?

. . I can remember my father being transferred from Homewood ,IL. when I went to Homewood-Flossmoor HS, to Ft Wayne, IN back in the mid '70s. . My father wanted to make sure we moved into a school district that had all the academic and sports cultures we were looking for. . Ft Wayne is a city that has many people relocating in and out of. . I thank him for loving me enough to do this, not to mention he enjoys being part of a community that really cares about maintaining a high standard of success on and off the field.. and beyond school. . If I was being relocated to Ft Wayne, with kids still in school, Snider is where I'd want to send my children. .I'm sure there are others out there that feel the same..

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On 11/11/2017 at 9:38 AM, komets3001 said:

Let’s be honest as I have heard many an official say they literally could call holding on every play. Several calls went against lCarmel as well and gives further justification that I wasn’t looking thru rose colored glasses thinking Snider does all wrong and is perfect and Carmel were the villains, not hardly the case. Sadly, this crew couldn’t understand how jet sweep wasn’t illegal procedure and of the 5 times they ran it here comes the flag on 4 of the plays. Surely this wasn’t the first time they called a game with jet sweeps being run. Pas interference calls were bad as well. One was legit, the other was bad. What possibly could sn official be looking when a ball is yards under thrown and supposedly the player interfered with his ability to catch an uncatchabke ball . The bogus holding calls on both teams were bad. Sure there were a couple that needed to be called but I thought somewhere around 8 holding calls were made. Multiple discussions throughout the game as the crew didn’t seem in agreement on a few calls either.

Having been an ihsaa official myself in the past I understand the scrutiny that comes with it all too well. 50% of the fans love and 50% hate you. I totally get it. My issue is when the officials, referees, and umpires interject themselves into a game needlessly.Eregregious fouls and penalties must be called, especially when the infraction gives the team committing dais infraction a distinct advantage, but borderline stuff needs to be a play on situation. When an official makes himself/ herself bigger then the game that is an issue. When the inconsistency from quarter is so bad the players don’t know what is what,

Just want to clear something up.....There is no "uncatchable ball" rule in High School.  

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On 11/11/2017 at 2:09 PM, bobref said:

That’s a foul 100% of the time.

That is Running into the kicker....should be 5 yards and replay 4th down.  The contact was not to the plant leg, and that is a key in roughing or running into......

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23 hours ago, BTF said:

Everyone seems to be of the opinion that the "roughing the kicker" penalty was unfortunate and not intentional. Why was that not "running" into the kicker. And if it WAS running into the kicker, I believe Snider would have gotten the ball back. It was 4th and 11

That should have been running into the kicker.  I think many on this board would be amazed at how the officials are "selected" for the tournament.   This crew is in the system and will work a state final game next year.  Lets just be clear, many of the crews working still are good, but there are many crews that do just as good of job or better.  It all comes down to coaches vote and once a crew gets past Sectional, they have a distinct and unfair advantage to keep moving up.  There is a crew in the state that worked a state final in 1978...working state final games every 4 years since 1978?  Not sure it is the same crew or same R, so not sure how that happens.   There is even a R that had to be removed from sectional basketball game due to not being able to keep up, but he is working Regional football game.  

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47 minutes ago, falconsfbref said:

That is Running into the kicker....should be 5 yards and replay 4th down.  The contact was not to the plant leg, and that is a key in roughing or running into......

Disagree.

Edited by bobref

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37 minutes ago, falconsfbref said:

That should have been running into the kicker.  I think many on this board would be amazed at how the officials are "selected" for the tournament.   This crew is in the system and will work a state final game next year.  Lets just be clear, many of the crews working still are good, but there are many crews that do just as good of job or better.  It all comes down to coaches vote and once a crew gets past Sectional, they have a distinct and unfair advantage to keep moving up.  There is a crew in the state that worked a state final in 1978...working state final games every 4 years since 1978?  Not sure it is the same crew or same R, so not sure how that happens.   There is even a R that had to be removed from sectional basketball game due to not being able to keep up, but he is working Regional football game.  

