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      HEAD COACH OPENING 2018   10/29/2017

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4 Indy-area Catholic schools form new sports conference

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The Pussification of America is in full effect on the north side of Indy as well. . .

So a child not wanting to play football, or parents not wanting their child to play football, makes them "p*ssies". Gotcha.

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OLMC and SLDM have historically had very strong CYO programs, sometimes fielding multiple teams. 

OLMC sends a lot of kids to Guerin, but Brebeuf, Chatard and Cathedral are close and plenty of families chose one of those instead.

 

 

Attended Mass at OLMC over the summer while in Noblesville for a baseball tourney.  That's a good-sized church and it was packed.  Their school numbers look like they have around 75 kids per grade level, so that's pretty modest in terms of eligible kids; especially if you figure about half are boys and about a 1/3 will come out, that's about 11-12 kids per class.  That's great that they are able to field multiple teams out there.  I would guess that the Carmel public youth programs are pretty good and abundant, so my guess is that their CYO football program probably tends to be limited to the kids in the parish school.

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No standalone cadet team for Luke and Pius either - 2 of the 4 largest CYO schools are combining as well. It is a major systemic problem and an epidemic in my mind. I am literally going to houses and having living room chats begging kids to play 56 ball. The Pussification of America is in full effect on the north side of Indy as well. . .

Could you clarify that a bit? Are you saying Luke and Pius are combining for a Cadet team? If not, who is combining?

BTW, what are the parents giving as reasons that their kids aren't playing?

I'm a little stunned hearing this about both the North and South side.

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Could you clarify that a bit? Are you saying Luke and Pius are combining for a Cadet team? If not, who is combining?

BTW, what are the parents giving as reasons that their kids aren't playing?

I'm a little stunned hearing this about both the North and South side.

I have 3 sons who played CYO football. My youngest is in his last year at St. Matt's and is playing football now. Since the time my oldest competed middle school (2011) and this year, the number of eligible boys has not decreased, yet the football team is half of the size that is was.

 

I think that this is in direct relation to the increase of other available fall sports for the boys to play. Many of my 8th grader's classmates have opted to continue with baseball, soccer, or basketball rather than join the football team this year.

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Change the names and you are having a conversation about the Greater Catholic League - South, or as most fans know it, the vaunted GCL in Cincinnati.

 

Moeller

Elder

St. Xavier

LaSalle

 

It is hysterical.  Cathedral is the St. Xavier of Indiana.  No rules, no restrictions, no limits on who they recruit or how they get them.  Is it any wonder they are as dominant as they are?

 

Good luck, with all that...

 

-CardinalsFan

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So a child not wanting to play football, or parents not wanting their child to play football, makes them "p*ssies". Gotcha.

Muuuuuuuudddddaaaaa! How have you been my socialist friend!?!? Since Cathedral bumped to 6A and all the hegemonic P/Ps have had to bump, it's been crickets from you. Too bad 5A is void a P/P threat or the imperialistic privates might take the Top 5 classes. That would really screwww you up.

You're too wise to write a question like the above. We both know that contact sports like football and wrestling are more grueling than boy's volleyball. However, it is surging on the north side. Is it a contact thing or a work ethic thing? I prescribe to the latter. There is no coincidence as this country continues to socialize and entitlements flow like apples on a federal subsidy tree that people will work less hard, expect something for nothing, and not push little Johnny to his maximum physical limit because "it's hard". It is everywhere. Not just the Northside.

Muuuuuuuuudddaaa - don't worry though. My Irish will still find the diamonds in the rough out there to continue on w the hegemony.

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How have you been my socialist friend!?!?

lol. Socialist.

So a sport has to be 'more grueling' to have any benefit to the individual participating in it?

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Change the names and you are having a conversation about the Greater Catholic League - South, or as most fans know it, the vaunted GCL in Cincinnati.

