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Staxawax

Center Grove football coach under investigation following allegations of verbal abuse

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19 minutes ago, Patch33 said:

  The coaches running the program deserve something for their time and expertise Trust me, nobody is getting rich).  

 

Coaching stipends are already being paid for their time and expertise, and if they aren't getting rich off of the extra money then why charge?

 

21 minutes ago, Patch33 said:

Most parents will go out and spend thousands of dollars for this kind of training and others.  Would it be better to provide this service at a much higher cost so it is attainable to only the economically well to do off site?  Or is it better to provide low cost ( sometimes free) age appropriate training at the schools. 

 

It is better to provide free age appropriate training at schools, that's why most schools do it.

 

35 minutes ago, Patch33 said:

So why is it unethical or scandalous to provide a training in strength and fitness to all athletes in your district and charge them?  

 

I think we would all agree that the weight room is part of any successful football program and any successful athletic program in general. Many coaches throughout the state are PE teachers who have classes during the day for weight lifting (I'm not sure if Center Grove has this but I would assume a school that size and in that conference would have one), they are already being compensated to do that job.

A weight coach being paid by students for a lifting club would be like a basketball coach being paid for hosting an Open Gym workout (which may be common practice somewhere but I've never heard of). It's especially scandalous if the coach in question has been accused of "threatening and bullying athletes who choose to train with private trainers outside of the school".

I could see a coach being upset if a kid is spending money to be trained when he could be trained for free, but if you're mad that they're paying someone else instead of you that's an issue. It creates a conflict of interest where players who attended the Lifting Club could be seen as receiving preferential treatment compared to those who didn't, resulting in angry parents, hence the current "scandal" Center Grove finds themselves in. 

 

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It creates the perception of a conflict of interest.

Example - coach saves "specific" training techniques and tactics for his paid business, while withholding those same techniques from regular school training provided on school premises

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tango said:

That wasn't exactly my point.  I didn't know enough (anything really) about CG's situation or environment to accuse anyone  there of impropriety.  My point(s) were: (1)  it seems fraught with peril; and (2) do other schools/coaches have fee-based programs?  Having learned a little more from other GID CG contributors, I would agree 100% that there is certainly nothing wrong with having a voluntary program to help kids become better athletes, but charging them and using school facilities is something I would discourage our coach from doing (if it were even allowed by school officials).  Our feeder school (middle school grades) can attend our strength program before or after school, which is primarily run by the football program even though athletes in other sports participate.  But there is no charge.  And granted, it is an extra burden on the coaches, who are already woefully underpaid and underappreciated by the people who have no idea how much time they sacrifice (which sadly is the vast majority of the people). 

When you mix money and the use of school facilities, all it takes is one ticked off parent or faculty member.... 

And I will repeat, you are way, way on the outside trying to look in, and you have no idea how it was set up and established years, and years ago, who Coach Moore works with, etc..  You are making assumptions.  Again, lots of pretty smart people have been involved with the set-up and management of this program.

If you wish to educate yourself more about the program, use your favorite search engine. You might even find a newspaper article.

Edited by Trojan Dad
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7 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

And I will repeat, you are way, way on the outside trying to look in, and you have no idea how it was set up and established years, and years ago, who Coach Moore works with, etc..  You are making assumptions.  Again, lots of pretty smart people have been involved with the set-up and management of this program.

If you wish to educate yourself more about the program, use your favorite search engine. You might even find a newspaper article.

I used my favorite search engine and found some stuff . . . 

https://centergrovefootball.sportngin.com/page/show/3333985-power-club

https://cdn4.sportngin.com/attachments/document/0122/5202/2018_Trojan_Power_Club_Reg.pdf

I'm not denying the benefits that kids have gotten through this program, club, camp whatever anyone wants to call it. But I've still never seen a coach have middle school kids pay to be a part of the strength program (and I've never seen a strength program for elementary kids so I can't comment on that). 

Regardless, this still puts any coach involved in the program in a conflict of interest. 

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2 minutes ago, Gamecock Part Deux said:

 

 

Coaching stipends are already being paid for their time and expertise, and if they aren't getting rich off of the extra money then why charge?

 

 

It is better to provide free age appropriate training at schools, that's why most schools do it.

