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falconsfbref

Rules Ideas

Question

I know its too late to submit, and the new NF rules should be out next month....but what are some ideas for new HS rules that should be added:  

Here are a couple of mine....

1.  Eliminate the coaches box.  No one can be in the 3 yard belt at any time.  This is for safety for all....and it just eliminates some sideline issues. NFL/NCAA have this rule

2.  Follow the NCAA/NFL rule of IF the runner goes out of bounds, wind the clock when ball is set.  If pass is incomplete, the clock stays stopped.  Of course, inside 4 or 2 min we could stop clock.  

3.  Go back to original rules for facemask/helmet opening fouls...15 yards.....safety issue and eliminates a judgement issue (NFL only has 15)

4.  Allow the QB to ground the ball "outside the tackle box".  Everyone thinks this is a rule already, NFL/NCAA allow it.......its time......keep same constraints: pass has to get to scrimmage.

 

Just a couple of thoughts......

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3 minutes ago, falconsfbref said:

I know its too late to submit, and the new NF rules should be out next month....but what are some ideas for new HS rules that should be added:  

Here are a couple of mine....

1.  Eliminate the coaches box.  No one can be in the 3 yard belt at any time.  This is for safety for all....and it just eliminates some sideline issues. NFL/NCAA have this rule

2.  Follow the NCAA/NFL rule of IF the runner goes out of bounds, wind the clock when ball is set.  If pass is incomplete, the clock stays stopped.  Of course, inside 4 or 2 min we could stop clock.  

3.  Go back to original rules for facemask/helmet opening fouls...15 yards.....safety issue and eliminates a judgement issue (NFL only has 15)

4.  Allow the QB to ground the ball "outside the tackle box".  Everyone thinks this is a rule already, NFL/NCAA allow it.......its time......keep same constraints: pass has to get to scrimmage.

 

Just a couple of thoughts......

I am passionate about #4.  I like it.

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Hate #2.  That's done for television reasons in NFL & NCAA.  Leave it the way it is.  What else do you have to do on a Friday night?  Next you'll want to do it for incomplete passes.

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19 minutes ago, falconsfbref said:

I know its too late to submit, and the new NF rules should be out next month....but what are some ideas for new HS rules that should be added:  

Here are a couple of mine....

1.  Eliminate the coaches box.  No one can be in the 3 yard belt at any time.  This is for safety for all....and it just eliminates some sideline issues. NFL/NCAA have this rule

2.  Follow the NCAA/NFL rule of IF the runner goes out of bounds, wind the clock when ball is set.  If pass is incomplete, the clock stays stopped.  Of course, inside 4 or 2 min we could stop clock.  

3.  Go back to original rules for facemask/helmet opening fouls...15 yards.....safety issue and eliminates a judgement issue (NFL only has 15)

4.  Allow the QB to ground the ball "outside the tackle box".  Everyone thinks this is a rule already, NFL/NCAA allow it.......its time......keep same constraints: pass has to get to scrimmage.

 

Just a couple of thoughts......

HA!! Good luck with that

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n

46 minutes ago, jets said:

HA!! Good luck with that

 An alternative would be some guidance from North Meridian going out to both coaches and officials that says there will be “zero tolerance” for nonplayers in the restricted area while the ball is alive. No informal warnings. Just start the sideline warning procedure. The rule is there, but enforced only sporadically through fear of generating a bad coaches’ vote. 

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11 minutes ago, bobref said:

n

 An alternative would be some guidance from North Meridian going out to both coaches and officials that says there will be “zero tolerance” for nonplayers in the restricted area while the ball is alive. No informal warnings. Just start the sideline warning procedure. The rule is there, but enforced only sporadically through fear of generating a bad coaches’ vote. 

I'm a big fan of addressing the sidelines/coaches box issues.  

I'd also be a big fan of addressing language/cussing coming from the coaches on the sidelines but I know that'll never happen.  

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1 hour ago, Titan20 said:

Hate #2.  That's done for television reasons in NFL & NCAA.  Leave it the way it is.  What else do you have to do on a Friday night?  Next you'll want to do it for incomplete passes.

Not true, they did it so they would not have 3-1/2 hour games.  HS games are pushing the 2-1/2 to 3 hour range with all the passing.   

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44 minutes ago, falconsfbref said:

Not true, they did it so they would not have 3-1/2 hour games.  HS games are pushing the 2-1/2 to 3 hour range with all the passing.   