 

Moeller

Elder

St. Xavier

LaSalle

 

It is hysterical.  Cathedral is the St. Xavier of Indiana.  No rules, no restrictions, no limits on who they recruit or how they get them.  Is it any wonder they are as dominant as they are?

 

Good luck, with all that...

 

-CardinalsFan

:lol:   Tell that to Bobby Cox! ;)

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South deanery are having same problem with numbers. I heard Nativity and St. Jude are only Cadet teams that did not have to combine teams.

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lol. Socialist.

So a sport has to be 'more grueling' to have any benefit to the individual participating in it?

 

Correct. The tougher the sport, the bigger the life lesson. These youngsters need to endure as much challenge as they can while they are young, so they can kick life in the arse when they are on their own. 

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CYO said last night we are only down 4 registered teams from last year. They said it was primarily 34 teams, which isn't a great sign. However, the USA Football rep that was there said in the last two years, football participation in the country has gone from 3mm young men to 2.6mm young men. The US had been at or above 3mm football participants "for several years" before the last two.

 

CYO won't know numbers until the weigh-in on August 22nd, but I suspect we are off by at least another 10% again this year. Maybe it is sport specialization at younger ages. Maybe it is the concussion press frenzy. Or, maybe it is the pussification of America. Whatever the case, it looks to be a growing systemic issue that USA Football needs to attack more than they are. 

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CYO said last night we are only down 4 registered teams from last year. They said it was primarily 34 teams, which isn't a great sign. However, the USA Football rep that was there said in the last two years, football participation in the country has gone from 3mm young men to 2.6mm young men. The US had been at or above 3mm football participants "for several years" before the last two.

CYO won't know numbers until the weigh-in on August 22nd, but I suspect we are off by at least another 10% again this year. Maybe it is sport specialization at younger ages. Maybe it is the concussion press frenzy. Or, maybe it is the pussification of America. Whatever the case, it looks to be a growing systemic issue that USA Football needs to attack more than they are.

I either read or listened to a report that indicated, surprisingly, the numbers have declined in recent years in not just football but ALL youth sports. The reporter, in doing the report primarily about football, was surprised to find there have been serious declines everywhere.

Only two sports have shown growth during this period: lacrosse and hockey.

Both of these are helmeted sports where there can be varying degrees of hard contact - which makes me wonder if it's more than just concussion worries at play.

The reporter went on to interview a lot of youth coaches. There seemed to be a concensus that the biggest problem had to do with what I will refer to as "Effort/Reward" in the minds of the kids. They wanted to be on a team that wins. If they couldn't, it wasn't worth the effort. The Coaches kept saying that the kids got frustrated because they could not hit the "reset" button. This phrase was heard over and over again.

No doubt concussion worries are at play but I really wonder if the biggest enemy of youth sports isn't electronic gaming.

Edit - All that said, I have seen a tendency over the last few years I was around CYO to ignore the minimum one quarter of play for all kids. I used to keep a chart to make sure everyone got at least one quarter. I have heard of some kids walking away from the game because of this in recent years.

Edited by Lysander

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The numbers for Lacrosse and Rugby keep going up every year.  Hockey cost keeps their numbers stable.  Ice time, ridiculous!

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OLMC has kids playing CYO football that are in the parish but go to Carmel schools at the cadet level.

 

I can confirm that St. Luke and St. Pius X are combining for cadet. That should make it a very good team.

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The reporter went on to interview a lot of youth coaches. There seemed to be a concensus that the biggest problem had to do with what I will refer to as "Effort/Reward" in the minds of the kids. They wanted to be on a team that wins. If they couldn't, it wasn't worth the effort. The Coaches kept saying that the kids got frustrated because they could not hit the "reset" button. This phrase was heard over and over again.

No doubt concussion worries are at play but I really wonder if the biggest enemy of youth sports isn't electronic gaming.

Edit - All that said, I have seen a tendency over the last few years I was around CYO to ignore the minimum one quarter of play for all kids. I used to keep a chart to make sure everyone got at least one quarter. I have heard of some kids walking away from the game because of this in recent years.

