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Frozen Tundra

Top 32 Teams

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We are in our fifth year of having six classes for football. I was thinking about this and wondered what 6A would look like if we threw out enrollments and went strictly by the top 32 teams. If we wanted to build the best 6A possible, which 32 teams would be in it? 

When thinking about this, it's important to not base this off of one year's results. You'd want 32 teams that could sustain a level of "eliteness" over time. I think it's also important to not base this off of a program's success (or lack thereof). While Lafayette Central Catholic has had tremendous success winning games and championships, I doubt that you'd put them in over Pike who struggles to get both due to the rigors of scheduling and sectional placement.

I would think a majority of the current 6A schools would still remain in 6A in this scenario. Therefore, it might be easier to list what non-6A schools would be in this "fantasy 6A" and then list the current 6A schools you would trade out for them.

Just curious to know what everyone thinks and how you all perceive other teams around the state.

Edited by Frozen Tundra

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I'd use CalPreps (since they incorporate out of state games) first and end of year Sagarin second over whatever period you choose.  My guess is about 40-60% (maybe more) of the 6A schools fall outside of the top 32, btw, once looked at. 

That said (NOT saying you are by any means), lest anyone wants to argue this is how we need to reorganize HS football it starts smelling like this weird Muda international soccer stuff (I didn't use the other "S" word that came immediately to mind) playoff system that I long since tired of arguing about. 

Its an interesting exercise, though, and I'm curious as well.

Edited by Lysander

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36 minutes ago, whiteshoes said:

I would never use CalPreps for anything.     Picking the top 32 is too subjective.

Why would you not use Calpreps?

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First and foremost, Snider should remain in 6a no matter what happens after next year.

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4 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Why would you not use Calpreps?

Never trusted computer programs that rank teams and they have a very serious California bias.   I deal with it more on a national basis than a state basis, but have learned not to rely on their data.

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34 minutes ago, whiteshoes said:

Never trusted computer programs that rank teams and they have a very serious California bias.   I deal with it more on a national basis than a state basis, but have learned not to rely on their data.

I think Calpreps is an excellent website to use looking at their Dynasty ratings for something like what the original OP wanted. It shows the win loss and strength of schedule over a time period. We have Sagarin, but sagrin doesn't count any out of state opponents.

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On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:31 AM, FastpacedO said:

I think Calpreps is an excellent website to use looking at their Dynasty ratings for something like what the original OP wanted. It shows the win loss and strength of schedule over a time period. We have Sagarin, but sagrin doesn't count any out of state opponents.

Look at my dynasty rankings on prepgridiron.com, not as much love for Cal teams.

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3 hours ago, whiteshoes said:

Look at my dynasty rankings on prepgridiron.com, not as much love for Cal teams.

I would love to look at your dynasty ranking. I went on prepgridiron but I don't see a dynasty rating.

BTW on Calpreps national dynasty rating from 2003-Present I don't see a heavy Cal presence.

In the Top 10 there is (1) California team, (4) Texas teams, (1) Florida team, (2) Ohio teams, (1) New Jersey team, and (1) Indiana team.

In the Top 25 there is (6) Texas teams, (5) Ohio teams, (4) California teams, (2) Florida teams, (2) Oklahoma teams, (2) New Jersey teams, (1) Indiana team, (1) Utah team, (1) Kentucky team, and (1) Alabama team.

 

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Cathedral gets moved back up, I would even move LaPorte up as well.  If Mishawaka was still in 5A I would say them, but since they went down I would leave them there.  But some of the other private schools in the Indy area that are like 3 or 4A could probably compete at the 6A level.  

 

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I'm perplexed by the above statement.  There are typically no 6A teams who can compete with the other MIC 6A teams in the Indy area, let alone 3A and 4A teams.  By my quick count, Cathedral is 7-13 against the MIC since 2010.  Of the 7 victories, only one came against a team finishing the season with a winning record (2016 LC was 6-5).

That's not designed as a shot at Cathedral, in any way.  My point is, Cathedral was crowned the best team in 4A or 5A 5 times during those seasons.  So no, there are no Indy area 3A or 4A teams who could compete for a title in 6A.

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4 hours ago, The TW said:

I'm perplexed by the above statement.  There are typically no 6A teams who can compete with the other MIC 6A teams in the Indy area, let alone 3A and 4A teams.  By my quick count, Cathedral is 7-13 against the MIC since 2010.  Of the 7 victories, only one came against a team finishing the season with a winning record (2016 LC was 6-5).

That's not designed as a shot at Cathedral, in any way.  My point is, Cathedral was crowned the best team in 4A or 5A 5 times during those seasons.  So no, there are no Indy area 3A or 4A teams who could compete for a title in 6A.

The question was the top 32 teams not the teams most likely to beat the MIC schools.  You don't count Cathedral as one of the best 32 teams in the state?

 

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Teams I'd drop from 6A (14):

Crown Point, Lake Central, Merrillville, Portage, Chesterton, Warsaw, Fort Wayne Northrop, Lafayette Jeff, Noblesville, North Central, Lawrence North, Perry Meridian, Franklin Central, and Jeffersonville

Teams I'd add to 6A:

Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, Decatur Central, Columbus East, Fort Wayne Dwenger, Whiteland, Bloomington South, Zionsville, New Palestine, East Central, Evansville Reitz, Lowell, and Mishawaka.

 

What do you guys think? I'd like your perspectives because I doubt I'm seeing it from all angles.