No he didn't.  Don't believe every "used Car" that is sold to you......:15_v:

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4 hours ago, psaboy said:

I would be interesting in knowing how many penalties Snider had last year at Westfield, did they lose their composer after they went up 10-0? I know the big difference in game was the Westfield's special teams, but did Snider go thug again after taking lead and getting dumb flags such as unsportsmanlike like, personal foul, roughing, etc?

Penalties 2016: Snider 7-40, Westfield 3-19. Not much discussion in the thread after the game. Sounds like a lot of dropped passes by Snider may have been the difference:

On 11/19/2016 at 8:59 AM, psaboy said:

I beg to differ a bit on this. I saw Haupert making the passes, receivers were dropping the ball. Hippenhammer drops 3-4, Dellinger the TE (sp?) drops a huge one down the middle for big gainer in 4th an WR (can't) recall name drops one deep in Rocks zone.

 

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3 hours ago, falconsfbref said:

That is Running into the kicker....should be 5 yards and replay 4th down.  The contact was not to the plant leg, and that is a key in roughing or running into......

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for your insight.

2 hours ago, bobref said:

Disagree.

Why?

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2 minutes ago, BTF said:

That's what I was thinking. Thanks for your insight.

Why?

As I explained previously, the severity of the contact makes it roughing.

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52 minutes ago, Gonzoron said:

Penalties 2016: Snider 7-40, Westfield 3-19. Not much discussion in the thread after the game. Sounds like a lot of dropped passes by Snider may have been the difference:

 

Yes, now I think I recall that Snider did have hard time catching ball last year. 

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On 11/11/2017 at 9:35 AM, SpartanFan said:

Great game between Snider and Carmel. It's a shame that Snider lost after being up by 14. I was pulling for them.

-Regarding the officiating, I sat on the Carmel side and early in the game they were the ones ticked off by the # of calls against their team. There were a lot of penalties called on both teams, but I wouldn't argue with how they called the game. That is, they called the penalties I saw... 

-That 70 yard TD run by Snider's QB was something! I didn't realize he was that fast. It looked like the DB had an angle on him but he pulled away. 

-I couldn't see the tackle that drew the personal foul but the two Snider guys I talked too right after it happened said there was nothing wrong with it. 

- But then they also thought the pass interference call along the Carmel sideline against Snider was a bad call. That one I did see and I thought the officials would flag it when it happened. The defender had his hands on receiver and never looked to the ball. 

- Talking to 2 other guys, they said that Snider had 4 guys who played for Homestead last year- 3 were on the field playing defense. I thought that was kind of funny. 

- Carmel was big but didn't seem to be a big as the last two years when they played Homestead in the Regional Not sure if that's right but that's what it seemed to me. 

- Carmel fans (a lot of them) had popcorn kernels in plastic jugs that they would shake as noise makers after big plays by Carmel, whenever Snider was on offense, etc. I hadn't seen that before.  It was rather irritating IMHO. 

-RE the roughing the punter call- I do think the refs need to err on the side of safety. The two times my son got hurt (knee injury both times) playing was from being hit while punting. One was a blocked punt as a junior and one was 8th grade (can't remember if they called anything or not but I don't believe the punt was blocked.) Punters are really exposed when their leg is extended and their foot is above their head!

Fun game to watch. Good luck to Carmel and Penn next week.

Haupert is, what i think a pretty good QB, the kid is blazing fast as we saw the other night. I think he is not as bad a passer as some think. I wonder if he is getting any looks for FCS or D2 teams?

