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Muda69

Children who play football before age 12 show CTE-related symptoms much sooner

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Mission Accomplished.      

 

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5 hours ago, Muda69 said:

And the childish comments are coming out to play.   Just proof that the neanderthals have no more real arguments, and are comfortable with letting children bash each others brains out on the football field.  All in the name of "gridiron glory" and parental pride of course.

 

Maybe the dumbest comment I’ve ever read on here. I’m more worried about my kid driving than getting head bashed in on football field. 

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2 hours ago, Gamecock Part Deux said:

Gotta end the week on a high note.

Apologizes. Not directed at you. Poor delivery on my part.

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12 minutes ago, WhoDat said:

Wonder what study’s of kids before age 12 sitting on iPad, iPhone, and video games will do to their brains. 

I can tell you my son is a "tech" kid.  He just does not enjoy athletics as much as I did and that is absolutely AWESOME w/ me.

His life, not mine.

I encourage, educate, support, etc., but I will NEVER live vicariously through him!

13 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Mission Accomplished.      

 

What mission has been accomplished?

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13 minutes ago, Coach Ellenwood said:

I can tell you my son is a "tech" kid.  He just does not enjoy athletics as much as I did and that is absolutely AWESOME w/ me.

His life, not mine.

I encourage, educate, support, etc., but I will NEVER live vicariously through him!

Hopefully they will find something their passionate about and chase it. 

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2 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Hopefully they will find something their passionate about and chase it. 

Isn't that the truth.  And tech is his.  He really is a whiz.

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Posted (edited)

I have a close friend who has a 16 year old son who has played football since he was 8 years old

The boy has college scholarship written all over him. He projects to 6-3, 250 as a senior, maybe bigger. Offensive lineman. 

He now attends Catholic high school and played as a frosh, but sat out his sophomore year

Now he has decided to quit football completely, as all his free time is consumed by video games

It disgusts me, no, it saddens me, mostly because of the potential for a free college education that he is walking away from

And for what?  Video games?  Really?   I just don't get it people. 

Edited by DrivenT

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5 hours ago, WhoDat said:

Maybe the dumbest comment I’ve ever read on here. I’m more worried about my kid driving than getting head bashed in on football field. 

For your glory.

 

50 minutes ago, DrivenT said:

I have a close friend who has a 16 year old son who has played football since he was 8 years old

 

There is the primary culprit.

 

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1 hour ago, DrivenT said:

 I just don't get it people. 

We know

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1 hour ago, DrivenT said:

I have a close friend who has a 16 year old son who has played football since he was 8 years old

The boy has college scholarship written all over him. He projects to 6-3, 250 as a senior, maybe bigger. Offensive lineman. 

He now attends Catholic high school and played as a frosh, but sat out his sophomore year

Now he has decided to quit football completely, as all his free time is consumed by video games

It disgusts me, no, it saddens me, mostly because of the potential for a free college education that he is walking away from

And for what?  Video games?  Really?   I just don't get it people. 

His life. His choice. Good for him.  Best wishes young man. 

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23 hours ago, Butter Bean said:

Since no numbers were quoted in the sample, I expect it was a very small number.  Too small for a scientific conclusion.

Did any of those kids ride skate boards?  Head soccer balls?  Fall down stairs?   

Have always been surprised during football season by the number of kids that end up missing games based on injury/illness not related to the sport.  Have lost more kids to injuries at school and home than the field.  Most unique one that I recall was a kid playing Frisbee with his brother with a paint can lid ... sliced his forehead open and couldn't wear a helmet until the stitches healed.  Had another one that didn't result in the kid not being able to play, but one day a kid came to practice with bruises that we know didn't come from practice.  We asked him what happened and he said his older brother had his girlfriend over and the little brother was hiding under the table while they were making out.  His older brother caught him. 

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9 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

From the Study:

Quote

 Wisconsin Longitudinal Study among men graduating high school in Wisconsin in 1957,

I thought youth in this era were generally bigger, stronger, and faster then youth from 60 years ago?  And due to the advances in helmet technology many players believe they are more free from harm.  Not so for youth in 1957.

Bottom line:  Football is dangerous, and can adversely affect your children later in life after they have grown into adults.  Is the risk worth it for a few weeks/months of competition and "gridiron glory"  IHMO,  No it no longer is.    But the rest of you can go ahead and make your own judgement on how you want to physically harm your children.

Also linked to on that site:  https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/article-abstract/2635828?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2635831&redirect=true

Quote

Reassuring News About Football and Cognitive Decline?Not So Fast

t is increasingly recognized that moderate to severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) (typically defined as loss of consciousness for >30 minutes1) increases the risk for dementia in older adulthood,2 a conclusion based primarily on epidemiologic research. Whether mild TBI, also called concussion, is associated with increased risk of dementia is less clear, especially because fewer prospective studies have focused on mild TBI.3 This is an important gap in the field, especially because concussion is relatively common, among both the general population and certain groups such as athletes and military service members.4 In recent years, concerns about potential for long-term negative consequences from concussion and even from subconcussive injuries have greatly intensified with the discovery of a distinct neuropathologic finding at autopsy among former US football players, other athletes, and military veterans exposed to repeated mild head injuries.5 This postmortem neuropathologic finding, which includes discovery of hyperphosphorylated τ in a characteristic cortical distribution, is now known as chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).5 Although the clinical symptoms associated with CTE remain unclear, reports of deaths, including suicides of high-profile professional athletes later found to have CTE, have raised alarm about this condition and heightened fears about the potential risks of playing football and other contact sports.