 

 

I think we would all agree that the weight room is part of any successful football program and any successful athletic program in general. Many coaches throughout the state are PE teachers who have classes during the day for weight lifting (I'm not sure if Center Grove has this but I would assume a school that size and in that conference would have one), they are already being compensated to do that job.

A weight coach being paid by students for a lifting club would be like a basketball coach being paid for hosting an Open Gym workout (which may be common practice somewhere but I've never heard of). IF you are talking about his current High School athletes, I agree.    It's especially scandalous if the coach in question has been accused of "threatening and bullying athletes who choose to train with private trainers outside of the school". I do not condone threatening a bullying athletes, but I am guessing coach Moore wants his players doing workouts as a team. Perhaps the way he delivered that message to someone was inappropriate, but I am guessing that is what it was. 

I could see a coach being upset if a kid is spending money to be trained when he could be trained for free, but if you're mad that they're paying someone else instead of you that's an issue. It creates a conflict of interest where players who attended the Lifting Club could be seen as receiving preferential treatment compared to those who didn't, resulting in angry parents, hence the current "scandal" Center Grove finds themselves in.  BS.. coaches play kids that can play .

 

Coaches technically get paid to coach their sport from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. There is not contractual obligation to coach a sport outside of the season to gain your stipend.  

The expertise they are sharing is with kids from all sports not just with football kids grades 1-7. ( I'm not talking about official off season football workouts here). Charge....because our time is worth something even if not much. I think my stipend for football comes out to less the 5 cents an hour.  You all say we should be ok with that because it is the life we chose. Ok. Then you all should be ok with the products on Fridays regardless, because of what you are willing to pay.  Most of you are way over served by the coaches and teachers in your community. 

I often wonder why in every segment of society people get paid for extra hours and doing extra things, but for some reason you all expect teachers and coaches not to get paid to do extra things outside of their contracts. Firemen get paid by the hour, Policemen get paid by the hour.... why not teachers?  Are those professions eating at the public trough. I really wonder how many of you all do parts of your work for free. It's funny, you all think our jobs are easy and we are overpaid... yet teaching is one of the highest stress jobs in our country.  You capitalist should take over, because there is a teacher shortage and the law of supply and demand says that salaries should go up. They aren't.

 

By this thinking, teachers should be happy to do clubs and extra- curriculars after regular contract hours for nothing. (Betsy DeVoss)

 

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5 hours ago, Gamecock Part Deux said:

 

I have a few questions . . . 

First, the article claims this is a "fee based" program run through Center Grove schools. Assuming the article is correct why would a Physical Education teacher be charging kids to come and work out, isn't that part of the job? I have seen many different programs bring middle school kids to the weight room with the intent of preparing them for once they become high school players and building a program, not to make money.

Second, how much is the cost and where are the funds going. I ask cost because if it's something extremely affordable then why charge them at all, if not what are the funds raised through the Center Grove Power Club being used for, I would hope they would be used to upgrade the weight facilities with the newer and better equipment. From an outside perspective though it seems like it's a little shady.

Last, how involved is the coaching staff with this program? When you say it is coached by players on the high school team I think of it two ways. One, that's great for high school kids to be involved with younger players and I could see them leading pee wee kids through push ups, sit ups, pull ups, etc. But the other part would worry me if I were a parent in that I'm thinking, and this based off my experience with other middle school weight programs,  the 7th and 8th graders, maybe even the younger kids, are learning how to do core lifts with proper technique. Not that high school kids can't teach that but I would think if I'm paying for my kid to learn how to properly lift it would be taught by a professional not a high school kid. 

The way this program has been presented thus far, and the alleged actions made towards students who don't participate, make it seem very seedy. Now I'm probably wrong about the way I'm perceiving it but from an outsiders perspective this doesn't paint a great picture for the program and school.

I haven't known anyone involved in the program in a few years, but I know a few things. I don't see why it is Coach Moore's duty as a PE teacher at the high school to teach elementary kids fundamentals that are going to help them. I know that a few years ago, Center Grove's Strength and Conditioning coach also was involved and helped kids learn techniques using a wooden bar as well as light kettlebells. I am assuming the money made goes back into the program, for example to buy conditioning equipment such as cones, hurdles, sleds, etc. Most of the middle school kids who play football do not participate because they are usually involved in more than one sport. I genuinely don't see the issue with what is going on. I think the school would have shut it down right away if there was one. Guess I just am not looking at it the same way you are.