Exactly 3-1/2 hour games plus commercials don't work for television.  The main reason is being able to package games with commercials in 3 hours.

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10 hours ago, falconsfbref said:

Not true, they did it so they would not have 3-1/2 hour games.  HS games are pushing the 2-1/2 to 3 hour range with all the passing.   

They did it entirely for TV and no other reason(they want the game done in 3 hours 10 minutes). Which is exactly why #4 needs to stay the way it is. Know that ALL the rule changes in college and pro are to help out:

1. TV

2. Scoring 

3. The perception of safety

why allow the qb to throw it away under pressure? With so many defensive people on the rules board I don't see this ever changing. Why penalize the defense for making a play? 

Edited by Huge football fan

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19 hours ago, bobref said:

n

 An alternative would be some guidance from North Meridian going out to both coaches and officials that says there will be “zero tolerance” for nonplayers in the restricted area while the ball is alive. No informal warnings. Just start the sideline warning procedure. The rule is there, but enforced only sporadically through fear of generating a bad coaches’ vote. 

I just don't get the "purpose/why" .  I get the safety issue of the official. If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty. If the official is getting unfairly...or fairly for that matter, berated on the sideline by coaches, sure, toss the flag and give the team a 15 yard penalty. 

What I do NOT get, and get frustrated with....is when I'm trying to COACH. Yes, we coaches try and be as prepared as possible leading up to the game so that instruction is minimal during game time...but believe it or not, situations come up where my voice is needed...and is needed to be HEARD. 3 feet may not seem like much...but what is the big deal if the play/ball isn't "live" and I'm trying to yell instructions to my Defensive Back across the field?? I personally appreciate the officials who "get it" and allow a little leeway within the rule. 

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1 hour ago, jets said:

I just don't get the "purpose/why" .  I get the safety issue of the official. If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty. If the official is getting unfairly...or fairly for that matter, berated on the sideline by coaches, sure, toss the flag and give the team a 15 yard penalty. 

What I do NOT get, and get frustrated with....is when I'm trying to COACH. Yes, we coaches try and be as prepared as possible leading up to the game so that instruction is minimal during game time...but believe it or not, situations come up where my voice is needed...and is needed to be HEARD. 3 feet may not seem like much...but what is the big deal if the play/ball isn't "live" and I'm trying to yell instructions to my Defensive Back across the field?? I personally appreciate the officials who "get it" and allow a little leeway within the rule. 

Nice try at being passive aggressive but the issue is coaches done get out of the way and most times are "coaching" and not yelling at the officials but when an official runs into a coach and breaks his leg or tears his acl the official is still hurt and still effects his regular job/life. Coaches and non players stand in the restricted area way too much and officials have to look ahead but worry about what's next to them and they shouldn't have too. It's hard enough with 5 guys to watch 22 without having to worry about running into someone standing in the way

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5 hours ago, jets said:

I just don't get the "purpose/why" .  I get the safety issue of the official. If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty. If the official is getting unfairly...or fairly for that matter, berated on the sideline by coaches, sure, toss the flag and give the team a 15 yard penalty. 

What I do NOT get, and get frustrated with....is when I'm trying to COACH. Yes, we coaches try and be as prepared as possible leading up to the game so that instruction is minimal during game time...but believe it or not, situations come up where my voice is needed...and is needed to be HEARD. 3 feet may not seem like much...but what is the big deal if the play/ball isn't "live" and I'm trying to yell instructions to my Defensive Back across the field?? I personally appreciate the officials who "get it" and allow a little leeway within the rule. 

I hear ya....but can you answer this.....with way more crowd noise  and bigger stadiums, how does a college or NFL coach stay out of the area and the players still get it?  Yes, 1 has a mic in the helmet, but the DB's do not.  I dont care if they move the team box down to the 20....just keep everyone out of the box....

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5 hours ago, jets said:

I just don't get the "purpose/why" .  I get the safety issue of the official. If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty. If the official is getting unfairly...or fairly for that matter, berated on the sideline by coaches, sure, toss the flag and give the team a 15 yard penalty. .

The idea is to prevent, not punish.

I worked a wing this past year, and I can say from my own experience that if I had followed the rule and called it every time there was someone in the restricted area while the ball was alive, I would have been in double figures for sideline warnings every game, and would have had multiple ejections. As written, the rule allows you to “coach” from the restricted area ... until the ball becomes alive. The problem is, most coaches won’t get out of the restricted area until there is the potential for conflict, and by then, it’s often too late. If I have to run around you to get downfield, I can’t do my job. So, it’s definitely inadequate to say “If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty.” That’s closing the barn after the horse is out.