Not worth the risk.  Not for a game.

 

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4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

From the Study:

I thought youth in this era were generally bigger, stronger, and faster then youth from 60 years ago?  And due to the advances in helmet technology many players believe they are more free from harm.  Not so for youth in 1957.

Bottom line:  Football is dangerous, and can adversely affect your children later in life after they have grown into adults.  Is the risk worth it for a few weeks/months of competition and "gridiron glory"  IHMO,  No it no longer is.    But the rest of you can go ahead and make your own judgement on how you want to physically harm your children.

Also linked to on that site:  https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/article-abstract/2635828?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2635831&redirect=true

Not worth the risk.  Not for a game.

 

To be fair, Muda, you’re looking only at one side of the equation. You’ve provided information on the long term historical risks, but haven’t made (to my recollection) any attempt to assess the benefits of playing the game — and they are considerable. All of life is basically a risk/benefit analysis. In the last 10 yrs. or so a lot more information has surfaced to help people evaluate the risks. But that doesn’t mean the benefits are any less real.

Moreover, if you want to get really detailed about it, any risk/benefit analysis should use not the absolute risk presented by the game, but rather, the “marginal” risk, i.e., the degree of risk by which football exceeds whatever activity you might undertake in place of football. For example, if you won’t let your son play football, but instead he spends his time skateboarding ... well, that’s not a risk-free activity, either. 

Another point that is often overlooked in this debate is that we’re not talking about the risk level from when you or I played, years ago, i.e., the “historical” risk. We’re talking about the risk going forward. Rule changes, coaching education, better equipment, development of different techniques, limitations on contact in practices, all of these things combine to make the game safer than it has ever been. Yet, the benefits remain relatively constant.

Of course, at bottom, it is - and has to be - an individual choice. But for those of us who love the game - and I know you do - it’s important that all of the relevant factors be considered when making that choice. It’s illogical to make a decision based only on the historical risks, without examining either the benefits or the actual risk as it exists today.

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

From the Study:

I thought youth in this era were generally bigger, stronger, and faster then youth from 60 years ago?  And due to the advances in helmet technology many players believe they are more free from harm.  Not so for youth in 1957.

Bottom line:  Football is dangerous, and can adversely affect your children later in life after they have grown into adults.  Is the risk worth it for a few weeks/months of competition and "gridiron glory"  IHMO,  No it no longer is.    But the rest of you can go ahead and make your own judgement on how you want to physically harm your children.

Also linked to on that site:  https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/article-abstract/2635828?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2635831&redirect=true

Not worth the risk.  Not for a game.

 

Significantly higher risk of serious injury and fatality from driving a  car and especially in combination with a mobile communication device.  Have you stopped your children from driving and riding in vehicles?  Have you taken away their mobile devices?

Drugs, especially opioids/narcotics will take in orders of magnitude more lives than a sport.  Yet you have been on this forum time and time again yelling for drugs to be legalized, because its fits your libertarian freedom of choice.

There are tons of data to support the risks I mention above...do you decide with or against that data?

So what's your issue now with freedom of choice?  Seems to me to assign risk based on your own personal values......

different perspectives

https://www.sadlersports.com/blog/youth-football-endorsed-concussion-doctor/

http://www.startribune.com/despite-rising-concerns-over-concussions-this-doctor-prescribes-football/391551251/

https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20151026/safe-tackling-ok-in-youth-football-pediatricians-group-says#1

 

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"Children who play football before age 12 show CTE-related symptoms much sooner"

Who would've thunk it? That's like saying people that don't eat healthy before age 12 show symptoms of obesity much sooner.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, bobref said:

To be fair, Muda, you’re looking only at one side of the equation. You’ve provided information on the long term historical risks, but haven’t made (to my recollection) any attempt to assess the benefits of playing the game — and they are considerable.

And there are other activities/programs that provide many of the same "considerable" benefits, and even more.  And you don't run any considerable risk of concussions, and CTE later in life.

Again, not worth the risk to a child.  Not for a game.

Quote

Of course, at bottom, it is - and has to be - an individual choice. 

Is it really, Bob?  When a 8,9,10, etc. year old is subtlety, and sometimes not so subtlety, pressured by the parents and adults to play and to put themselves in harm's way?    

20 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

Drugs, especially opioids/narcotics will take in orders of magnitude more lives than a sport.  Yet you have been on this forum time and time again yelling for drugs to be legalized, because its fits your libertarian freedom of choice.

 

So tell me TD, where I have I advocated for drug use by those less than 18 years of age?  Nice try.