 

Had an incident with my son yesterday where we were talking on the way home from football practice about his tryout this coming Sunday for the 10U travel baseball team ... it's travel in name only as we had one tourney in Noblesville and other than that, our longest trip was to the east side of Lafayette to play the Harrison squad.  He caught me off guard with a statement, "If I don't make the 10U team, then I probably won't play any baseball this year."  I was kind of shocked because he's a kid that doesn't give up and fights back against adversity.  We had already had a discussion about his disappointment in not carrying the ball this season in football, but he had overcome that and is progressing nicely in his new role as a lineman.  As we talked, and I couldn't get him to specifically say it, but I think he felt that if he didn't make that team, that somehow it was an indication that he couldn't play or really wasn't good enough any more.  Now mind you, he played on the 9U squad this past season and was a very solid player playing every position in the infield save first base and also pitched.  He's a good batter and a very coachable kid.  We talked more last night at dinner and we discussed that not making the cut, especially at his age for a single team that only has 12 slots for the whole city, isn't an indication of worth.  We also discussed that there were also options in rec leagues, etc.  We finished up with me asking him, "Do you really like to play baseball?" to which he replied that he liked it a lot.  I told him that he should always look for ways to do the kinds of things that he wants to do even if his first choice/option isn't available.  

 

Along with that reset button that you are talking about, I wonder how many kids might be giving in to the notion that a setback is actually a finality.  When I played ball, just because you didn't get selected as pitcher this year, didn't mean that you couldn't go home and practice and maybe pitch next year or maybe even at the end of the season if you worked hard enough. I've seen in some kids, and unfortunately more in parents, the idea that if Johnny doesn't get to play *fill in the blank* right now, that his/their interest in the sport is done or they are going to go "shop" their talent out to another team.  Retention rates in younger sports seem to be much smaller than when I was a youngster.  We see retention rates in youth football, at the 3rd grade level, of usually 75% or so with a quarter going to do something else or just outright quitting.  This is mainly anecdotal, by I wonder if there are actually some numbers to whether there's a shift in how long a kid will "stick out" a sport regardless of whether the issue is desired position, effort vs. perceived return, lure of other sports, etc.  

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Had an incident with my son yesterday where we were talking on the way home from football practice about his tryout this coming Sunday for the 10U travel baseball team ... it's travel in name only as we had one tourney in Noblesville and other than that, our longest trip was to the east side of Lafayette to play the Harrison squad. He caught me off guard with a statement, "If I don't make the 10U team, then I probably won't play any baseball this year." I was kind of shocked because he's a kid that doesn't give up and fights back against adversity. We had already had a discussion about his disappointment in not carrying the ball this season in football, but he had overcome that and is progressing nicely in his new role as a lineman. As we talked, and I couldn't get him to specifically say it, but I think he felt that if he didn't make that team, that somehow it was an indication that he couldn't play or really wasn't good enough any more. Now mind you, he played on the 9U squad this past season and was a very solid player playing every position in the infield save first base and also pitched. He's a good batter and a very coachable kid. We talked more last night at dinner and we discussed that not making the cut, especially at his age for a single team that only has 12 slots for the whole city, isn't an indication of worth. We also discussed that there were also options in rec leagues, etc. We finished up with me asking him, "Do you really like to play baseball?" to which he replied that he liked it a lot. I told him that he should always look for ways to do the kinds of things that he wants to do even if his first choice/option isn't available.

