• Announcements

    • Coach Nowlin

      HEAD COACH OPENING 2018   10/31/2017

      CONFIRMED HEAD COACH CHANGES IN 2018 Lafayette Central Catholic;  Don Collier  Kankakee Valley:  Zack Prairie  Valparaiso:  Dave Coyle  Evansville North:  Brett Szabo  Hamilton Southeastern:  Scott May Peru:  Bob Prescott  North Daviees:  Scott Helms  Evansville Central:  Andy Owens  River Forest: Austen Robison  Shelbyville:  Pat Parks  Rushville:  Scott McMurray  Cathedral: Rick Strieff:  Bill Peebles Hired from Lawrence Central  South Spencer:  Tom Packer  Bishop Dwenger:  Chris Svarczkopf Maconaquah: Mark Hartman  Anderson High School:  Robert Brown  Highland:  Trent Grinder  Southern Wells:  Steve Yencer  Warsaw:  Phil Jenson Lawrence Central:  Bill Peebles  Eastern Hancock:  Jim O'hara  Tri-Central:  George Gilbert  Franklin County:  Kirk Kennedy  Hobart:  Ryan Turley Anderson Prep Academy Randy Albano  Clarksville:  Joby Turner
Coach_G

Seeding pretty much not happening

Recommended Posts

Check out this article from Evansville Courier & Press:

High school football coaches to present seeding, mercy rule proposal

http://indy.st/2iSPydR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is only for a 1 year TRIAL.  That is if IHSAA says yes. 

Fingers crossed 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I have heard mostly around these parts is the anger that ensues when perceived top 2 teams draw each other 1st round.   Taking Sagarin's top 2 teams and putting them opposite of each other then takes that away, which was the most of the argument around here last 15 years I have been around.  

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the title of this thread is less than accurate....I believe (fingers crossed)...that we will get a trial since the Mercy rule is baked in.

 

 

Edited by Titan32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's a good fix, but now we will just hear how #3 has to play #1 in really competitive sectionals. 

There will always be a squeaky wheel.  Which ones will get the grease? :17_v:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would warn

1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

I think the title of this thread is less than accurate....I believe (fingers crossed)...that we will get a trial since the Mercy rule is baked in.

 

 

I would be wary of putting forward a proposal that includes seeding and a mercy rule.  You are in jeopardy of having the Ex Committee come back approving the Mercy Rule but voting down the seeding aspect.  

Cox has been very clearly on the record showing his support of a mercy rule, and also just as clearly against seeding.  Tread carefully.  

Edited by Coach_G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it is what it is.    

Coaches polled at 78% in favor.   

Again, IFCA, we are wanting to propose this as a 1 year TRIAL, just hoping it can get on the books and go from there, see the data that comes from it and see if it can be sustained, tweaked, or thrown completely out.   

But as Coach G knows well, the last big movement from IFCA that he had helped with was the Success Factor, IHSAA chopped that proposal up and made it their own, mainly 4 years to 2 years 10 points to 6.  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

What I have heard mostly around these parts is the anger that ensues when perceived top 2 teams draw each other 1st round.   Taking Sagarin's top 2 teams and putting them opposite of each other then takes that away, which was the most of the argument around here last 15 years I have been around.  

While I have gripes about the top 2 teams meeting early, my biggest complaint has been that we in the south typically see the same teams time and again in the tournament. Example: Evansville Central, Reitz, Bosse, and Harrison all play in the SIAC, and all 4 are in sectional 24. Evansville North (also a conference member) is on the cusp of dropping to 4A, and Evansville Memorial (another conference member) could be bumped up to 4A putting 6 teams from the SIAC in sectional 24 (since I know the IHSAA won’t put North or Memorial in sectional 22 or 23). 

 

Just in SIAC teams, you would (most likely) have to play two teams that you have already played to win the sectional. While us down in the Evansville area and in eastern Indiana have to play the same teams over and over, we watch as Indianapolis high schools get split amongst several sectionals. Yes, more schools, but there is also more shifting in sectionals every two years. 

 

While it might be an unpopular choice, I wish they would seed the field 1-32 (north and south). I really don’t see what the big deal of playing some games on Saturday. At least teams would get to see teams that they don’t normally see. 

Edited by Transplantedpanther
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

it is what it is.    

Coaches polled at 78% in favor.   

Again, IFCA, we are wanting to propose this as a 1 year TRIAL, just hoping it can get on the books and go from there, see the data that comes from it and see if it can be sustained, tweaked, or thrown completely out.   

But as Coach G knows well, the last big movement from IFCA that he had helped with was the Success Factor, IHSAA chopped that proposal up and made it their own, mainly 4 years to 2 years 10 points to 6.  

If the proposal were accepted and the IHSAA went through with it, would the trial be next season or would it be in the future?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, CGFan2017 said:

If the proposal were accepted and the IHSAA went through with it, would the trial be next season or would it be in the future?

