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“Recruiting is real in high school."


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Just now, Coach Nowlin said:

You forgot the "C".  RCHS, but I digress

Just because I truly do like you, here you go. 

Muda69, as a champion of School Choice, you must understand that School Choice is not just about Academics.  School Choice is about the entire school community.  Examples of this include, but not limited to:  Academic success/reputation, School Culture, Safety, and yes, EXTRA CURRICULAR Activites, such as Sports, FFA, Robotics, et. al.   As someone who has advocated for School Choice, you cannot be naive to the fact that some families will utilize school choice for their child's athletic endeavors, good or bad, but that is part of the process as well, or as some may think, an unintended consequence of school choice.   

Cheers

Thank you for that revision.  It was greatly appreciated. And give a thanks to Mrs. Gillenwater as well.

In response, of course I realize families want to utilize school choice for the child's athletic endeavors.   But does the IHSAA accept "because Johnny was told by the head coach he could be the starting QB this season"  as the truthful Reason for Transfer on the IHSAA Transfer Report? I've always been told the answer is "no".

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BTF said:

I bet South Side goes 5-0 against the Indy publics. I'm not saying recruiting doesn't occur in Fort Wayne, because it absolutely does. But there's more of a balance in Fort Wayne from the bottom to the top. There is zero balance in Indy. Either your top ten in the state or you're bottom ten. There doesn't seem to be an in between like there is in Fort Wayne. How did Indy Lutheran become so good so fast? Just a bunch of good ol Lutheran boys working hard? I'm not so sure. 

There are no Indianapolis Public Schools IPS that are anywhere close to being Top Ten in the State. 

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1 minute ago, FastpacedO said:

There are no Indianapolis Public Schools IPS that are anywhere close to being Top Ten in the State. 

I'm referring to the outside district where IPS athletes are more than likely going. Schools close in proximity like Ben Davis and Warren Central. Maybe the reason IPS schools are among the state's worse has something to do with Lutheran and maybe some other Indy PP's. 

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1 hour ago, hhpatriot04 said:

What's the going rate for a fourth grader currently in the Castle system, below average size and speed, theatre and chorus skills? She's undecided with a 4.0 GPA and has had unofficial visits to Memorial, Castle, North and Gibson. Heritage Hills and British (father's side) pedigree without a drop of Roman Church blood in her though...

She is perfect for a P/P state championship in soccer.  Three Hail Mary's and Our Father's a day coupled with superior Catholic work ethic and coaching will get her there in no time!

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9 minutes ago, BTF said:

I bet South Side goes 5-0 against the Indy publics. I'm not saying recruiting doesn't occur in Fort Wayne, because it absolutely does. But there's more of a balance in Fort Wayne from the bottom to the top. There is zero balance in Indy. Either your top ten in the state or you're bottom ten. There doesn't seem to be an in between like there is in Fort Wayne. How did Indy Lutheran become so good so fast? Just a bunch of good ol Lutheran boys working hard? I'm not so sure. 

Not trying to compare South Side to the IPS schools.  They're all bad.  I was using South Side as an example of the same dynamic in The Fort that occurs in Indy.  Both cities had large population shifts away from those two school districts.  IPS seems to have lost more population to the mega township schools outside 465 than FWCS has lost to Snider/Homestead/Carroll.

I agree with you that there is a bigger disparity between IPS and the Indy township schools than there is between South and the rest of the SAC.

And for what it's worth, Lutheran has had about as many players from IPS feeder schools as Concordia has received from South Side/Geyer.

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24 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

You forgot the "C".  RCHS, but I digress

Just because I truly do like you, here you go. 

Muda69, as a champion of School Choice, you must understand that School Choice is not just about Academics.  School Choice is about the entire school community.  Examples of this include, but not limited to:  Academic success/reputation, School Culture, Safety, and yes, EXTRA CURRICULAR Activites, such as Sports, FFA, Robotics, et. al.   As someone who has advocated for School Choice, you cannot be naive to the fact that some families will utilize school choice for their child's athletic endeavors, good or bad, but that is part of the process as well, or as some may think, an unintended consequence of school choice.   

Cheers

Knew what you meant the first time, but this is well-written ... for a PE teacher. :classic_laugh:

Lord, I apologize for that there.

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7 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

Coaches don't even have to recruit to stockpile talent, parents and kids aren't dumb. They know where to go.

This.

The overwhelming majority of what people label "recruiting" is done by parents and other kids.

Ultimately, I'd hate to limit a parent/player's freedom to choose.  It's how markets work.  It may be dumb to change schools for athletic reasons, but limiting freedom to make bad decisions is worse.

 

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Honestly, the coolest part of the story is the kids commitment. Commitment to his home town, teammates, and coaches. His commitment to a MAC school when he could've gone to a more prestigious school by the sounds of it. His leadership on and off the field. I've watched a few of Triton Centrals games on IHSAATV. The kids a very talented QB and football player. It sounds like his character and who he is as a person is going to take him even farther in life. 

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6 minutes ago, kdets89 said:

Not trying to compare South Side to the IPS schools.  They're all bad.  I was using South Side as an example of the same dynamic in The Fort that occurs in Indy.  Both cities had large population shifts away from those two school districts.  IPS seems to have lost more population to the mega township schools outside 465 than FWCS has lost to Snider/Homestead/Carroll.

I agree with you that there is a bigger disparity between IPS and the Indy township schools than there is between South and the rest of the SAC.

And for what it's worth, Lutheran has had about as many players from IPS feeder schools as Concordia has received from South Side/Geyer.

Folks do realize that Lutheran has about 112 boys given the last classification from IHSAA?  I seriously doubt that the number of kids from IPS going to Lutheran makes a hill of beans difference in IPS sports programs.