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Bottom line - this is what it takes for CG to compete on a level athletic field with Ben Davis, Warren Central and Carmel.  They are doing what they have to do to keep up with those three monsters.  Without this program, and others, they are Lawrence North or Pike.  

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2 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

Bottom line - this is what it takes for CG to compete on a level athletic field with Ben Davis, Warren Central and Carmel.  They are doing what they have to do to keep up with those three monsters.  Without this program, and others, they are Lawrence North or Pike.  

Not every youth football player is in the program....not close, as many play multiple sports.  And this program is for all athletes, both boys and girls that wish to learn proper technique.  

To say CG couldn't compete without it....C'mon Tommy

 

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1 minute ago, Patch33 said:

Coaches technically get paid to coach their sport from the beginning of the season to the end of the season. There is not contractual obligation to coach a sport outside of the season to gain your stipend. 

 

Any coach worth his salt does stuff year round for his players in any sport, it's an expectation. 

 

8 minutes ago, Patch33 said:

The expertise they are sharing is with kids from all sports not just with football kids grades 1-7. ( I'm not talking about official off season football workouts here). Charge....because our time is worth something even if not much. I think my stipend for football comes out to less the 5 cents an hour.  You all say we should be ok with that because it is the life we chose. Ok. Then you all should be ok with the products on Fridays regardless, because of what you are willing to pay.  Most of you are way over served by the coaches and teachers in your community. 

I often wonder why in every segment of society people get paid for extra hours and doing extra things, but for some reason you all expect teachers and coaches not to get paid to do extra things outside of their contracts. Firemen get paid by the hour, Policemen get paid by the hour.... why not teachers?  Are those professions eating at the public trough. I really wonder how many of you all do parts of your work for free. It's funny, you all think our jobs are easy and we are overpaid... yet teaching is one of the highest stress jobs in our country.  You capitalist should take over, because there is a teacher shortage and the law of supply and demand says that salaries should go up. They aren't.

 

When you say "you all" you must be referencing "High School Teachers and Coaches" because that is what I do for a living. Don't group me in with Driven T, I pay no mind to trolls like him and Muda. I know teachers are underappreciated because I am one, I would love to make more money but that's the nature of the beast. I never expected to gain any additional compensation for what I decided I wanted to do as a career, and I made that commitment when I signed my contract.

That being said, I love my job. I love teaching, I love coaching and I love being a part of kids lives. I like every other teacher have bills, undergrad student loans, grad school tuition and yeah sometimes money is a little tight but again, I love what I do and never want to do anything else. As long as I'm able to make a reasonable living with the salary I'm being paid I refuse to complain about teacher salary issues because I have the best job in the world and I know there are people out there who make the same or less than I do who don't get the time off I do, who don't get to work in heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer, and who don't have a job of as much societal importance. Now if we get into the retirement issues like they're dealing with in Kentucky or something similar that's a different matter, but I'm talking about base teaching salary and coaching stipend compensation.

And as an educator I realize part of my job is that I'm going to spend a lot of time outside of normal business hours grading, dealing with parents, working with kids in the off season, etc. which again I don't mind because I love my job (except the dealing with parents, parents are a pain in the a**). I am paid a teacher's salary and a coaching stipend and when I am paid that there are expectations. Now I could do the bare minimum and get buy, but I like "you all" know that if I do that I'm not living up to the expectation of an educator.

 

18 minutes ago, CGFan2017 said:

I haven't known anyone involved in the program in a few years, but I know a few things. I don't see why it is Coach Moore's duty as a PE teacher at the high school to teach elementary kids fundamentals that are going to help them. I know that a few years ago, Center Grove's Strength and Conditioning coach also was involved and helped kids learn techniques using a wooden bar as well as light kettlebells. I am assuming the money made goes back into the program, for example to buy conditioning equipment such as cones, hurdles, sleds, etc. Most of the middle school kids who play football do not participate because they are usually involved in more than one sport. I genuinely don't see the issue with what is going on. I think the school would have shut it down right away if there was one. Guess I just am not looking at it the same way you are.