Along with that reset button that you are talking about, I wonder how many kids might be giving in to the notion that a setback is actually a finality. When I played ball, just because you didn't get selected as pitcher this year, didn't mean that you couldn't go home and practice and maybe pitch next year or maybe even at the end of the season if you worked hard enough. I've seen in some kids, and unfortunately more in parents, the idea that if Johnny doesn't get to play *fill in the blank* right now, that his/their interest in the sport is done or they are going to go "shop" their talent out to another team. Retention rates in younger sports seem to be much smaller than when I was a youngster. We see retention rates in youth football, at the 3rd grade level, of usually 75% or so with a quarter going to do something else or just outright quitting. This is mainly anecdotal, by I wonder if there are actually some numbers to whether there's a shift in how long a kid will "stick out" a sport regardless of whether the issue is desired position, effort vs. perceived return, lure of other sports, etc.

I wonder how travel teams affect numbers? Seems like we're in a day of age now where youngsters are committing to one sport and playing it year round. I helped coach a travel baseball team two summers ago and tryouts for that team were held the previous fall. They had Saturday and Sunday doubleheaders up until November, weather permitting, and were at the batting cages for instruction and drills 2-3x a week throughout the winter. It was crazy and these kids were 12 years old. Just have a feeling kids are latching on to one sport rather than playing all of them.

And I agree with Irish Momma. Rugby and lacrosse especially have really grown in the last 10 years.

Edited by Footballking16

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Retention rates in younger sports seem to be much smaller than when I was a youngster.  We see retention rates in youth football, at the 3rd grade level, of usually 75% or so with a quarter going to do something else or just outright quitting.  This is mainly anecdotal, by I wonder if there are actually some numbers to whether there's a shift in how long a kid will "stick out" a sport regardless of whether the issue is desired position, effort vs. perceived return, lure of other sports, etc.  

 

I think your experience with your son and baseball is right on the mark.  I've had the same experience with my younger son.  In my opinion, this illustrates a disturbing trend: the overvaluing of the most competitive level of a sport, and a drop in participation in lower levels.  If kids don't have an opportunity to play at the most competitive level (travel, AAU, whatever) for their age group/sport, there is a lack of interest playing at a lower level just for the sake of playing.

 

I got the same feeling with my older son this spring at dozens of football showcases/combines/1-day camps.  Standing in the crowd of parents and eavesdropping was very depressing.  The overwhelming majority were of the opinion that if their son wasn't offered by a D1 FBS/FCS school, they had no interest in playing at all.  I overheard two conversations at one combine in which the parent stated that their son would rather make an FBS/FCS roster, and never get on the field, than to play for a D2 school.  It doesn't help that there are apparel startups selling the "D1Bound" culture.  At a 7v7 event at Youngstown St., they were selling D1Bound apparel with the slogan that "D1Bound is a state of mind, not a destination".  Unfortunately, it's a state of mind that leads kids to believe that it's not worth playing at any other level.

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I wonder how travel teams affect numbers? Seems like we're in a day of age now where youngsters are committing to one sport and playing it year round. I helped coach a travel baseball team two summers ago and tryouts for that team were held the previous fall. They had Saturday and Sunday doubleheaders up until November, weather permitting, and were at the batting cages for instruction and drills 2-3x a week throughout the winter. It was crazy and these kids were 12 years old. Just have a feeling kids are latching on to one sport rather than playing all of them.

And I agree with Irish Momma. Rugby and lacrosse especially have really grown in the last 10 years.

 

My son was talking about playing baseball year-round when he made the 9U travel team, but I told him that wasn't happening. Explained to him that, at his age, he needs a mix of things to 1) get a full appreciation for different sports/activities and 2) to help his body develop correctly and reduce the chances for future issues with bones, muscles, tendons.  He enjoys playing several sports including baseball, basketball, football, and soccer.  He also does hip-hop and break dancing classes and actually has a couple of years of classical ballet training under his belt.  I keep reminding him that he's 9 and he'll have PLENTY of time to figure out what he's really good at and what's the most gratifying for him in the long run.  

