• Announcements

    • Coach Nowlin

      HEAD COACH OPENING 2018   10/29/2017

      CONFIRMED HEAD COACH CHANGES IN 2018 Lafayette Central Catholic;  Don Collier  Kankakee Valley:  Zack Prairie  Valparaiso:  Dave Coyle Steven Mueller Hired Evansville North:  Brett Szabo  Hamilton Southeastern:  Scott May  Adam Morris Hired  Peru:  Bob Prescott Romaine Saint-Louis Hired North Daviees:  Scott Helms  Evansville Central:  Andy Owens  River Forest: Austen Robison  Shelbyville:  Pat Parks Mike Clevenger Hired from Clinton Prairie Rushville:  Scott McMurray  Cathedral: Rick Strieff:  Bill Peebles Hired from Lawrence Central  South Spencer:  Tom Packer  Bishop Dwenger:  Chris Svarczkopf Maconaquah: Mark Hartman  Anderson High School:  Robert Brown  Highland:  Trent Grinder  Southern Wells:  Steve Yencer  Warsaw:  Phil Jenson Lawrence Central:  Bill Peebles  Eastern Hancock:  Jim O'hara  Tri-Central:  George Gilbert  Shane Arnold Promoted Franklin County:  Kirk Kennedy  Hobart:  Ryan Turley  Craig Osika Promoted Anderson Prep Academy Randy Albano  Clarksville:  Joby Turner New Haven  Jim Rowland S.B. Clay:  Will Porter Mt. Vernon (Fortville) Neil Kazmierczak  Central Noble  Greg Moe  Trevor Tipton Promoted  Clinton Prairie:  Mike Clevenger Ben Davis:  Mike Kirschner  Parke Heritage :  ????    Brian Moore Hired
Sign in to follow this  
DrivenT

Bobby Cox Rejoices - Success Factor in Full Bloom

Recommended Posts

In Bobby Cox' world, it all comes down to percentages.  Using that criteria, the Success Factor is a HUGE win for he and his cronies.

Back in the 5 class days, which is when the Success Factor was designed and implemented, PPs were routinely winning 2 (40%), 3 (60%) and sometimes even 4 (80%) of the available state championship trophys in any given year.

In 2017, the PPs will win 1 of 6 titles (17%)

This is the only number that matters to Cox.  He will have achieved his objective of reducing the PP percentage of state titles while avoiding any possible PP initiated lawsuits and implementing a system that on the surface appears to be fair and equitable to all schools involved.

Quite ingenious I must say.

And rather dubious as well.

Cox is a master manipulator, and he has pulled off a major coup, right in front of everyone's wandering eyes.

Got to give the man credit.  

Not only have the PPs lost the Big 3 Indy legends, they have also lost Phil Mason (Andrean to Michigan City) and Kevin OShea (LCC to North Central) in the past two years.  Quite the PP exodus , I must say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

In Bobby Cox' world, it all comes down to percentages.  Using that criteria, the Success Factor is a HUGE win for he and his cronies.

Back in the 5 class days, which is when the Success Factor was designed and implemented, PPs were routinely winning 2 (40%), 3 (60%) and sometimes even 4 (80%) of the available state championship trophys in any given year.

In 2017, the PPs will win 1 of 6 titles (17%)

This is the only number that matters to Cox.  He will have achieved his objective of reducing the PP percentage of state titles while avoiding any possible PP initiated lawsuits and implementing a system that on the surface appears to be fair and equitable to all schools involved.

Quite ingenious I must say.

And rather dubious as well.

Cox is a master manipulator, and he has pulled off a major coup, right in front of everyone's wandering eyes.

Got to give the man credit.  

Not only have the PPs lost the Big 3 Indy legends, they have also lost Phil Mason (Andrean to Michigan City) and Kevin OShea (LCC to North Central) in the past two years.  Quite the PP exodus , I must say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ugh.....no clue

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Coach_G said:

Ugh.....no clue

He’s a well known troll... sometimes he is funny, sometimes he isn’t.. 