 

Guys don't take this as I'm going after Coach Moore and Center Grove, once again I am not Driven T. But the biggest part of coaching high school athletics these days is CYA, and anyone who says it's not is kidding themselves. I'm not angry at Coach Moore for making money by doing a lifting program for middle school and elementary kids, I'll never be upset about someone trying to improve their financial situation. But if you can't see how operating a lifting program that requires parents pay when not every parent in your school district may be able and/or willing to pay for puts the coaches involved in a position to have parents, who could very well be parents that baby their kids, throw accusations at them then you're missing the point. 

And this is especially true when the media gets involved and the story becomes viewed from on a state wide level. It turns the entire thing into a he said, she said situation which would be best avoided by not having programs like the one we're talking about, especially seeing how this is not common practice. Overall the accusations against Coach Moore probably have nothing to do with the lifting program, but when someone reads that article, like the entire state of Indiana is doing, it's going to throw up red flags.

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19 minutes ago, Gamecock Part Deux said:

Guys don't take this as I'm going after Coach Moore and Center Grove, once again I am not Driven T. But the biggest part of coaching high school athletics these days is CYA, and anyone who says it's not is kidding themselves. I'm not angry at Coach Moore for making money by doing a lifting program for middle school and elementary kids, I'll never be upset about someone trying to improve their financial situation. But if you can't see how operating a lifting program that requires parents pay when not every parent in your school district may be able and/or willing to pay for puts the coaches involved in a position to have parents, who could very well be parents that baby their kids, throw accusations at them then you're missing the point. 

And this is especially true when the media gets involved and the story becomes viewed from on a state wide level. It turns the entire thing into a he said, she said situation which would be best avoided by not having programs like the one we're talking about, especially seeing how this is not common practice. Overall the accusations against Coach Moore probably have nothing to do with the lifting program, but when someone reads that article, like the entire state of Indiana is doing, it's going to throw up red flags.

I see what you're saying, but I know for a fact that if Coach Moore knew of any financial issues, he wouldn't charge that family. It is not like he requires people to pay to be in his presence. Go to the CG Bantam Fields on any Saturday during the season and you'll likely see him walking around watching games.

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48 minutes ago, Gamecock Part Deux said:

Guys don't take this as I'm going after Coach Moore and Center Grove, once again I am not Driven T. But the biggest part of coaching high school athletics these days is CYA, and anyone who says it's not is kidding themselves. I'm not angry at Coach Moore for making money by doing a lifting program for middle school and elementary kids, I'll never be upset about someone trying to improve their financial situation. But if you can't see how operating a lifting program that requires parents pay when not every parent in your school district may be able and/or willing to pay for puts the coaches involved in a position to have parents, who could very well be parents that baby their kids, throw accusations at them then you're missing the point. 

And this is especially true when the media gets involved and the story becomes viewed from on a state wide level. It turns the entire thing into a he said, she said situation which would be best avoided by not having programs like the one we're talking about, especially seeing how this is not common practice. Overall the accusations against Coach Moore probably have nothing to do with the lifting program, but when someone reads that article, like the entire state of Indiana is doing, it's going to throw up red flags.

I'm done with the debate.  You are nowhere near to the program, yet you cast judgement.  That's your prerogative.  I don't have the inclination nor the motivation to attempt to persuade you.  At the end of the day, I don't care.  No one in our community is raising an issue about Power Club, and that's what is important.  Its a long standing program that has been reviewed by people over the years as smart as you and I.  It passes the test.  

You copied a couple of links that you found after a search.  Was it an accident or deliberate that you left off the link of the local newspaper article about the program?  Just curious.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, tango said:

That wasn't exactly my point.  I didn't know enough (anything really) about CG's situation or environment to accuse anyone  there of impropriety.  My point(s) were: (1)  it seems fraught with peril; and (2) do other schools/coaches have fee-based programs?  Having learned a little more from other GID CG contributors, I would agree 100% that there is certainly nothing wrong with having a voluntary program to help kids become better athletes, but charging them and using school facilities is something I would discourage our coach from doing (if it were even allowed by school officials).  Our feeder school (middle school grades) can attend our strength program before or after school, which is primarily run by the football program even though athletes in other sports participate.  But there is no charge.  And granted, it is an extra burden on the coaches, who are already woefully underpaid and underappreciated by the people who have no idea how much time they sacrifice (which sadly is the vast majority of the people). 

When you mix money and the use of school facilities, all it takes is one ticked off parent or faculty member.... 

When I was at CP. We did something that sounds similar to this. Don’t know if they still do it. 