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3 hours ago, bobref said:

The idea is to prevent, not punish.

I worked a wing this past year, and I can say from my own experience that if I had followed the rule and called it every time there was someone in the restricted area while the ball was alive, I would have been in double figures for sideline warnings every game, and would have had multiple ejections. As written, the rule allows you to “coach” from the restricted area ... until the ball becomes alive. The problem is, most coaches won’t get out of the restricted area until there is the potential for conflict, and by then, it’s often too late. If I have to run around you to get downfield, I can’t do my job. So, it’s definitely inadequate to say “If he runs into a coach, by all means, flag the sideline and make it a 15 yard penalty.” That’s closing the barn after the horse is out.

I gotcha ...and am in total agreement with you. When the play is LIVE, officials should have their area. They shouldn't have to worry about me as a coach on the sideline. If you go back and read my entire post...my issue is with the official who has a problem with me trying to communicate with a DB on the opposite side of the field when no snap is innement. 

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1 hour ago, jets said:

I gotcha ...and am in total agreement with you. When the play is LIVE, officials should have their area. They shouldn't have to worry about me as a coach on the sideline. If you go back and read my entire post...my issue is with the official who has a problem with me trying to communicate with a DB on the opposite side of the field when no snap is innement. 

I understand. I guess his rationale is that once someone gets in the restricted area, it’s hard to get them out. Better to keep them out in the first place. An ounce of prevention ...

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15 hours ago, bobref said:

I understand. I guess his rationale is that once someone gets in the restricted area, it’s hard to get them out. Better to keep them out in the first place. An ounce of prevention ...

Why is it hard to keep them out, just flag it if they stay in when the ball is live, 1-2 flags and they will get out.  It is only difficult if you let it be difficult

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2 hours ago, iubirdman said:

Why is it hard to keep them out, just flag it if they stay in when the ball is live, 1-2 flags and they will get out.  It is only difficult if you let it be difficult

Lets break it down this way.  For JV/Fresh/Middle School games, I agree...the coaches should be given more leeway...they are teaching younger players and they do get more leeway from officials (or should).  For varsity game, and I have worked over 70 varsity  games as a sideline official.......The sidelines are usually packed with non-players and/or numerous assistants.  If you throw the first flag, it works and everyone stays back for maybe 1/2 quarter.  If you throw another one, the team is penalized, and the staff is now usually very upset and goes overboard (I have seen coaches make players go stand on the track) and its usually never a player in the box during a play.  The next is 15 and then it gets worse.    And I will say this....its usually never an issue with the HC being in the box during play.   Also, the rule as currently written is only 3 coaches can be in box calling plays....most games there are 6-8 coaches yelling in the box between plays.  Do you want to see a bunch of flags for that?  I am guessing no....and that is why 99.9% of officials allow that.  I do not understand why yelling from 3 yards off field is any different than standing right on the sideline....sound will travel those 3 yards just fine....the official running into the coach might not end up fine. 

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18 hours ago, iubirdman said:

Why is it hard to keep them out, just flag it if they stay in when the ball is live, 1-2 flags and they will get out.  It is only difficult if you let it be difficult

Dude, you’ve got to live on that sideline for the entire game. If only it were as simple as you suggest. Officials whose response is always to reach for the flag don’t last very long ... and don’t have any fun.

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It is like anything else, make it a POE, call it often early and it will not be an issue later on.  Players and coaches actually do have the ability to adjust to how games are being called!!!  The issue is if it is only called one time out of 10 that the rule is broke.  I would guess if it is enforced universally, as written, for about 2 weeks, maybe just one, the issue would be solved.

That is one of the issues that the officials who are complaining about it can actually fix, and easily.  If you do not want people in the box, just flag it, and like I said if done universally and every time for a week or 2 I would guarantee there would not be extras in the box week 3!!

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1 hour ago, iubirdman said:

It is like anything else, make it a POE, call it often early and it will not be an issue later on.  Players and coaches actually do have the ability to adjust to how games are being called!!!  The issue is if it is only called one time out of 10 that the rule is broke.  I would guess if it is enforced universally, as written, for about 2 weeks, maybe just one, the issue would be solved.

