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trojanmp52

what 3 rules would you like to see change next year

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what 3 rules would you like to see change next year. 

my 3 are

PIF should be a spot foul and first down and  not just  15 yards

the max dress for the playoffs should be lifted

move the start time of the games back to 730

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Enforcement of a holding penalty that occurs behind the neutral zone on a pass play should be changed to the previous spot, not spot of the foul.

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2 hours ago, bobref said:

Enforcement of a holding penalty that occurs behind the neutral zone on a pass play should be changed to the previous spot, not spot of the foul.

I agree Bob. Ugggh, I hate that rule. 

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3 hours ago, bobref said:

Enforcement of a holding penalty that occurs behind the neutral zone on a pass play should be changed to the previous spot, not spot of the foul.

All holding should be previous spot fouls. I hate seeing a holding called down field on say a first and 10, and after marking off the penalty, it now becomes first and 2. Basically, the offense gains 8 yards on a non play. So, I believe that it should be previous spot on all holding calls. 

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heard at our Region Meeting that 2 rules being talked about by the higher ups are...1) a change to Intentional Grounding...not sure what that change would be...and 2) discussions on making all cut blocks illegal no matter when or where they occur......I don't mind the 'down field' hold enforcement.....don't think a wr hold way downfield on..say..a 40 yard run should be previous spot...seems like a pretty harsh penalty...if it occurred close to runner being down..that could basically be a 50ish yard walk off...

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5 hours ago, WWGibby said:

heard at our Region Meeting that 2 rules being talked about by the higher ups are...1) a change to Intentional Grounding...not sure what that change would be...and 2) discussions on making all cut blocks illegal no matter when or where they occur......I don't mind the 'down field' hold enforcement.....don't think a wr hold way downfield on..say..a 40 yard run should be previous spot...seems like a pretty harsh penalty...if it occurred close to runner being down..that could basically be a 50ish yard walk off...

That would give 30 yards on a non play. Solution to that 50 yard walk off is simple. Don’t hold. 

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I would love for the enforcement of illegal man down field and (or) PI for true RPO plays. But hey, I’m just a defensive guy, what do I know? 😂

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On 1/6/2018 at 7:42 AM, bobref said:

Enforcement of a holding penalty that occurs behind the neutral zone on a pass play should be changed to the previous spot, not spot of the foul.

So you're fine with the way it is now beyond the LOS?  If so, I'm with you on both aspects. 

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:17 AM, Transplantedpanther said:

All holding should be previous spot fouls. I hate seeing a holding called down field on say a first and 10, and after marking off the penalty, it now becomes first and 2. Basically, the offense gains 8 yards on a non play. So, I believe that it should be previous spot on all holding calls. 

The logic of fouls being enforced from the spot (assuming run ends beyond the spot of the foul) is the team legally gained the yardage to that point. So on a 40-yard run with the hold 30 yards beyond the LOS they legally gained those 30 yards so let them have them. But then enforce the penalty from there. I'm also a huge proponent of most fouls behind the LOS by the offense enforced from the previous spot rather than spot. A holding penalty is already a drive killer. Adding another 5-10 yards to it is excessive.

The same applies to fouls by the defense on runs that end behind the LOS. The best example is defensive holding and the QB is subsequently sacked. That's a running play by definition since possession was never lost. If it's a 10-yard sack enforcement will be from the spot of the sack. But if the QB fumbles the ball and recovers it, the foul now happened during a loose ball play and it's enforced from the previous spot. It doesn't happen often (I can only think of it happening 2 or 3 times in my career), but it is an unfair enforcement.

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10 hours ago, THE FOOTBALL GUY said:

I would love for the enforcement of illegal man down field 

Yup - I get the fact that officials have a million things to watch - but this - in my opinion- is the MOST missed call among officials. 

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6 Man referring crew, but with the shortage of officials this is just a pipe dream

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I realize that it is not an officiating rule, but would love to see the IHSAA drop the 300-mile ban on travel.

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23 hours ago, jets said:

Yup - I get the fact that officials have a million things to watch - but this - in my opinion- is the MOST missed call among officials. 

With RPO this is a issue but you say this is the most missed call do you know what the rule actually is? Nothing worse then hearing a coach yell and scream about a rule they think they know and they are totally wrong. 

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43 minutes ago, Huge football fan said:

With RPO this is a issue but you say this is the most missed call do you know what the rule actually is? Nothing worse then hearing a coach yell and scream about a rule they think they know and they are totally wrong. 

Let's hear it!

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1 hour ago, Huge football fan said:

With RPO this is a issue but you say this is the most missed call do you know what the rule actually is? Nothing worse then hearing a coach yell and scream about a rule they think they know and they are totally wrong. 

Now you've got me curious. In what way are coaches totally wrong in their understanding of this rule? I've always thought it was pretty clear and easy to understand.

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2 hours ago, Huge football fan said:

With RPO this is a issue but you say this is the most missed call do you know what the rule actually is? Nothing worse then hearing a coach yell and scream about a rule they think they know and they are totally wrong. 

Well - I played in a RPO scheme in college so I have a pretty good idea of it's concepts as well as the rules regulating them. As I understand it, at both the College and High School level the lineman are allowed a "3 yard window" downfield when it comes to pass protection. I would be more in favor of the NFL's 1 yard ...but I digress. 

Most of the RPO schemes are built around a "zone-blocking" concept which in some cases, keeps the lineman moving laterally for a good bit...however when an uncovered lineman is trying to reach a LB, yet the ball is flying over his head for a pass - to me something is wrong there. I've seen it too many times to count - yet the officials I've encountered seem to give the benefit of the doubt to that "3 yard window" ......