 

I hear you on the travel stuff.  Luckily for us, and one of the main reasons that I was convinced to let him play, is that the team that he played for wasn't a hardcore travel.  They played in the gym in January to get their skills component since there's such a jump in skills from machine-pitch to live-arm, but he didn't really start outdoor practice until April and games started in May.  We also ended in mid-July, so I saw that as fairly reasonable compared to the stories that I had heard about travel ball.  From the team of 12 kids on my son's team, the good news is that I think three or four of them are playing fall baseball, but the rest are playing football, so at least it's not the vast majority specializing ... nonetheless, when I played baseball, when the season was done, everyone moved over to play football, so I guess while I now see 1/3 of kids playing fall ball as the norm nowadays, I guess it's a dramatic departure from where things used to be.

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I think your experience with your son and baseball is right on the mark.  I've had the same experience with my younger son.  In my opinion, this illustrates a disturbing trend: the overvaluing of the most competitive level of a sport, and a drop in participation in lower levels.  If kids don't have an opportunity to play at the most competitive level (travel, AAU, whatever) for their age group/sport, there is a lack of interest playing at a lower level just for the sake of playing.

 

I got the same feeling with my older son this spring at dozens of football showcases/combines/1-day camps.  Standing in the crowd of parents and eavesdropping was very depressing.  The overwhelming majority were of the opinion that if their son wasn't offered by a D1 FBS/FCS school, they had no interest in playing at all.  I overheard two conversations at one combine in which the parent stated that their son would rather make an FBS/FCS roster, and never get on the field, than to play for a D2 school.  It doesn't help that there are apparel startups selling the "D1Bound" culture.  At a 7v7 event at Youngstown St., they were selling D1Bound apparel with the slogan that "D1Bound is a state of mind, not a destination".  Unfortunately, it's a state of mind that leads kids to believe that it's not worth playing at any other level.

 

Heard similar and, like you, got that depressed feeling hearing it.  Sometimes parents can be more of an impediment to their kids than outside factors.

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Before completely derailing the discussion, I'm curious if anyone knows whether the drop in CYO football participation has let to an increase in other CYO sports?  If the drop in football numbers is due to specialization, has interest in CYO basketball or wrestling seen an increase?  Or is CYO viewed more as a "rec league", and those who choose to specialize are doing it with AAU/club teams outside of school?

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 Or is CYO viewed more as a "rec league", and those who choose to specialize are doing it with AAU/club teams outside of school?

 

Other than CYO offers the best football program in the city in my opinion, you nailed for all other sports. 

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I wish Scecina would look at this league. I know it was talked about, but I don't believe our athletic program as a whole could hang in with those bigger schools. We are a big 1A/small 2A. The non revenue sports at Brebeuf, Guerin, Chatard and Roncalli are very good. I believe in certain sports us and Ritter would be able to hang. In a dream world we add Ritter, Scecina, Heritage Christian and Park Tudor. Boom 8 teams.

 

I have to say I am very happy with the ICC though, it has served the Crusaders well.

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From my limited experience, kids play CYO football or they don't play football if they are going to Roncalli. We have a few kids in the parish that play in the township league. These are kids that are going to Franklin Central. There is a travel team in the area, but this is also in the FC system.

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What I tried to say in previous post is that most don't consider CYO a rec league. CYO is where you play if you want to play at one of the Catholic HS.

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This is one of my favorite articles and seems like the right topic. The fact of the matter is we are in the midst of multi-generational top grading. D1 athletes are marrying D1 athletes. NFL ex-pats are marrying WNBA players and procreating. The number of D1 schools and professional sports teams are not increasing. 

 

If you or your wife were not D1 athletes, the chance that little Johnny will become one is extremely small. If you and your wife were D1 athletes, your kid might have a chance at playing D1 ball, but there are no certainties. I love all the parents that think that their gene pool combined with hours of sports travel and commitment will make Little Johnny the D1 athlete or the eventual pro somewhere. We have to give these kids the opportunity to excel, but we have to keep our expectations in check. 

 

http://m.nuvo.net/GuestVoices/archives/2014/03/18/your-kid-and-my-kid-are-not-playing-in-the-pros 

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