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Boilernation

Saturday Playoff Games

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I've noticed all Illinois playoff games this week will be played today with most being early to late afternoon kickoffs. I don't know what the overall attendance figures looked like last night, but I wonder if most of the games played last night and next week would draw a better gate on a sunny Saturday afternoon from fan bases and neutral observers not willing to freeze on a Friday night.

Im assuming Avon/Center Grove likely had the best attendance. CG fans definitely show up on the road. Concord barely had any fans for a home Regional game. It appeared like Carmel barely brought any fans to FT Wayne. How was the Snider home crowd? Did Zionsville fill their side? It was too hard to tell how many fans Kokomo had on the feed from the IHSAA. 

Does the IHSAA post gate receipts for all games?

Edited by Boilernation

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East home side was basically full, not packed but not totally open space either. I was honestly somewhat impressed by THN fans. There were about 100 (no students really other than kids of adults). Considering the distance, weather, and likely outcome I thought they had decent attendance. 

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I think live streaming of games has brought attendance at Playoff games way down. Why would anyone wanna go stand in 20 or below weather  ( I did but I'm crazy) when they could sit at home and watch the game on their computers or Smart TV's. I think saturday games would not draw much more of a crowd than Friday night games fo. 

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Home side

I'd say Laville had almost as many 

the game wasn't streamed either

Edited by CharlieTweeder

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2 hours ago, warren05 said:

I think live streaming of games has brought attendance at Playoff games way down. Why would anyone wanna go stand in 20 or below weather  ( I did but I'm crazy) when they could sit at home and watch the game on their computers or Smart TV's. I think saturday games would not draw much more of a crowd than Friday night games fo. 

Good point. Last night I was able to watch Snider/Carmel, Zionsville/Kokomo, and Lowell/New Prairie while throwing in a quick trip to Westfield for some BBQ. 

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As a big fan of HS football (have attended tourney games at Beech Grove, Franklin Central, Cathedral/Tech, Greenwood past 4 weeks), I'd love to be able to go to 2 or 3 Semistate games next weekend. Heck, 6 of the 12 games next Friday are within an hour of my house. And with the NCAA encroaching upon HS football with televised football games every Friday night & MANY basketball openers last night, fall Friday nights do not belong to HS football anymore.

I am aware that a few tourney games are played on Saturdays due to distance (example: Ev Memorial-Lawrenceburg today). So how can we convince the IHSAA to work with all of the member schools to institute a 2-year trial with a staggered schedule for Regional & Semistate football? It would be great for neutral fans & coaches/players of area teams. I sat near some Roncalli players on a bye week at Beech Grove & some Whiteland kids at Greenwood. Most importantly, it would make it a lot easier for visiting fans to make a long drive (sometimes with a time zone switch) for a Saturday game instead of a Friday night game. And since the IHSAA gets the gate receipts for Reg/SS/State, it could benefit their coffers too.

Wouldn't this be FANTASTIC next weekend? Avon at Ben Davis -- Fri 7pm. Columbus East at Cathedral -- Sat 2pm. Penn at Carmel -- Sat 7pm. I would absolutely go to all 3 of those games.

Here's my idea. Keep the Sectional as-is since extended travel is relatively rare. But at the Regional & Semistate levels, split games into 3 time slots: Fri night, Sat early afternoon, Sat night. They already do something like this for Semistate basketball games so why not football? After a team advances & knows their next opponent/game location, each team submits their time slots ranked 1-2-3 to the IHSAA by Sunday morning. At that point, the IHSAA football committee gets together to determine the following week's schedule based upon each team's time slot rankings, travel distance, days between games for each team, nearby tourney games & nearby college games. On Monday, the IHSAA announces the day/time of each game for the following weekend.

I think the positives would outweigh any potential negatives that could be viewed as an unfair advantage (1 extra day to rest & prepare for 1 team over the other, the opportunity to scout in person if you win on Friday & your next opponent plays on Saturday). Obviously, the football committee would need to get buy-in & approval to try this out & agreement from all member schools to accept the committee's scheduling decisions.

Edited by slice60
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20 hours ago, warren05 said:

I think live streaming of games has brought attendance at Playoff games way down. Why would anyone wanna go stand in 20 or below weather  ( I did but I'm crazy) when they could sit at home and watch the game on their computers or Smart TV's. I think saturday games would not draw much more of a crowd than Friday night games fo. 

I wish that the brackets which play the final games on Saturday (this year its 2A, 4A and 6A) would play the regionals and semistate on Saturday in the daylight....2 p.m.. 3 p.m.

It would be warmer..Much better for travel of fans...Much easier for working people.  Players and fans from teams in other brackets could attend.

Fans could watch 2 games a weekend if they wished to.

Preparation for the finals could still begin Saturday night.

 

There is a problem with finding officials who are not working College games Saturday.

But playing outdoors at night in mid-November is not in the best interest of all

 

 

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25 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I wish that the brackets which play the final games on Saturday (this year its 2A, 4A and 6A) would play the regionals and semistate on Saturday in the daylight....2 p.m.. 3 p.m.

