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Taps Browning

Top 5 Coaches in Southern Indiana

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44 minutes ago, Taps Browning said:

You might be the only person in Loogootee right now that rates Chezem highly. :07_v:

Possibly. But the noise I have seen/heard have been from people I like to call *Deleted*s.

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59 minutes ago, Greene County Coach said:

Something I noticed on most of these coaches... a lot of them have a 5-7 year period of 20 win seasons that stand out against the rest of their career.  Take those years out... most have good, but not great win percentages.  Miller, Bradley, and even Hughes have some great runs of winning seasons that pad the stats.  Hart is in the middle of one of those stretches. 

My post was never meant to say Hart isn't a good coach, I was just providing numbers to back up the coaches on Taps list versus others lists.  I personally think Hart is a good coach and has made Linton into a very good basketball program the last several years even while being at a football first school.  With that said, not sure on the thought process of removing good stretches.  So if that is the case then you have to remove every coaches best 5-7 year period which would probably put everyone still in the same order.  If you remove Hart's best 5 year stretch his win percentage is now only .535.

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3 hours ago, Ltown said:

Possibly. But the noise I have seen/heard have been from people I like to call *Deleted*s.

Is that like being a "deplorable"?

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4 hours ago, Greene County Coach said:

Hmmm... I'll bite... 

Hart's record... 1st two years at Shakamak, Turkey Run, and Linton.  All schools with little to no desire to be a "basketball" school.  In the case of Linton and Shakamak, Joey operated in the shadow of other sports only to get them on almost equal ground.  Anyway... his record after the first two years at each school was like 46%... 61-73.  The rest of his tenure is at these schools is at about 68%.  That is in spite of working with the previous coach(s) feeder program. That isn't even taking into the typical weak classes that come through even with a strong feeder system.  If anything his lower win percentage proves he can win in more than one place against all odds.  

Something I noticed on most of these coaches... a lot of them have a 5-7 year period of 20 win seasons that stand out against the rest of their career.  Take those years out... most have good, but not great win percentages.  Miller, Bradley, and even Hughes have some great runs of winning seasons that pad the stats.  Hart is in the middle of one of those stretches. 

 I'm not as familiar with the larger school dynamics, so I don't know about Jeffersonville, New Albany, and Bloomington South. 

Brownstown Central's Dave Benter intrigues me.  He built a program at a school with a strong tradition as a football school... both programs have flourished.  They had some success a few years before he arrived, but they have had sustained success since he started.  Coach Hart and Coach Oliver have done the same at Linton.  Some coaches kill other sports.  They refuse to share athletes.  Personally, that is a huge strike against a HS coach at a small school.  Probably not as big of a deal at a bigger school.

You might have been better off to have left it unbitten :) I mean of course if you take away coach A's best seasons and then take away coach B's worst seasons then the two coaches winning percentages are going to be closer. The whole point of looking at career percentages is to take into account the inevitable flux in talent over the years.

But I certainly agree that it is easier to win in some places than others. There was a great feeder system already in place for coach Hughes for example. In the case of Benter they play a pretty weak schedule.

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Wins and win % don't always mean as much without further evaluating.  Jeff Moore is an example.

400-241, 7 sectionals, at least 2 regionals.  Not sure he'd be considered capable at the JH level. 

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Even a mediocre coach can have some success with talent.  Sullivan has had a few teams that should have done better in the tournament.  When Coach Moore's son went through... and the Smith boy are prime examples.  In my opinion, those teams underachieved in the post season.  I have always wondered if that is a product of Sullivan or the varsity coaches.  There is weird jealousy in their youth and JH programs.... Probably why many Dugger folks felt like outsiders.  From an outsiders view... they just seem like a bunch of people who want good things, but there is no uniform direction... which can be a problem.

Talent makes all the difference... Washington was amazing when Zeller's were walking the halls... then they dipped for a few years... now they seem to be back to a winning program.  It isn't as if their coach just coasted through a few years after all their success.

There are also some good young coaches working to build a program up.  Their winning percentage will take a hit.

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6 hours ago, Greene County Coach said:

Even a mediocre coach can have some success with talent.  Sullivan has had a few teams that should have done better in the tournament.  When Coach Moore's son went through... and the Smith boy are prime examples.  In my opinion, those teams underachieved in the post season.  I have always wondered if that is a product of Sullivan or the varsity coaches.  There is weird jealousy in their youth and JH programs.... Probably why many Dugger folks felt like outsiders.  From an outsiders view... they just seem like a bunch of people who want good things, but there is no uniform direction... which can be a problem.

Talent makes all the difference... Washington was amazing when Zeller's were walking the halls... then they dipped for a few years... now they seem to be back to a winning program.  It isn't as if their coach just coasted through a few years after all their success.

There are also some good young coaches working to build a program up.  Their winning percentage will take a hit.

Yep, "you gotta have the horses" is an old cliché, but it's true.