Edited by Frozen Tundra
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2 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Teams I'd drop from 6A (14):

Crown Point, Lake Central, Merrillville, Portage, Chesterton, Warsaw, Fort Wayne Northrop, Lafayette Jeff, Noblesville, North Central, Lawrence North, Perry Meridian, Franklin Central, and Jeffersonville

Teams I'd add to 6A:

Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, Decatur Central, Columbus East, Fort Wayne Dwenger, Whiteland, Bloomington South, Zionsville, New Palestine, East Central, Evansville Reitz, Lowell, and Mishawaka.

 

What do you guys think? I'd like your perspectives because I doubt I'm seeing it from all angles.

Reitz? Just no. They're fine in 4A, they wouldn't be able to do squat in 6A, plus we don't have enough big schools down here. They really didn't make that leap till they dropped down from 5A. So the teams you'd add for a sectional are where? Pretty far. Plus those dominant days have been some time ago now.....

Plus I'd argue some of those teams you want to drop could give Reitz a game if not beat them. 

Edited by Big8Football

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1 hour ago, Big8Football said:

Reitz? Just no. They're fine in 4A, they wouldn't be able to do squat in 6A, plus we don't have enough big schools down here. They really didn't make that leap till they dropped down from 5A. So the teams you'd add for a sectional are where? Pretty far. Plus those dominant days have been some time ago now.....

Plus I'd argue some of those teams you want to drop could give Reitz a game if not beat them. 

This is hypothetical. We're not talking about drawing up sectionals. 

Also, while I don't think Reitz could compete this year, I think there are most years where they could be in the upper 20s at best. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit based off of seeing them beat Cathedral twice in the late 00s though. 

Edited by Frozen Tundra
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5 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

This is hypothetical. We're not talking about drawing up sectionals. 

Also, while I don't think Reitz could compete this year, I think there are most years where they could be in the upper 20s at best. Maybe I'm giving them too much credit based off of seeing them beat Cathedral twice in the late 00s though. 

You are.

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15 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Teams I'd drop from 6A (14):

Crown Point, Lake Central, Merrillville, Portage, Chesterton, Warsaw, Fort Wayne Northrop, Lafayette Jeff, Noblesville, North Central, Lawrence North, Perry Meridian, Franklin Central, and Jeffersonville

Teams I'd add to 6A:

Cathedral, Roncalli, Chatard, Decatur Central, Columbus East, Fort Wayne Dwenger, Whiteland, Bloomington South, Zionsville, New Palestine, East Central, Evansville Reitz, Lowell, and Mishawaka.

 

What do you guys think? I'd like your perspectives because I doubt I'm seeing it from all angles.

switch LaPorte and Mishawaka and I would agree with that.

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The teams are fine where they are. It is based on enrollment and tournament success. They will be moved up if they get the certain amount of points to move up a class.

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Can a 4A team be bumped to 6A? Seems a bit unfair since most 4A teams are small enough they have to rely on many 2 way players where the bigger schools do not.  Cant image many if any 4A schools being competitive at that level. 

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2 hours ago, 33 ISO said:

Can a 4A team be bumped to 6A? Seems a bit unfair since most 4A teams are small enough they have to rely on many 2 way players where the bigger schools do not.  Cant image many if any 4A schools being competitive at that level. 

Dwenger competes against Snider who was one of top 6A teams this year.  However, I don't think Dwenger, or any 4A, would be competitive annually in 6A outside.

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2 hours ago, 33 ISO said:

Can a 4A team be bumped to 6A? Seems a bit unfair since most 4A teams are small enough they have to rely on many 2 way players where the bigger schools do not.  Cant image many if any 4A schools being competitive at that level. 

Please go watch Cathedral.

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11 hours ago, Cougs73 said:

The teams are fine where they are. It is based on enrollment and tournament success. They will be moved up if they get the certain amount of points to move up a class.

Again, I know this. I'm just saying to pick the 32 best teams. I'm not basing it off of one or two years. I'm basing it on teams that can keep it up over an amount of time that you would consider them top 32 in the long run. Teams have outlier years when they're really good or really bad. This is about teams that can maintain strength for the foreseeable future (maybe a 10 year span?). Hypothetically, who would those 32 teams be? That's the point of this. I know the rules. I'm not mad at the rules. I'm not advocating change. This is just a question I started because I wanted to know the differing opinions on who the 32 best teams are. I have my own perspective but I like opening up to other perspectives in case other folks are seeing things I'm not seeing.

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18 hours ago, 33 ISO said:

Can a 4A team be bumped to 6A? Seems a bit unfair since most 4A teams are small enough they have to rely on many 2 way players where the bigger schools do not.  Cant image many if any 4A schools being competitive at that level. 

What if I told you there once was a 4A team who won back to back 6A Sectional Championships against all MIC schools? They were then deemed unable to compete at that level per the rules and moved back down to 5A. 

 

A strange tale it would be. 

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1 hour ago, The TW said:

What if I told you there once was a 4A team who won back to back 6A Sectional Championships against all MIC schools? They were then deemed unable to compete at that level per the rules and moved back down to 5A. 

 

A strange tale it would be. 

There is more to that tale to after losing in 5A Semi-State by a non MIC school.

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I'm not saying that some 4A powerhouse teams couldn't put on a good showing and even win against 6A teams but getting to and winning state is a long hard grind that would no doubt favor the much larger schools. 

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