To me its more of a problem of the way the rule is written I guess - to much in this direction and you'll have chaos all over!! We'll look like little 3 graders out there just running around playing ball. 

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16 minutes ago, jets said:

Well - I played in a RPO scheme in college so I have a pretty good idea of it's concepts as well as the rules regulating them. As I understand it, at both the College and High School level the lineman are allowed a "3 yard window" downfield when it comes to pass protection. I would be more in favor of the NFL's 1 yard ...but I digress. 

Most of the RPO schemes are built around a "zone-blocking" concept which in some cases, keeps the lineman moving laterally for a good bit...however when an uncovered lineman is trying to reach a LB, yet the ball is flying over his head for a pass - to me something is wrong there. I've seen it too many times to count - yet the officials I've encountered seem to give the benefit of the doubt to that "3 yard window" ......

To me its more of a problem of the way the rule is written I guess - to much in this direction and you'll have chaos all over!! We'll look like little 3 graders out there just running around playing ball. 

Linemen are allowed in 2 yards in HS. And the key error most people make is when the limitation ends. They can't go more than 2 yards before the ball is released. As I mentioned on the officiating forum there are many times where it looks like the lineman is 3-4 yards downfield or more, but when the ball was released they are still within the 2 yards allowable. It's a pretty tricky call to make with the RPO offenses because there are several different factors in different parts of the field the covering official has to make largely due to the timing - where is play A when player B in a different part of the field does something?

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4 hours ago, Bullhorn99 said:

Now you've got me curious. In what way are coaches totally wrong in their understanding of this rule? I've always thought it was pretty clear and easy to understand.

It wasn't just this rule it's most rules. The lack of rules knowledge at times is comical. Just like this example he gave all these reasons why he knew the rule and he has known it for a while but was actually wrong in his understanding of the rule. It's not a knock on anyone just an observation. I doubt most coaches have ever sat down and read the whole rule book. There are actually a lot of things in there they could take advantage of if they knew the rules better. A good example was a few weeks ago in the NBA game when they intentionally offensive goal tended on a inbounds pass. If more people knew that was leagal they would do it end of game senerio all the time

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8 minutes ago, Huge football fan said:

It wasn't just this rule it's most rules. The lack of rules knowledge at times is comical. Just like this example he gave all these reasons why he knew the rule and he has known it for a while but was actually wrong in his understanding of the rule. It's not a knock on anyone just an observation. I doubt most coaches have ever sat down and read the whole rule book. There are actually a lot of things in there they could take advantage of if they knew the rules better. A good example was a few weeks ago in the NBA game when they intentionally offensive goal tended on a inbounds pass. If more people knew that was leagal they would do it end of game senerio all the time

Yes, but you specifically referred to this particular rule and said that coaches frequently got it totally wrong. I'm curious what that rule actually is and how exactly coaches are misunderstanding it.

 

i know that one post refers to a 3 yard cushion past the LOS and another said it was 2. I tried to look it up in the NHSF rule book and found no mention of the 2-3 yard cushion. Maybe I missed something??

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2 hours ago, Huge football fan said:

It wasn't just this rule it's most rules. The lack of rules knowledge at times is comical. Just like this example he gave all these reasons why he knew the rule and he has known it for a while but was actually wrong in his understanding of the rule. It's not a knock on anyone just an observation. I doubt most coaches have ever sat down and read the whole rule book. There are actually a lot of things in there they could take advantage of if they knew the rules better. A good example was a few weeks ago in the NBA game when they intentionally offensive goal tended on a inbounds pass. If more people knew that was leagal they would do it end of game senerio all the time

Ok Mr. Know-it-all...I was off by a yard (which in my defense- I was actually told by an official this year it was 3) but wasn't off in my "understanding of the rule" .

My original premise- with the rise of  RPO teams this rule needs to be more strictly enforced and isn't. In fact it is often just blatantly missed/ignored...as explained to me above, I guess officials have too many other things to be watching- like a coaches placement on the sideline. 

 

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2 hours ago, Bullhorn99 said:

Yes, but you specifically referred to this particular rule and said that coaches frequently got it totally wrong. I'm curious what that rule actually is and how exactly coaches are misunderstanding it.

i know that one post refers to a 3 yard cushion past the LOS and another said it was 2. I tried to look it up in the NHSF rule book and found no mention of the 2-3 yard cushion. Maybe I missed something??

Rule 7-5-12: Ineligible A players may not advance beyond the expanded neutral zone on a legal forward pass play before the last pass which crosses the neutral zone is in flight. If B touches the pass in or behind the neutral zone, this restriction is terminated. An ineligible is not illegally downfield if, at the snap, he immediately contacts a B lineman and the contact does not continue beyond the expanded neutral zone.

Definitions are key in the rules, and I highlighted the critical words above. The first one is expanded neutral zone. It's defined in rule 2-28-2: The neutral zone may be expanded following the snap up to a maximum of 2 yards behind the defensive line of scrimmage, in the field of play, during any scrimmage down. The next two are where the legal forward pass must cross the neutral zone for this to apply so a pass caught behind the LOS wouldn't apply or a backward pass or an illegal forward pass (i.e. intentional grounding). I also bolded the "in flight" part to show where the timing applies.

I hope that helps!

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Ban all cut blocks

Remove 75 player limits

Get taunting out of the game - Not sure if that requires a new rule or enforcement of existing rules

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1 hour ago, Grover said:

Ban all cut blocks

Remove 75 player limits

Get taunting out of the game - Not sure if that requires a new rule or enforcement of existing rules

Pretty low threshold now for taunting. What are you seeing that's not called? Eliminate all low blocks has been on the rules proposals for a couple years. Based on this year's survey I assume it's on again. Low blocks are pretty limited already in HS compared to other levels.

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