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Black_Gold2007

Penn v Ben Davis 6A Title Game

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Just now, DrivenT said:

From a pure talent standpoint, there were probably 8 or 10 6A teams that were better on paper than Penn this season.

I doubt too many would argue that point.  

Just the nature of the draw, which is why I would like to see a new format such as the East - West scenario.

 

 

 

Uh, in case you haven't heard, Ben Davis is now an Eastside school.....ask the IHSAA committee that came up with the Class 6A sectional maps....

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7 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

From a pure talent standpoint, there were probably 8 or 10 6A teams that were better on paper than Penn this season.

I doubt too many would argue that point.  

Just the nature of the draw, which is why I would like to see a new format such as the East - West scenario.

Paper doesn't mean anything , thats why we play the games . Would you agree that Penn was Better than Carmel ? Please list your 8-10 6A teams that were better than Carmel.

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Lysander said:

  I credit Coach K for not shooting for the "record" - which he could likely have broken.   

I can't imagine any coach concerning themselves with "the record." In a championship game, a coaches only goal should be to win and win with class.

10 hours ago, Indyyjr said:

Someone had a small sign in the BD crowd at the end wanting to take on 'Bama

I don't know about Division III, but they'd get smoked by any NAIA team.

2 hours ago, DrivenT said:

 

Penn doesn't have the athletes to compete with a generational team like this Ben Davis squad, or the mid 2000s Warren Central teams.  Penn has size, numbers, grit and excellent coaching.  They lack athletic talent and overall team speed.  Its just who they are.  Or more precisely, who they aren't.  

 

 

Especially on turf. Turf favors the faster team. If we want to truly level the playing field, let's alternate turf and grass fields every year for the state championship.

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 7:21 PM, DrivenT said:

For the sake of competitive balance, maybe its time to do an east-west tournament split in 6A.  North can't compete with the south

I don't mind an east vs west tournament. Like I said in an earlier post, Snider will have to defeat a team twice their size regardless of how the tournament is split.

Snider was 3-4 touchdowns better than Carmel this year. They just self destructed.

Both Snider and Penn were capable of winning 6a in 2015. In fact, IMO, Snider would have taken out Center Grove. No disrespect to CG, just one man's opinion.

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10 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

From a pure talent standpoint, there were probably 8 or 10 6A teams that were better on paper than Penn this season.

I doubt too many would argue that point.  

Just the nature of the draw, which is why I would like to see a new format such as the East - West scenario.

 

 

 

Has to be one of the most retarded post I've read on this forum . I guess we play the games on paper now . Alabama was better than Auburn on paper too . 

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4 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH85 said:

Has to be one of the most retarded post I've read on this forum . I guess we play the games on paper now . Alabama was better than Auburn on paper too . 

Bottom line , aside from possibly Warren , This years Ben Davis team beats any 6A team in the state by at least 50 inside Lucas Oil Stadium . 

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I would have rather seen the following teams play Ben Davis in the final in place of one dimensional Penn :

Snider

Homestead

Center Grove

Lawrence Central

Columbus North

Warren Central

Pike

Avon

Brownsburg

Laporte (5A/6A)  

Columbus East

Michigan City

Cathedral

Decatur Central

New Pal

 

Tired of seeing Carmel so they did not make the list.

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18 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I would have rather seen the following teams play Ben Davis in the final in place of one dimensional Penn :

Snider

Homestead

Center Grove

Lawrence Central

Columbus North

Warren Central

Pike

Avon

Brownsburg

Laporte (5A/6A)  

Columbus East

Michigan City

Cathedral

Decatur Central

New Pal

 

Tired of seeing Carmel so they did not make the list.

You're reaching with A LOT of those schools. For starters, Michigan City was already smoked by a Homewood-Flossmoor team that is very similar to Ben Davis in terms of size and speed.

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6 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

You're reaching with A LOT of those schools. For starters, Michigan City was already smoked by a Homewood-Flossmoor team that is very similar to Ben Davis in terms of size and speed.

I think both Michigan City and Laporte would give Penn a tough time.  MC has superior athletic talent, as they did against everyone they played in the DAC.  And Laporte with their ball control offense would have the opportunity to keep the explosive BD offense off the field for long stretches of play.