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10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Folks do realize that Lutheran has about 112 boys given the last classification from IHSAA?  I seriously doubt that the number of kids from IPS going to Lutheran makes a hill of beans difference in IPS sports programs.

I think you'd be surprised. Three or four kids, good kids with athletic ability and leadership ability, can make or break a team. 

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1 minute ago, BTF said:

I think you'd be surprised. Three or four kids, good kids with athletic ability and leadership ability, can make or break a team. 

There's no one ... or three or four ... on a 1A squad the size of Lutheran that's going to help 6A Indy Tech.

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21 minutes ago, foxbat said:

There's no one ... or three or four ... on a 1A squad the size of Lutheran that's going to help 6A Indy Tech.

Look at 2022 North Side vs 2023 North Side. Two or three, not three or four, can make a world of difference. 

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45 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

Coaches don't even have to recruit to stockpile talent, parents and kids aren't dumb. They know where to go.

Make your program the best around. Make your feeder system the best around. The transfer players will show up without the coaches ever speaking to them prior to enrollment. 

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3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Sorry, I've tried and I just don't understand what you are trying to say here.    If you deem to rewrite your statement I will definitely consider it and compose a response.  Maybe get a English teacher from the RHS English department to assist you?

You've got to be kidding me.  His words sound just like somebody talking.  You have to be lying.

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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I will just say this, Ben Davis’s rise to state and national prominence seemed to coincide with Washington HS closing. But I’m getting old and my memory ain’t what it once was. 

At the risk of being corrected by Temptation, you are not correct.

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1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

Ben Davis's State and National prominence was there long before Washington High School closed the first time in 1995. Their National Title came in 1991 Dick Dullaghan started coaching at BD in 1984 and that is when they really began to take off.

Busing though really was the start of the death nail to IPS schools.

I agree with much of this. Ben Davis had always been pretty good in basketball, but the football team largely struggled between 1937 and 1983.

Bob Wilbur did a fine job at BD in the 70's, but the big jump came from the hiring of Dick Dullaghan. Coach D arrived on campus with a program that had a record of 155-265-12. When he retired, BD was 368-307-12. I attribute the biggest jump in hiring Coach D and Coach Kevin Vanderbush.

Judge Dillon's deseg order bussed students from IPS into the townships, and that went into effect in 1981. Washington closed in 1995. 

For a real primer, you might pick up Steve Witty's book "I Remember When The Game Had No Class" because he covers it from the basketball side.

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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I will just say this, Ben Davis’s rise to state and national prominence seemed to coincide with Washington HS closing. But I’m getting old and my memory ain’t what it once was. 

It coincided with the arrival of Mr. Dick Dullaghan. One of the finest men I have met in my lifetime. He treated the janitor the same as he did the Superintendent. Before he was hired at Ben Davis they had only had 10 winning seasons in 46 years.

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35 minutes ago, BTF said:

Look at 2022 North Side vs 2023 North Side. Two or three, not three or four, can make a world of difference. 

There aren't any 1A players in the Ft. Wayne area that could impact North.  And, frankly, if your making the premise that 2A Luers made the difference between the 2022 North record and the 2023 record, then I'd remind you that North has had one winning season in a decade, so I'd not likely call the 2022 season proof of any real premise ... it's an anomaly.  Matter of fact, they did pretty average in 2022 post-season, so I'm not sure that 2022 is much of a data point to hang a premise on (edit).   The problem for that program isn't two or three players or even a 2A school in the area.

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I think you'd be surprised. Three or four kids, good kids with athletic ability and leadership ability, can make or break a team. 

My statement was in specific response to the inference that somehow or another Lutheran was having an impact on IPS schools' success ... which is ludicrous.  Generically, three or four kids can ALWAYS have an impact on any GENERIC team in comparison to their peer levels; however, my issue was specifically about Lutheran and IPS and I don't think that anyone can, with a straight face, blame IPS issues on the fact that one of the smallest 1A schools in the state exists.  Just like North above, their problem isn't (edit) tied to Luers, but if people want to focus on that, then their problem will remain.  Similarly, if folks want to blame the woes of IPS on Lutheran, I can pretty much assure you that nothing will change for IPS.  Matter of fact, I'll go out on a limb here and say that, if Lutheran disappeared tomorrow, Tech would still be in the lower 25% or possibly even 10% of 6A.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I'm referring to the outside district where IPS athletes are more than likely going. Schools close in proximity like Ben Davis and Warren Central. Maybe the reason IPS schools are among the state's worse has something to do with Lutheran and maybe some other Indy PP's. 

Think of Warren Central and Ben Davis similar to Carroll and Homestead. Homestead and Carroll are not part of Fort Wayne Public Schools just like Warren Central, Pike, North Central, Lawrence North, Lawrence Central, Southport, Perry Meridian, Speedway, Franklin Central, and Ben Davis are not part of IPS. The Private/Parochial schools have been around (earliest 1918 Cathedral) even during the hayday when Arsenal Tech, Howe, Washington, etc. were doing very good.

The decline of IPS was a direct result of busing and it has never recovered. From 1973 to 1998 IPS student enrollment plummeted by 64,000 students. It had zero to do with recruiting.

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31 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

It coincided with the arrival of Mr. Dick Dullaghan. One of the finest men I have met in my lifetime. He treated the janitor the same as he did the Superintendent. Before he was hired at Ben Davis they had only had 10 winning seasons in 46 years.

It's 11 by my count.

1940, 1950, 1951, 1954, 1958, 1964, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979

In addition, they were .500 in 1947, 1949 and 1953.

So, all totaled up, the program had 11 winning and a total of 14 non-losing seasons between 1937 and 1983. 

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