Just a guess, but wouldn’t it make sense to delay implementation for a couple of years to give teams the opportunity to adjust their schedules, if desired?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, bobref said:

Just a guess, but wouldn’t it make sense to delay implementation for a couple of years to give teams the opportunity to adjust their schedules, if desired?

Makes sense. I think they should seed top 4 in 6A in 5A then do random for the bottom 4. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, bobref said:

Just a guess, but wouldn’t it make sense to delay implementation for a couple of years to give teams the opportunity to adjust their schedules, if desired?

Why would they need to adjust their schedules for a mercy rule and/or seeding in the post-season?

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Why would they need to adjust their schedules for a mercy rule and/or seeding in the post-season?

Well, if seeding is determined by something like Sagarin, perhaps you’d want to beef up your schedule. Conversely, say you’re a 5A school, but have a couple of 3A schools in your conference that drag your SOS down for purpose of seeding. You might start looking around for a change of scenery.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, bobref said:

Well, if seeding is determined by something like Sagarin, perhaps you’d want to beef up your schedule. Conversely, say you’re a 5A school, but have a couple of 3A schools in your conference that drag your SOS down for purpose of seeding. You might start looking around for a change of scenery.

Not to mention if using Sagarin rankings will be flawed because it will not count any out of state competition that teams play. Teams that have played out of state competition are:

Bowman Academy, Carmel, Dugger (Union), East Central, East Chicago Central, Ev Central, Ev Mater Dei, Ev Memorial, Ev North, Ev Reitz, Floyd Central, Franklin County, Gary Roosevelt, Gary West, Gibson Southern, Indiana Deaf, Cathedral, Chatard, Michigan City, Penn, Warren Central, West Lafayette.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rensselaer Central as well.  

West Lafayette will not be on that list next year either.  

Sagarin was hit on accuracy at 93% from studies done, it is best choice provided thus far to be as objective as possible in this conversation.   That is if IHSAA even says yes to the 1 year trial proposal.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt that the IHSAA will agree to the 1-year seeding proposal. Too many potential negatives:

- Sagarin (or whatever/whoever is used to select the top 2) make some questionable selections

- Teams that feel they should be seeded get drawn against the top-seed right away

- All of the stronger teams get drawn into one half of a bracket so critics demand more teams get seeded in the future

- If they go to 8-team or 16-team groups on 5A & 6A, some teams are forced to make several long trips while others always play at home or close to home

Whatever you put in place will never satisfy everyone. My biggest argument against seeding the football tournament is that if you seed football then you should seed every team sport. And that may be difficult to do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see how they'll be able to use Sagarin when it doesn't take into account out of state teams. The solution is simple as letting coaches seed the tournaments at their Sectional Meetings, who knows the teams better than them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, El Tigre said:

I don't see how they'll be able to use Sagarin when it doesn't take into account out of state teams. The solution is simple as letting coaches seed the tournaments at their Sectional Meetings, who knows the teams better than them?

I believe that the coaches in each Sectional work together on seeding wrestlers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, El Tigre said:

I don't see how they'll be able to use Sagarin when it doesn't take into account out of state teams. The solution is simple as letting coaches seed the tournaments at their Sectional Meetings, who knows the teams better than them?

Many folks do not do an actual on site sectional meeting, some do, some do not.   Handled electronically 

Wrestling you have close to 30+ matches to gleam over.   It would be very hard to leave personal biases out of the meeting room for football seeding to take place in that manor.  

Bottom line:  Proposal is not getting changed in their is no guarantee that it passes for the 1 year trial run.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeding could be handled by a regional committee that would seed all classes.  Divide the state into 4 (or 8) regions.  Coaches from 1A-6A are selected and the committee seeds each sectional.  Using Sagarin exclusively would be awful.

Just from this year in Sectional 9 the top 2 (LaPorte and Michigan City) and bottom 2 (Munster and South Bend Adams) were clear.  If you were seeding this sectional by only Sagarin ratings then Michigan City would have been the 1 and LaPorte the 2.  However, LaPorte beat Michigan City head to head (albeit in a last second win).  Should LaPorte have been the 1 seed based on the head to head victory rather than a couple point difference in Sagarin ratings?  Plus, one of Michigan City's losses wasn't even factored into Sagarin since it was to Homewood Flossmoor.

Seeding sectionals has to happen.  There are so many complaints about needing the regular season to mean something.  Let's reward the teams that performed in the regular season with home games and the best opportunity to advance.

Edited by slicer28
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, slice60 said:

Whatever you put in place will never satisfy everyone. My biggest argument against seeding the football tournament is that if you seed football then you should seed every team sport. And that may be difficult to do. 

This thought drives me nuts. Why does basketball have to be like football? That argument holds no water. Wrestling already has seeding, so by your logic, so should every other sport already. Each individual sport needs to do what is best for it. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.