Both Columbus schools are very physical.  East vs BD would have been fun to watch.

LC would have loved to have a rematch against the Giants.  I like Bill Peebles game planning and game prep as good as any coach in the state.

Snider always rises to the occasion.  They never get blown off the field.  

Cathedral would have shown up better than Penn did.  

11 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

You're reaching with A LOT of those schools. For starters, Michigan City was already smoked by a Homewood-Flossmoor team that is very similar to Ben Davis in terms of size and speed.

That was week 2.  Phil Mason is a helluva coach and had his team playing top level football at the end of the year.  

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10 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I think both Michigan City and Laporte would give Penn a tough time.  MC has superior athletic talent, as they did against everyone they played in the DAC.  And Laporte with their ball control offense would have the opportunity to keep the explosive BD offense off the field for long stretches of play.

Both Columbus schools are very physical.  East vs BD would have been fun to watch.

LC would have loved to have a rematch against the Giants.  I like Bill Peebles game planning and game prep as good as any coach in the state.

Snider always rises to the occasion.  They never get blown off the field.  

Cathedral would have shown up better than Penn did.  

That was week 2.  Phil Mason is a helluva coach and had his team playing top level football at the end of the year.  

And that was week 1 for Homewood-Flossmoor so what’s your point.   MC, Snyder, or Lp couldn’t come close to the athletes or depth that bd had. Watching the bd defense, I was stunned at the speed that the dL had and the size and movement that the ol had.  This year they were just that much better than anyone else.   It’s not a slant on any other team whatsoever, it’s just a statement on how great a team on all aspects of the game.  Their shear size and speed would have worn down a lot of the smaller class schools you have listed by halftime.  

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55 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I would have rather seen the following teams play Ben Davis in the final in place of one dimensional Penn :

Snider

Homestead

Center Grove

Lawrence Central

Columbus North

Warren Central

Pike

Avon

Brownsburg

Laporte (5A/6A)  

Columbus East

Michigan City

Cathedral

Decatur Central

New Pal

 

Tired of seeing Carmel so they did not make the list.

Not sure your reasoning for preferring these teams. Maybe competitiveness in some cases; contrast in others? Regardless, most of these teams would look worse than Penn did vs the Giants. Most much worse.

I'm not going to look up the data on every team, but did for Laporte (sorry Slicer fans) just as an example. 

Laporte gave up 96 in two games to Michigan City (including 58 one game). Three other games they allowed 33, 34 (to a 4A team), and 37.  Laporte allowed over 26ppg on the season and 36.6ppg in their last 5. What makes you think the ball control offense you speak of that didn't slow these teams down would work vs BD?  

 

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1 hour ago, DrivenT said:

.

LC would have loved to have a rematch against the Giants.  I like Bill Peebles game planning and game prep as good as any coach in the state.

 

Ridiculous, LC got two bites at Ben Davis, and lost twice....move on

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On 11/24/2017 at 7:21 AM, southend said:

It help Carmel slide past a very good Snider team in the 4th quarter. That in most posters opinion, they weren't the better team. In Cathedrals situation It helped them slide by a determined Bloomington South team, in the 4th quarter. So yes my point is in situations where teams are close in manpower it is a definite advantage to be able to play better competition during the year.

Guys an *Deleted*. 

And even Warren got blown off the field in the first meeting. 

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Valpo  beat both City and LaPorte, Penn beat Valpo. Carmel would beat 99% of the teams you listed, Penn Smoked Carmel. Driven T’s reasoning is *Deleted*ic. 

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Penn starts a home/home series with the Slicers next year, I think it will be good for both schools, but it's pretty asinine to say they'd have given BD a better game than Penn

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Driven T says Penn is one dimensional . This is what BD gave up to other teams this year . So if Penn is one dimensional , so are most of the teams BD played this year.

CG - 7 points

Warren - 16 points ( First Meeting)

LN - 8 points

Carmel - 10 points

LC - 7 points

NC - 14 points

Fishers - 7 points

Penn - 14 points

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My biggest question is when BD wins another, where do they put it on the north fieldhouse - it's full. :)

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2 hours ago, GOLDRUSH85 said:

Valpo  beat both City and LaPorte, Penn beat Valpo. Carmel would beat 99% of the teams you listed, Penn Smoked Carmel. Driven T’s reasoning is *Deleted*ic. 