We just tell them to “work harder” 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

In Bobby Cox' world, it all comes down to percentages.  Using that criteria, the Success Factor is a HUGE win for he and his cronies.

Back in the 5 class days, which is when the Success Factor was designed and implemented, PPs were routinely winning 2 (40%), 3 (60%) and sometimes even 4 (80%) of the available state championship trophys in any given year.

In 2017, the PPs will win 1 of 6 titles (17%)

This is the only number that matters to Cox.  He will have achieved his objective of reducing the PP percentage of state titles while avoiding any possible PP initiated lawsuits and implementing a system that on the surface appears to be fair and equitable to all schools involved.

Quite ingenious I must say.

And rather dubious as well.

Cox is a master manipulator, and he has pulled off a major coup, right in front of everyone's wandering eyes.

Got to give the man credit.  

Not only have the PPs lost the Big 3 Indy legends, they have also lost Phil Mason (Andrean to Michigan City) and Kevin OShea (LCC to North Central) in the past two years.  Quite the PP exodus , I must say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No doubt he along with the success factor accounted for the 2016 election results as well.

I'm sure we will all be reading Cox's "The Prince II" in 50 years.

  • Haha 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

35 minutes ago, Coach_G said:

Ugh.....no clue

And also does disservice to the teams that beat P/P teams.  Good luck to Pioneer ... represent 1A North!

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

It appears Lysander got into the liquor cabinet early this holiday weekend. Good for you my friend. 

The Old Milwaukee with an "assist" is flowing freely here.  Kids home.  A new Pit Bull with one of them.  We're tearing it up here.

What are your plans this weekend?  Mine are still fluid (perhaps not the best choice of words in my case).

Edited by Lysander
  • Haha 3
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lysander said:

The Old Milwaukee with an "assist" is flowing freely here.  Kids home.  A new Pit Bull with one of them.  We're tearing up here.

What are your plans this weekend?  Mine are still fluid (perhaps not the best choice of words in my case).

Keep your (and my) liver active for years to come Ly....  :10_v:

Happy Thanksgiving !!!  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's some perspective-

I heard a group of my students talking about the competition in their league (who they are mandated to play by the NIAA) and they all agreed that some of the teams should have been promoted to a league in a higher class due to their perpetual dominance of the league. I mentioned that Indiana does that and it works out rather well.

Maybe the Success Factor is the right way to go.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Here's some perspective-

I heard a group of my students talking about the competition in their league (who they are mandated to play by the NIAA) and they all agreed that some of the teams should have been promoted to a league in a higher class due to their perpetual dominance of the league. I mentioned that Indiana does that and it works out rather well.

Maybe the Success Factor is the right way to go.

Sure because in the real world you're always on a level playing field. 

The success factor has achieved it's goal, at least this year. But in my opinion it's just an extension of our penalize success to be fair society. Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

  • Confused 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

54 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Sure because in the real world you're always on a level playing field. 

The success factor has achieved it's goal, at least this year. But in my opinion it's just an extension of our penalize success to be fair society. Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

This and so much more. Admission policies at our colleges and universities. Public construction project allocation. "penalize success to be fair society"

Edited by southend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Sure because in the real world you're always on a level playing field. 

The success factor has achieved it's goal, at least this year. But in my opinion it's just an extension of our penalize success to be fair society. Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

It's not so much about "penalizing wins and losses" but more about "competitive parity" and "incentivizing participation" . It's really difficult to get kids to show up for a sport when they know they've never beaten a team, and the odds are stacked against them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2017 at 10:18 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

Then why are high school coaches frequently fired due to their won-loss records even when they score well on your other 'measuring stick' items, whatever those items may be?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But I like the success factor for Indiana football, private or public schools.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2017 at 10:18 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

Sure because in the real world you're always on a level playing field. 

The success factor has achieved it's goal, at least this year. But in my opinion it's just an extension of our penalize success to be fair society. Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

Which life lessons provided by football are being foregone because of the success factor? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/23/2017 at 9:18 AM, Impartial_Observer said:

Sure because in the real world you're always on a level playing field. 