It would be warmer..Much better for travel of fans...Much easier for working people.  Players and fans from teams in other brackets could attend.

Fans could watch 2 games a weekend if they wished to.

Preparation for the finals could still begin Saturday night.

 

There is a problem with finding officials who are not working College games Saturday.

But playing outdoors at night in mid-November is not in the best interest of all

 

 

I  doubt that there would be a problem with finding officials. At the regional round there are 4 games per class. With  6 classes that means 24 games. If you are only playing the three classes that play their state game on a Saturday on the Saturday of regional you are only going to have 12 games. 

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High school football should NEVER be played during the daytime.  Having 7:00 kickoffs with DST is already bad enough for half of the year.

What actually needs to be done is go to neutral site regionals and semi-states.  That way people aren't paying $8 a head to stand on a fence in 25 degree weather for 3 hours because they are at a facility that has no business hosting that kind of game.

Plus its truly patently unfair for some schools to have the chance to host a sectional, regional and semi-state game. Which happens seemingly every year.

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6 minutes ago, Dan Jones said:

High school football should NEVER be played during the daytime.  Having 7:00 kickoffs with DST is already bad enough for half of the year.

What actually needs to be done is go to neutral site regionals and semi-states.  That way people aren't paying $8 a head to stand on a fence in 25 degree weather for 3 hours because they are at a facility that has no business hosting that kind of game.

Plus its truly patently unfair for some schools to have the chance to host a sectional, regional and semi-state game. Which happens seemingly every year.

You realize that high school football was ALWAYS played during the daylight for most of its history.

What is good about a fan base traveling in the dark on a school and work day to a site 100 miles away

   Why would you not want to play Saturday afternoon...in situations like Lowell-Dwenger    or Carmel-Penn?

Edited by oldunclemark
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High school football, since it became relevant in Indiana, is played at night.  And always should be.

The people who want to go to Carmel/Penn are going to go whether they play at 8:00 on Friday night or 3:00 on Saturday afternoon.  And will go wherever the game is played (if its played at a good venue, which plays a HUGE role on whether I would go to a game or not).

And again, if you had neutral site playoff games for the regional and semi-state round, you are cutting the drive time down for traveling schools.  Penn doesn't have to travel from Mishawaka to Carmel, IN.  Evansville Memorial doesn't have to travel to Danville.  Southridge doesn't have to trek to the southeast side of Indianapolis to play Scecina.  With all the terrific facilities all over the state, USE them!  Evansville schools will still have to travel but they have to travel basically no matter where they play.  Plus its more FAIR for teams to not host games so that the best teams actually win these games.  Having long trips is an advantage for the home team.  Make it where both are traveling and its fair.  Go to a playoff game in Ohio and you'd understand why its done this way. 

Plus anyone playing on natural grass at this time of year?  Ridiculous.  Which is another reason why neutral site games should be enacted.  And should have been LONG ago.

Carmel versus Penn at Ball State.  Evansville Memorial versus Danville at Bloomington South HS.  Southridge versus Scecina at Columbus East.  I

And for the semi-state round, if your state championship game is on Friday, everyone in your class plays on Friday.  If its on Saturday, everyone plays on Saturday evening.  Make it FAIR for all teams, instead of one team getting an extra day (which happens now in some cases).

Edited by Dan Jones
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1 hour ago, SR1 said:

I  doubt that there would be a problem with finding officials. At the regional round there are 4 games per class. With  6 classes that means 24 games. If you are only playing the three classes that play their state game on a Saturday on the Saturday of regional you are only going to have 12 games. 

There is a problem with Saturday availability of refs. Some have already committed to college games. Some are simply not available Saturday.

There aren't that many officials anyway.

Just now, Dan Jones said:

High school football, since it became relevant in Indiana, is played at night.  And always should be.

The people who want to go to Carmel/Penn are going to go whether they play at 8:00 on Friday night or 3:00 on Saturday afternoon. 

And again, if you had neutral site playoff games for the regional and semi-state round, you are cutting the drive time down for traveling schools.  Penn doesn't have to travel from Mishawaka to Carmel, IN.  Evansville Memorial doesn't have to travel to Danville.  Southridge doesn't have to trek to the southeast side of Indianapolis to play Scecina.  With all the terrific facilities all over the state, USE them!  Evansville schools will still have to travel but they have to travel basically no matter where they play.  Plus its more FAIR for teams to not host games so that the best teams actually win these games.  Having long trips is an advantage for the home team.  Make it where both are traveling and its fair.  Go to a playoff game in Ohio and you'd understand why its done this way. 

Plus anyone playing on natural grass at this time of year?  Ridiculous.  Which is another reason why neutral site games should be enacted.  And should have been LONG ago.

The neutral site playoff game is never gong to happen.  Why would schools give up home games.?   Fair is a place where you judge pigs and ponies.

Many of us work all day Fridays and wont make a Friday night game 2 or 3 hours away...there ae more peole who want to go than can go on Friday nights.