I believe Valpo also beat Penn.

I think Laporte and MC are better teams than Valpo, despite both losing during the regular season to the Vikes.  Both have better coaching staffs, which becomes more relevant in the post season.  

Penn should probably try to restart a series with one of the big Indy schools.  That seemed to really be a boost to their program.  

 

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58 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH85 said:

Driven T says Penn is one dimensional . This is what BD gave up to other teams this year . So if Penn is one dimensional , so are most of the teams BD played this year.

CG - 7 points

Warren - 16 points ( First Meeting)

LN - 8 points

Carmel - 10 points

LC - 7 points

NC - 14 points

Fishers - 7 points

Penn - 14 points

Tech - 7 points {Final 49-7}

Avon - 20 points {Final 52-20}

Pike - 34 points {Final 69-34}

CG - 7 points {Final 40-7}

WC - 16 points {Final 45-16}

LN - 8 points {Final 41-8}

Carmel - 10 points {Final 28-10}

LC - 7 points {Final 42-7}

NC - 14 points {Final 58-14}

LC - 20 points (Sectional) {Final 33-20}

WC - 29 points (Sectional Championship) {Final 36-29}

Fishers - 7 points (Regional) {Final 50-7}

Avon - 20 points (Semi-State) {Final 57-20}

Penn - 14 points (State) {Final 63-14}

Teams that scored more than 14 points on Ben Davis. Pike was able to score the most points 34. Lawrence Central and Warren Central in Sectionals were able to give Ben Davis the best game this year 33-20 and 36-29.

 

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15 hours ago, GOLDRUSH85 said:

Bottom line , aside from possibly Warren , This years Ben Davis team beats any 6A team in the state by at least 50 inside Lucas Oil Stadium . 

Not true...teams faced them on field turf all year long....and also at times when weather had zero influence.

 

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8 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

Not true...teams faced them on field turf all year long....and also at times when weather had zero influence.

 

Weather always has influence. Weather it is extreme heat in August , extreme cold in November , Wind , Rain etc . 

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14 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH85 said:

Weather always has influence. Weather it is extreme heat in August , extreme cold in November , Wind , Rain etc . 

Played a lot of comfortable games this year on turf.  But when weather does come into play, it impacts both teams.

BD was fantastic this season which no one will debate.  But I think you are rationalizing this weeks score a little when you say anyone would lose by 50 or more in Lucas.

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3 hours ago, DrivenT said:

I believe Valpo also beat Penn.

I think Laporte and MC are better teams than Valpo, despite both losing during the regular season to the Vikes.  Both have better coaching staffs, which becomes more relevant in the post season.  

Penn should probably try to restart a series with one of the big Indy schools.  That seemed to really be a boost to their program.  

 

This is correct, but they won when it didn't "matter".

Edited by Coach Ellenwood
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Given all the disfunction at Valpo before the Penn game, losing only 13-0 was a bit of a surprise.  

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25 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

Given all the disfunction at Valpo before the Penn game, losing only 13-0 was a bit of a surprise.  

Maybe more of a testament to Valpo for "rallying the troops" instead of a "knock" on Penn.

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18 hours ago, DrivenT said:

Given all the disfunction at Valpo before the Penn game, losing only 13-0 was a bit of a surprise.  

I am not a transitive property guy, but Valpo beat Penn in regular season when it doesnt "matter".  Crown Point beat Valpo in the regular season when it doesnt "matter" (besides for conference championship implications....if you care about that).  Valpo lost to Penn in sectionals.  CP lost to Penn in regionals.  Penn goes to state.

What I take away from this is just how far behind OVERALL fb wise nwi is to Indy in 6A (only speaking this class here).

Not a knock on players, coaches, admins, schools, communities, work ethic, time, etc.  Just an observation after watching BD in the title game. It is what it is and I'm sure everyone will continue to work as hard as they possibly can to get better. Best wishes all. 

Edited by Coach Ellenwood

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