Edited by Coach Ellenwood
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42 minutes ago, CGFan2017 said:

I see what you're saying, but I know for a fact that if Coach Moore knew of any financial issues, he wouldn't charge that family. It is not like he requires people to pay to be in his presence. Go to the CG Bantam Fields on any Saturday during the season and you'll likely see him walking around watching games.

Agreed, nothing against Coach Moore, just not a great look.

13 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

I'm done with the debate.  You are nowhere near to the program, yet you cast judgement.  That's your prerogative.  I don't have the inclination nor the motivation to attempt to persuade you.  At the end of the day, I don't care.  No one in our community is raising an issue about Power Club, and that's what is important.  Its a long standing program that has been reviewed by people over the years as smart as you and I.  It passes the test.  

You copied a couple of links that you found after a search.  Was it an accident or deliberate that you left off the link of the local newspaper article about the program?  Just curious.

Take it easy on calling me smart there friend, let's not go too far.

I'll I've been commenting on is how this type of program is uncommon and can give disgruntled parents the ammunition they need whether they're right or wrong, which as you can see from the post above somebody from your side sees where I'm coming from.

I didn't attempt to find a newspaper article btw because the two links I found answered all my questions about the program. As I said before, I'm sure the program was created and is still running because of good intentions. It was never my intent to smear Coach Moore or Center Grove, just to pose some questions and comments about something that isn't common practice.

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6 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

And I will repeat, you are way, way on the outside trying to look in, and you have no idea how it was set up and established years, and years ago, who Coach Moore works with, etc..  You are making assumptions.  Again, lots of pretty smart people have been involved with the set-up and management of this program.

If you wish to educate yourself more about the program, use your favorite search engine. You might even find a newspaper article.

So you don’t answer Tango or anyone else’s question - just imply people smarter than you don’t have a problem with it and google it yourself.

I’ve got no problem with someone being compensated for his time out of season. I think it would be great to teach all elementary school kids proper form and speed drills.

Let’s say I’m a lawyer, accountant, or consultant. I have a pretty good business working out of my house. 

Can I start meeting my clients at the local school library so I can save on lights, utilities, and print documents for free?

That is all that is being asked. 

Where does the money go? Is the cost of inputs free?

 

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On 4/26/2018 at 1:55 PM, DrivenT said:

Too much power centered on certain individuals.  It closes off opportunity for others to advance, and possibly make a difference themselves.  

 

But in other threads you question the older coaches reasons for retiring and if young coaches are capable. Which is it?

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1 hour ago, Peter Simon Veeder said:

But in other threads you question the older coaches reasons for retiring and if young coaches are capable. Which is it?

Probably mistreated in school, either in the classroom or on the field. People with strong opinions on education/athletics seem to rely heavily on personal experience. I had a bad teacher therefore all teachers are bad, lazy, free loaders, etc. 

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37 minutes ago, Blue Racer said:

I had a bad teacher therefore all teachers are bad, lazy, free loaders, etc. 

Scars take a long time to heal over. 

20 hours ago, Patch33 said:

Firemen get paid by the hour, Policemen get paid by the hour.... why not teachers? 

Adult ed teachers in Nevada get paid by the hour in many circumstances, although CCSD still pays salary for Desert Rose and DAE teachers who teach Adult ed during the day. 

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4 hours ago, Peter Simon Veeder said:

But in other threads you question the older coaches reasons for retiring and if young coaches are capable. Which is it?

Its both.  In the case of Munster, Coach Marsh was HC for 36 years.  At many points throughout his tenure, there must have been several long time assistants, highly qualified,  who felt they deserved a shot at the job, just as Coach Marsh was when Coach Friend handed over the reigns in 1979.

On the flip side, we are seeing far too many inexperienced and relatively immature young people stepping in to these positions in the current era.  I believe this is a trend that will continue to grow, as these jobs become less and less attractive.  This current witch hunt at Center Grove could also be a sign of the politically correct times we are in, and a warning to some of what their own personal futures may hold.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2018 at 4:46 PM, Gamecock Part Deux said:

Agreed, nothing against Coach Moore, just not a great look.

Take it easy on calling me smart there friend, let's not go too far.

I'll I've been commenting on is how this type of program is uncommon and can give disgruntled parents the ammunition they need whether they're right or wrong, which as you can see from the post above somebody from your side sees where I'm coming from.