 

And all football began playing in the afternoon.  Football has been played in Indiana since World War I. They thought it was relevant

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21 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Good point. Last night I was able to watch Snider/Carmel, Zionsville/Kokomo, and Lowell/New Prairie while throwing in a quick trip to Westfield for some BBQ. 

if it was the same bbq joint i ate at in shamrock city  you had some good grub

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1 hour ago, Dan Jones said:

High school football should NEVER be played during the daytime.

Why?

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2 hours ago, Dan Jones said:

High school football should NEVER be played during the daytime.  Having 7:00 kickoffs with DST is already bad enough for half of the year.

What actually needs to be done is go to neutral site regionals and semi-states.  That way people aren't paying $8 a head to stand on a fence in 25 degree weather for 3 hours because they are at a facility that has no business hosting that kind of game.

Plus its truly patently unfair for some schools to have the chance to host a sectional, regional and semi-state game. Which happens seemingly every year.

I couldn't disagree with this more.  Even having one of the best facilities in the state I dont mind going on the road and playing out in a cow pasture like we've had to before.  Any true fan that supports their team should feel the same.  Although the drive to East Central *%#!?*s from Evansville and when we had to go to Northview.  That field looked like they just took the cows off the field a couple hours before and the grass hadnt been cut for 6 months.  But to me with our support 95% of the time we have more fans travel than the home team has on their own field its a good feeling to go into someone else's place and show them what its like.  And as far as the times, Saturday afternoon games makes it much easier for more fans to make the trip.

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On 11/11/2017 at 10:24 AM, CharlieTweeder said:

Home side

I'd say Laville had almost as many 

the game wasn't streamed either

Interesting. 

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2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

There is a problem with Saturday availability of refs. Some have already committed to college games. Some are simply not available Saturday.

There aren't that many officials anyway.

I counted and there are only about 20 high school officials who work small college football on Saturdays. I estimate there are about 800 officials eligible to work the playoffs. 20 of them not being available wouldn't create a problem for the IHSAA. Yes, there is a shortage but that does not affect the last 4 rounds of the tournament where only 48 crews are needed. 7 of the 20 I mentioned are referees on their high school crews with 3 of them working this week and all eligible for next week. There are several from the remaining group eligible to work regional or semi-state. It would be challenging for them and affecting them more than the teams or IHSAA. Semi-state gets more tricky because it's the first round of the college playoffs. But those officials aren't available Friday or Saturday because they have to travel on Friday to be at the game site. There could be other officials who have non-football conflicts on Saturdays, but you would probably have to make yourself available either day if you are eligible for those rounds or be ready to find a replacement for your crew on those days. Bottom line. Officiating is not a reason to not do this.

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I don't know the exact numbers but you've got 150+ IHSAA games every Friday night during the season which means you have 150+ officiating crews. I don't see how you can't find 6 crews for a Semistate Saturday or 8-12 crews for a Regional Saturday. 

Like I pointed out before, the NCAA is encroaching on fall Friday nights with both D-1 football & basketball. So why not have some big-time HS tourney games on Saturday afternoons or evenings? We've had recent discussions about finding ways to bring more excitement & more fans to HS football-- staggering these late tourney games would be a great way to do it. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with daytime games. College & pros play most of their games during the day. I sincerely doubt that any of the state finalists in the 4 lower classes complaining about their kickoff times at Lucas Oil.

Neutral games is just plain silly. Are you actively trying to keep fans away from games? It's alot easier for diehard fans/parents/students to make 1 or 2 trips to away games during a tourney run but they would be less likely to hit the road each week if their team was the visitor in Sectionals 2 of 3 times & then had lengthy trips to neutral sites for Regional & SS & then Indy for State.

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5 hours ago, Dan Jones said:

The people who want to go to Carmel/Penn are going to go whether they play at 8:00 on Friday night or 3:00 on Saturday afternoon.  And will go wherever the game is played (if its played at a good venue, which plays a HUGE role on whether I would go to a game or not).

I want to go to the Penn/Carmel game but it's kinda impossible to be at 2 places at once. My original idea was 3 time slots but even switching to 2 (Fri night & Saturday night so you keep your beloved night football) would be a great improvement & allow more fan interaction.

7 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

I wish that the brackets which play the final games on Saturday (this year its 2A, 4A and 6A) would play the regionals and semistate on Saturday in the daylight....2 p.m.. 3 p.m.

It would be warmer..Much better for travel of fans...Much easier for working people.  Players and fans from teams in other brackets could attend.

Fans could watch 2 games a weekend if they wished to.

 Great idea -- simple. If your class plays at LOS on Friday, you play Regional/SS on Friday. If your class plays at LOS on Saturday, you play Saturdays. Only negative is that some teams with 2-3 hour drives would still have to play on Friday.

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5 hours ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

Interesting. 

I'm guessing the opponent had a lot to do with the home attendance. No offense to Laville, but the previous outcome, plus the cold, probably kept people away. 

That will change this Friday.

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Friday becomes even more problematic when you have time zone change involved. 7 pm Ft Wayne is only 6 pm in the region. It is a 2 1/2 hour drive .

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10 hours ago, jhswildcat79aks said:

if it was the same bbq joint i ate at in shamrock city  you had some good grub

Big Hoffa's?

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