You mention the great Hatchet teams. No question the Zellers were key, but those teams had lots of other talent. Luke's team had Brian Bouchie who was also a D1 recruit. He probably had more talent than Luke did. Isaac Stoll was also very good on that team. Tyler Zeller had Seth Coy, also a D1 recruit - and the most improved kid in high school I have ever seen. He was off to a great start at the next level before the tragic car crash that took his life. Cody had Pittman who was very good and two excellent guards in Anthony and Irvin. All of those teams had good guards. You don't win state championships without good guards, no matter how may 7 footers you have.

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On 12/21/2017 at 9:18 AM, Greene County Coach said:

Even a mediocre coach can have some success with talent.  Sullivan has had a few teams that should have done better in the tournament.  When Coach Moore's son went through... and the Smith boy are prime examples. 

Disagree on Smith.  Washington was in that regional until Rhett was a Sr. His Sr year they bumped down to 2A and were beat by a Jt Yoho led EG that was the better team.  Had they stayed 3A they likely win the sectional, but no way they get through Guerin in 3A regional. 

Edited by hick

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May be right on Sullivan's dumb luck with their sectional switch from a weak 3A to a stronger 2A sectional.  I guess I wasn't thinking specific roadblocks as much as how the team seemed to peak as sophomores.  

   Yoho and Smith obviously different kids with different work ethics... Etc...  I couldn't help to think of them as a manifestation of their coaching.  Yoho seemed to blossom under Igel's coaching... And get better every year.  Smith had raw ability early, but seemed to peak. Of course, this is an outsiders view... may have been lots of outside forces pulling the team apart.   Knowing many of the Smith clan... I can't imagine attitude and effort were an issue.

I'll be interested to see how Moore does with his talented sophomores.  I haven't seen them since they played Linton in JH, but I hear there is some talent there... Some of which are making plays at the varsity level.

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On 12/18/2017 at 9:54 AM, Taps Browning said:

I probably should have mentioned Holmes. 765 wins and counting is hard to ignore. Also winning nearly 70% of your games at a 4A that was never a basketball school is impressive.

The reason I didn't mention him is basically rumor. The two current winningest coaches (Holmes and Keefer) are both called recruiters on these boards. I don't know if it's true or not but there is no question Bloomington South has had better talent than Bloomington North over the past 20 years or so. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

the folks up north think the state line ends at bloomingtons city limits........southern indiana imo would be from bedford on down,

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On 12/21/2017 at 4:23 PM, Taps Browning said:

Yep, "you gotta have the horses" is an old cliché, but it's true.

You mention the great Hatchet teams. No question the Zellers were key, but those teams had lots of other talent. Luke's team had Brian Bouchie who was also a D1 recruit. He probably had more talent than Luke did. Isaac Stoll was also very good on that team. Tyler Zeller had Seth Coy, also a D1 recruit - and the most improved kid in high school I have ever seen. He was off to a great start at the next level before the tragic car crash that took his life. Cody had Pittman who was very good and two excellent guards in Anthony and Irvin. All of those teams had good guards. You don't win state championships without good guards, no matter how may 7 footers you have.

How you forgetting Kyle Price? That kid made it all possible with Tyler/Coy. 

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Not sure about 2-5 but Miller would top my list, Yes he was loaded with talent in the state championship years but not every coach gets the most out of their talent look at Bosse the last two years the Dogs had as much talent as any 3A team in the state but came up short on quest for state title. But its not just what coach Miller did when he had talent but seasons like 2016-17 also started 2-4 and wasn't loaded with talent but after the bad start won 11 straight and 14 of 15 before the sectional loss. 

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11 hours ago, dave mosbey said:

Not sure about 2-5 but Miller would top my list, Yes he was loaded with talent in the state championship years but not every coach gets the most out of their talent look at Bosse the last two years the Dogs had as much talent as any 3A team in the state but came up short on quest for state title. But its not just what coach Miller did when he had talent but seasons like 2016-17 also started 2-4 and wasn't loaded with talent but after the bad start won 11 straight and 14 of 15 before the sectional loss. 

I can't put him at the top. I really don't like what he has done with the Hatchet schedule. Obviously that officially falls under his AD job, but all coaches have input into scheduling.

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On 12/26/2017 at 7:11 PM, Taps Browning said:

I can't put him at the top. I really don't like what he has done with the Hatchet schedule. Obviously that officially falls under his AD job, but all coaches have input into scheduling.

Water down the schedule? Makes sense, they're no longer the dominant force they once were. Lincoln watered theirs down years ago, compared to when I was there, yet still won some hardware in that time. 

 

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I'm afraid not. Lincoln plays a much better schedule than Washington. Plus you can't say a guy is the best coach and then say it is OK to dummy down the schedule because the program can no longer compete with the sort of schedule they should have. Those two things don't go together. In more simple words you can't be the best coach and at the same time have a program in decline.

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I would rank them:

1. Bryan Hughes (Barr-Reeve)

2. Gene Miller (Washington)

3. Dave Benter (Brownstown Central)

4. Kent Chezem (Loogootee)

5. Joey Hart (Linton)

I couldn't decide whether to put Gene Miller before Bryan Hughes. But ultimately, Itd be tougher for me to bet against one of Hughes's teams.

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