I didn't attempt to find a newspaper article btw because the two links I found answered all my questions about the program. As I said before, I'm sure the program was created and is still running because of good intentions. It was never my intent to smear Coach Moore or Center Grove, just to pose some questions and comments about something that isn't common practice.

I said people as smart as you and I have reviewed this program that is has been in place for years in this community.  If you choose to take that comment to a place never intended, not going to stop you.

The newspaper article is right there with a Google search and talks both about CG and Whiteland's programs.  As you said, why read it when all your questions are answered.  You've made up your mind and its closed.  Thus my comment about no longer debating with you.  You have your opinion...but keep in mind, you don't live in this community....and you have no idea how the relationships to make this program work have been established.  I'm not sure when Power Club was established years ago, that people locally were concerned about making people outside of White River Township feel comfortable with how its managed or to answer their challenges.

Edited by Trojan Dad

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My kids have been involved in swimming and tennis. Most high school swim programs are associated with local club teams. Many times they use the same facilities and coaches. There is a definite cost to being a part of the team in addition to paying for your child to swim in the meets and for parents to attend them. Some high schools swimmers do club and some don't either because they are in another sport or they just prefer to only swim during the high school season. Many tennis coaches also run private lessons in the offseason or serve as pros at local racquet clubs. Those of you saying CG and other schools should offer weight programs like this, are you also saying the swim and tennis coaches shouldn't be able to do what they do? I'm pretty sure the tennis and swim coaches I know doing this stuff in the offseason aren't getting rich. They are just getting some compensation for their time and to help cover whatever expenses they are incurring for their events.

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22 minutes ago, BisonUmpire said:

My kids have been involved in swimming and tennis. Most high school swim programs are associated with local club teams. Many times they use the same facilities and coaches. There is a definite cost to being a part of the team in addition to paying for your child to swim in the meets and for parents to attend them. Some high schools swimmers do club and some don't either because they are in another sport or they just prefer to only swim during the high school season. Many tennis coaches also run private lessons in the offseason or serve as pros at local racquet clubs. Those of you saying CG and other schools should offer weight programs like this, are you also saying the swim and tennis coaches shouldn't be able to do what they do? I'm pretty sure the tennis and swim coaches I know doing this stuff in the offseason aren't getting rich. They are just getting some compensation for their time and to help cover whatever expenses they are incurring for their events.

Haven't said coaches shouldn't do this, just don't think it's very smart. All I wanted to know is where the money was going to. From what I've read and the backlash I got it's apparent at minimum some of the funds are going to coaches, which again I have no problem with if that's how you want to do it. Not sure why some have become so defensive to a simple question which I and a few others feel isn't the norm for a football program.

If swim and tennis coaches do the same of holding off season camps or clubs and make some money then go for it. But when you get accused of preferential treatment of those who paid to be a part of your camp/club by parents of kids who weren't involved don't be shocked. 

It's Pandora's Box of "coach hates my son/daughter"

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I personally do not see anything wrong. 

If i am offering an extra service that is not required, I would expect to be paid as well for my time and expertise in that area. I do understand that all parents financial situations are not the same, so you have a conversation with the coach to see if you can pay in other ways like working youth games, helping set up fields on friday nights etc. 

On the other hand I can see where this could cause some issues as well.  The accusation of preferential treatment can be viewed from a variety of ways. If a kid has been in the weightlifting camp and I see him on the regular, yes I will know his name and will gravitate towards him or her some because I have seen then a lot. 

I am curious as well about where the money goes to. This could be part of his Fundraising efforts for his program. If you're not in his program it does leave you wondering. 

I know coach is a great man and I have spoken to a lot of players.  Hope everything works out, but you never know. 

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On 4/27/2018 at 12:08 PM, coachfields said:

As a capitalists, can you explain why there are massive teacher shortages in various areas across the United States and a decline in  undergraduate students entering the education field? My assumption would be if teachers were completely over-compensated that a surplus of educators would exist. 

There are definitely educators that take advantage of the system. Also, some that contribute far beyond their compensation. But doesn't this exist in all labor markets?

 

On 4/27/2018 at 12:14 PM, DrivenT said:

Good questions. I'll respond later when I am back at my obsolete desktop computer. Currently using my obsolete BlackBerry. I'm a tech contrarian as you might gather

Image result for eating popcorn

  • Haha 2

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