The success factor has achieved it's goal, at least this year. But in my opinion it's just an extension of our penalize success to be fair society. Wins and losses are not necessarily the measuring stick of high school sports, and I would think the success factor is counter productive to teaching life lessons. 

 

Which life lesson were you hoping to teach? I know “Fair” is the place one sees horses and pigs, but a level playing field is not an extraordinary impediment to a child’s vision “Real Life”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recent public school success is entirely due to the improvement in their youth programs which began to occur about 10 - 15 years ago.  

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that the same Tournament Success Factor is used in all IHSAA team sports.

It's been a positive influence & the IHSAA Member Schools should stick with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is Bobby Cox really rejoicing though? State Finals attendance for both days and 6 classes 35,302, the first time dropping below 40,000 since going to 6 classes. Last years attendance was 46,455.

I remember for years people were stating that attendance was declining because of P/P schools and/or the same teams in the State Championship each year. This year you had Eastern Greene, Woodlan, and Kokomo as new teams in the Championship. Only 2 of the 12 schools represented were P/P. I don't think either were the reason attendance had declined. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2017 at 9:35 AM, BDGiant93 said:

Westfield, New Pal, Snider, and other public schools have to play up. It's not just the PPs.

Westfield did not move from 5A to 6A due to the success factor. They were one point short of the 6 points required from the prior two year period. They moved up due to a huge enrollment increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Is Bobby Cox really rejoicing though? State Finals attendance for both days and 6 classes 35,302, the first time dropping below 40,000 since going to 6 classes. Last years attendance was 46,455.

I remember for years people were stating that attendance was declining because of P/P schools and/or the same teams in the State Championship each year. This year you had Eastern Greene, Woodlan, and Kokomo as new teams in the Championship. Only 2 of the 12 schools represented were P/P. I don't think either were the reason attendance had declined. 

It seemed like fewer Indy-area teams made the finals this year. Maybe that contributed to the attendance decline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Is Bobby Cox really rejoicing though? State Finals attendance for both days and 6 classes 35,302, the first time dropping below 40,000 since going to 6 classes. Last years attendance was 46,455.

I remember for years people were stating that attendance was declining because of P/P schools and/or the same teams in the State Championship each year. This year you had Eastern Greene, Woodlan, and Kokomo as new teams in the Championship. Only 2 of the 12 schools represented were P/P. I don't think either were the reason attendance had declined. 

Agreed.  If you look at the program for this year, it lists the highest attendance figures for five-class and six-class ball [2013 - 2017].

Year

Attendance

Attendance per game

P/P

Repeat

2016

46,455

7,743

2

2

2015

42,666

7,111

3

0

2014

44,503

7,417

2

3

2013

43,985

7,331

4

3

2009

46,162

9,232

2

2

2008

56,050

11,210

4

3

2007

51,217

10,243

4

3

2005

44,303

8,861

2

2

1993

43,701

8,740

1

0

I extended it out to compute the per game attendance to put it on apple/apples and also included the number of P/P schools in participation as well as the number of repeat teams from the year before.  Here's what this year looked like. 

Year

Attendance

Attendance per game

P/P

Repeat

2017

35,302

5,884

2

2

Like you, I think tying it to P/P and repeat appearance isn't a driving force.  @slice60 might be closer ... although I haven't looked at those numbers yet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe with this mild weather pattern we are now experiencing its time to consider moving back outdoors.

Those are horrible attendance numbers.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do think fewer Indy teams is a factor in low attendance. The Pacers are always in town the same weekend, and the holiday festivities on the circle are the same weekend, so casual Indy fans, with the nice weather, probably chose other options for the weekend this year. Smaller communities being represented in the finals would also contribute to lower attendance.

As far as Westfield moving up; attendance may have gotten them to 6A, but they won State and lost in the Semi State the year before. Snider HS moved up to 6A and did the exact same thing.....oddly enough, crossing paths with Westfield both seasons. They lost to them in Semi State last year and won State the year before. The success factor moved them up to 6A; so I don't know how it would not have done the same thing to Westfield.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.