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Before this year, I have seen Carmel come into Ft. Wayne from 2013 - 2016 and just blow the doors off of the 6A teams from this area. I have had family on the previous 4 teams of recent and I believe many on this board are missing  the critical points of this game...Snider went toe-toe with one of the best programs in the state and should be proud of a great season. It was fun to see for sure.  It doesn't matter if everyone is saying this Carmel team is down or that they are the 3rd-4th best team in the MIC. The digest is great for sound-offs and hate mail type dialogue but most "good" games come down to 1-3 plays. If you understand one thing about football you must understand that...The roughing the kicker play was one play for sure and maybe should not have been called... the late fumble was another big play. In my opinion... the punt/safety was the biggest. A big part of these close games are Special Teams and it cost Snider the game...Right there are the biggest 3 plays of the game...As for the penalties...even though Carmel committed more they were probably even in terms of impact on the game. The most obvious call was the play where the Carmel kid gets slammed on his head. That being argued is a discredit and exemplifies a fan vs someone who understands where the game of football is today. I will say again that Snider should be proud of their seasons and that they will most likely get another shot at Carmel next season. 

**On a side note question.. to the official on the site. If a player in High School has more than 1 personal foul, does that player get disqualified? For example, if the player flagged for slamming the kid on his head had another personal foul would he be ejected in high school?

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25 minutes ago, INDHOF03 said:

Before this year, I have seen Carmel come into Ft. Wayne from 2013 - 2016 and just blow the doors off of the 6A teams from this area. I have had family on the previous 4 teams of recent and I believe many on this board are missing  the critical points of this game...Snider went toe-toe with one of the best programs in the state and should be proud of a great season. It was fun to see for sure.  It doesn't matter if everyone is saying this Carmel team is down or that they are the 3rd-4th best team in the MIC. The digest is great for sound-offs and hate mail type dialogue but most "good" games come down to 1-3 plays. If you understand one thing about football you must understand that...The roughing the kicker play was one play for sure and maybe should not have been called... the late fumble was another big play. In my opinion... the punt/safety was the biggest. A big part of these close games are Special Teams and it cost Snider the game...Right there are the biggest 3 plays of the game...As for the penalties...even though Carmel committed more they were probably even in terms of impact on the game. The most obvious call was the play where the Carmel kid gets slammed on his head. That being argued is a discredit and exemplifies a fan vs someone who understands where the game of football is today. I will say again that Snider should be proud of their seasons and that they will most likely get another shot at Carmel next season. 

**On a side note question.. to the official on the site. If a player in High School has more than 1 personal foul, does that player get disqualified? For example, if the player flagged for slamming the kid on his head had another personal foul would he be ejected in high school?

2 Personal Fouls  Unsportsmanlike Fouls are an Automatic Ejection and you sit the next level (of any scheduled sport) the next calendar week. 

Edited by Yuccaguy
clarification

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18 minutes ago, INDHOF03 said:

 

**On a side note question.. to the official on the site. If a player in High School has more than 1 personal foul, does that player get disqualified? For example, if the player flagged for slamming the kid on his head had another personal foul would he be ejected in high school?

You're an official, but you don't know the answer to this? 

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7 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

2 Personal Fouls is an Automatic Ejection and you sit the next level (of any scheduled sport) the next calendar week. 

All personal fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct personal foul? So if a player gets two roughing the passers or two face masks of the 15 yard variety it’s an automatic ejection? That doesn’t seem right.

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Excuse me.  Sorry, long day.  I meant to say Unsportsmanlike Conduct fouls (2).  Not Personal Fouls.  

WOW, need to focus.  

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Just now, Yuccaguy said:

Excuse me.  Sorry, long day.  I meant to say Unsportsmanlike Conduct fouls (2).  Not Personal Fouls.  

WOW, need to focus.  

I figured that’s what you meant but was just making sure.

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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

All personal fouls or unsportsmanlike conduct personal foul? So if a player gets two roughing the passers or two face masks of the 15 yard variety it’s an automatic ejection? That doesn’t seem right.

That’s not correct. 2 unsportsmanlike conduct fouls is a disqualification. There’s no limit on personal fouls.

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

I figured that’s what you meant but was just making sure.