Edited by Muda69
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Posted (edited)

Anytime there is controversy or conspiracy, just follow the money. Football and concussions are related because that’s where the money is and the argument is an easy sell. Football is under siege because our country is getting weak. The “I don’t want to play football because I don’t want to get a concussion” excuse gives lazy, pu$$ified kids an easy out. And whats worse? The parents who sit idly by and let it happen. 

Video games don’t cause concussions, just carpal tunnel syndrome and obesity. Video games are the perfect activity for today’s mindset; I can be whomever and whatever I want. If I don’t like it I can either hit reset or change games. No adversity, no judgement, no struggle, no hassle...perfect world. 

Considering the alarmingly high rates of childhood obesity, most kids will grow up and die from heart disease or diabetic complications long before CTE. 

Edited by 8mpg
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28 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

And there are other activities/programs that provide many of the same "considerable" benefits, and even more.  And you don't run any considerable risk of concussions, and CTE later in life.

There may be. Why don’t you provide some examples? I would be willing to bet they have some risks associated with them, too.

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10 hours ago, Muda69 said:

And there are other activities/programs that provide many of the same "considerable" benefits, and even more.  And you don't run any considerable risk of concussions, and CTE later in life.

Again, not worth the risk to a child.  Not for a game.

Is it really, Bob?  When a 8,9,10, etc. year old is subtlety, and sometimes not so subtlety, pressured by the parents and adults to play and to put themselves in harm's way?    

So tell me TD, where I have I advocated for drug use by those less than 18 years of age?  Nice try.

You have advocated for legal, unrestricted use of drugs for a long time....you've never stipulated age of unrestricted use (that I can remember), but that isn't the point here.  In both cases, adults are making the decision...whether to use drugs or to allow their children to play youth football.  They assess risk and decide...as you say, it's called freedom.

What you didn't address is that parents make choices about youth driving a vehicle, well before the age of 18. Or even younger, parents allow their children to ride in cars driven by other youth drivers.  The potential for them to be hurt is orders of magnitude greater (probability and severity) in a car than it is playing youth football.  So, have or did you prevent your children from either driving or riding in automobiles?  If not, why is a much greater risk acceptable to you, than a far less risk?  Just trying to understand your logic when it comes to risk assessment and risk tolerance.

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Coming from a small town that used to be fairly dominant in athletics I can clearly say that starting kids in football in kindergarten or 1st grade has absolutely killed participation in middle and high school. Numbers are down all over the state and kids are burned out before they get to high school. I have coached in different youth leagues and different sports in middle school and high school, and looking back now I wouldn't endorse youth football again. I've seen young kids turned away and not allowed to play because they are too big, some of these kids end up being studs but never play again because of crap like that. Parents and bad  coaches also ruin  the  experience. Basically I'm saying since Pop Warner has arrived in our community I have seen no positive trickle over to the high school level and in fact it just the opposite. We had to wait until 6th grade to ever play football and our numbers were always good. Football used to be so special to us because we had to wait to be apart of it and it was a privilege. What kills me  Is that I see high school kids who have played since 1st grade still have technique issues and mental errors that we would of corrected in year one. I know this is suppose to be about brain trauma so sorry I got off track (MUST BE THE CTE KICKING IN)

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4 hours ago, bigjay said:

Coming from a small town that used to be fairly dominant in athletics I can clearly say that starting kids in football in kindergarten or 1st grade has absolutely killed participation in middle and high school. Numbers are down all over the state and kids are burned out before they get to high school. I have coached in different youth leagues and different sports in middle school and high school, and looking back now I wouldn't endorse youth football again. I've seen young kids turned away and not allowed to play because they are too big, some of these kids end up being studs but never play again because of crap like that. Parents and bad  coaches also ruin  the  experience. Basically I'm saying since Pop Warner has arrived in our community I have seen no positive trickle over to the high school level and in fact it just the opposite. We had to wait until 6th grade to ever play football and our numbers were always good. Football used to be so special to us because we had to wait to be apart of it and it was a privilege. What kills me  Is that I see high school kids who have played since 1st grade still have technique issues and mental errors that we would of corrected in year one. I know this is suppose to be about brain trauma so sorry I got off track (MUST BE THE CTE KICKING IN)

Agree w so much of this. 

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On 5/6/2018 at 7:55 AM, bobref said:

There may be. Why don’t you provide some examples? I would be willing to bet they have some risks associated with them, too.

Boy Scouts of America for one.  Last I checked scouting was a non-contact activity.  Is there a risk with canoeing, climbing,  shooting, etc.?  Yes there is.  But is the risk something that can come back and affect the child 20, 30, 40 years after they age out of the program?   

14 hours ago, Trojan Dad said:

 So, have or did you prevent your children from either driving or riding in automobiles?  

Yes, I have.   Have you?

 

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5 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, I have.   Have you?

If I could have only been half the parent you are! I'm not sure how my kids survived?

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Just now, Impartial_Observer said:

If I could have only been half the parent you are! I'm not sure how my kids survived?

So you let your child get in the back seat of a vehicle driven by an obviously intoxicated individual?  Was that individual you?

 

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