That is one of the issues that the officials who are complaining about it can actually fix, and easily.  If you do not want people in the box, just flag it, and like I said if done universally and every time for a week or 2 I would guarantee there would not be extras in the box week 3!!

Blah blah blah. When officials say/act this way coaches go nuts. You know the rule, it's a safety rule, just get out of the way and off the white. What you always hear is why are you even looking over here the game is in front of you. Coaches get all bent out of shape and act disrespectful and make it miserable on the sideline which in turn is the main reason it's hard to get new officials to stay because no one wants to deal/hear all that noise. 

For the most part though as long as coaches are out of the way and away from the wing it's fine. Then there is a turnover and the coach stays in the white, official changes direction starts to run and is watching the play and "bam" they run into the coach. That's where the safety issue comes into play. 

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35 minutes ago, Huge football fan said:

Coaches get all bent out of shape and act disrespectful and make it miserable on the sideline

Again the officials have total control over this, if they act disrespectful throw the unsportsmanlike flag, and if it continues get rid of them.  If it is consistent throughout the state early, it gets taken care of in a few weeks.   

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30 minutes ago, iubirdman said:

Again the officials have total control over this, if they act disrespectful throw the unsportsmanlike flag, and if it continues get rid of them.  If it is consistent throughout the state early, it gets taken care of in a few weeks.   

Lol. Paper champ!!!! 

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14 minutes ago, Huge football fan said:

Lol. Paper champ!!!! 

What in that statement is wrong?  I find parts of this post really funny, officials complaining about teams having to many people in the coaching box, yet being the only ones who can fix it, but think it is stupid to assume they should fix it!!!

Real question, if you do not want to listen to sidelines complain about enforcing the rule the way it is now, why do you think they would be different if the rule was made more strict and enforced?  

Like I said coaches and players will adjust, it is not their fault many crews just choose to not enforce is because they do want want to get yelled at.  Oh yea, and they do not want to throw a flag on the coaches when they argue for actually enforcing a rule!!!

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17 hours ago, iubirdman said:

What in that statement is wrong?  I find parts of this post really funny, officials complaining about teams having to many people in the coaching box, yet being the only ones who can fix it, but think it is stupid to assume they should fix it!!!

Real question, if you do not want to listen to sidelines complain about enforcing the rule the way it is now, why do you think they would be different if the rule was made more strict and enforced?  

Like I said coaches and players will adjust, it is not their fault many crews just choose to not enforce is because they do want want to get yelled at.  Oh yea, and they do not want to throw a flag on the coaches when they argue for actually enforcing a rule!!!

Watch the NFL and college...NO ONE IS IN THE BOX. I am sure HS can do the same.  Right now, the rule allows there to be time when 3 can be in box and times when they cannot...my only point of changing the rule is elimintate any confusion and safety issues...

I can tell you from experience...here is a story......before every game, I walk over to head coach, tell him that I work the back of the box...I show him where I will be standing at snap and where I will be working from...In other words, I have my heels on the back of the coaches box.  Our R would also point this out in the pregame meeting and explain the sideline warnings.  You would be shocked how many thought I was crazy when I notified them....   One game.....on opening kickoff....I am working the back of the box, and on the KO return, there is a coach in middle of the box.  I throw a sideline warning flag.  The HC goes crazy because it was 1st play of game.  Lets just say the sideline was horrible rest of game.  

Most crews probably do not enorce strict because of fear of coaches vote....and thats a shame.  And to anwer your "real question" I can listen and handle complaining about rulest interpretations from the HC all game long.  I just dont want to run into or have to run around someone while trying to work.  Everyone wants the official to focus on the field, and I agree....but running full speed, you have to keep looking down sideline because there is a pretty good chance some assistant coach is going to be in the way......

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3 hours ago, falconsfbref said:

Watch the NFL and college...NO ONE IS IN THE BOX. I am sure HS can do the same.  Right now, the rule allows there to be time when 3 can be in box and times when they cannot...my only point of changing the rule is elimintate any confusion and safety issues...

 

How many NFL games are played on a field with a track surrounding it?  That doesn't negate your point, but it's not an apples to apples comparison. 

The Steelers and Cowboys don't have to worry about Joe Schmoe AD who just spent a lot of money resurfacing their track and doesn't want a bench or Gatorade table sitting on it.

It's also rare that the sideline is evenly split home/visitor on most fields that I have seen as well.

I think those two are the main reasons why you would get pushback from trying to keep coaches completely out of the box.

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