My goodness, thank you!   And I edited my earlier response....   DOH!  

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Boy, the adrenalin is still very high for this game. But the reality is Carmel won, bad referring or not. I hate this, that calls determine the out come of the game.  But sounds like from here, that is the consensus.

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45 minutes ago, INDHOF03 said:

Before this year, I have seen Carmel come into Ft. Wayne from 2013 - 2016 and just blow the doors off of the 6A teams from this area. I have had family on the previous 4 teams of recent and I believe many on this board are missing  the critical points of this game...Snider went toe-toe with one of the best programs in the state and should be proud of a great season. It was fun to see for sure.  It doesn't matter if everyone is saying this Carmel team is down or that they are the 3rd-4th best team in the MIC. The digest is great for sound-offs and hate mail type dialogue but most "good" games come down to 1-3 plays. If you understand one thing about football you must understand that...The roughing the kicker play was one play for sure and maybe should not have been called... the late fumble was another big play. In my opinion... the punt/safety was the biggest. A big part of these close games are Special Teams and it cost Snider the game...Right there are the biggest 3 plays of the game...As for the penalties...even though Carmel committed more they were probably even in terms of impact on the game. The most obvious call was the play where the Carmel kid gets slammed on his head. That being argued is a discredit and exemplifies a fan vs someone who understands where the game of football is today. I will say again that Snider should be proud of their seasons and that they will most likely get another shot at Carmel next season. 

**On a side note question.. to the official on the site. If a player in High School has more than 1 personal foul, does that player get disqualified? For example, if the player flagged for slamming the kid on his head had another personal foul would he be ejected in high school?

Very good post.

Regarding the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. If a kid's feet come off the ground, does that automatically qualify? I've watched several replays and it doesn't look to me like he INTENTIONALLY lifted him up and slammed him to the ground. It looked to me like he was just trying to pull him back. Isn't that what we do in football? Pull back and not push forward? As he was PULLING him back, his legs came off the ground, nothing intentional about it. Am I the only one on the forum who is sticking up for this kid? Maybe I'm off base, but that's my version of what happened.

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18 minutes ago, southend said:

Boy, the adrenalin is still very high for this game. But the reality is Carmel won, bad referring or not. I hate this, that calls determine the out come of the game.  But sounds like from here, that is the consensus.

Ok do any of you think Carmel will take the trophy in 6a this year?

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30 minutes ago, bobref said:

That’s not correct. 2 unsportsmanlike conduct fouls is a disqualification. There’s no limit on personal fouls.

That was a question I asked in reference to Yuca’s post that’s since been edited.

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10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Am I the only one on the forum who is sticking up for this kid?

Looks like it.

 

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Maybe I'm off base,

That's my opinion.

 

26 minutes ago, southend said:

I hate this, that calls determine the out come of the game.

They didn't. Discipline did.

 

6 minutes ago, southend said:

Ok do any of you think Carmel will take the trophy in 6a this year?

No

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8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Very good post.

Regarding the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. If a kid's feet come off the ground, does that automatically qualify? I've watched several replays and it doesn't look to me like he INTENTIONALLY lifted him up and slammed him to the ground. It looked to me like he was just trying to pull him back. Isn't that what we do in football? Pull back and not push forward? As he was PULLING him back, his legs came off the ground, nothing intentional about it. Am I the only one on the forum who is sticking up for this kid? Maybe I'm off base, but that's my version of what happened.

Just keep this in mind..  YOUR interpretation of what happened is not at all relevant when it comes to the officiating on the field.  It is the officials assigned and entrusted with the interpretation (and judgment) of the rules that matter...ONLY.  

Not trying to sound crass, but the tet a tet, that seems to "want" to happen really isn't needed.  

Almost 100% of the time when a flag is thrown, at least 50% of the fans will disagree.  It kinda goes with the territory.  

Remember, at this point of the season....  You are seeing what is judged to be (by schools and administrators) the best of the best when it comes to officials in this state.  

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