Chatard @ Cathedral (Arlington MS)

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

The lights going out didn't change the trajectory of the game. Chatard after going down 21-0 in 1st quarter grabbed the momentum in 2nd qtr scoring 10 points. Then on Saturday kept the momentum scoring 14 more points. Chatard's defense bent but didn't break after Q1. The lights were just a side object.

In my unbiased opinion, I have a hard time believing that it didn't have some sort of impact. Kudos to Chatard for finishing the job on Saturday morning. 

13 minutes ago, Lysander said:

What do you mean by “resources”?  That word can cover a lot of ground.  

A high percentage of kids who can afford offseason training. 

[Footballking16]

39 minutes ago, BTF said:

Embarrassing that the lights went out and changed the trajectory of the game? Or embarrassing that they lost to a smaller school. Isn't Chatard privy to the same kind of resources that Cathedral is? I'm asking an honest question since I don't live in Indy. 

The entire ordeal.

[Footballking16]

6 minutes ago, BTF said:

In my unbiased opinion, I have a hard time believing that it didn't have some sort of impact. Kudos to Chatard for finishing the job on Saturday morning.

It didn’t.
 

Cathedral and staff thought the game was over after the 1st quarter while Chatard played the entire game. 

[BTF]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

The entire ordeal.

Maybe the Irish are back to being normal? A Top Ten program? Or would you say being Top 3 is normal? I feel that being Top 3 for Cathedral was just a trend that lasted 5 years or so. 

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

It didn’t.
 

Cathedral and staff thought the game was over after the 1st quarter while Chatard played the entire game. 

Fair, just had to hear it from a Cathedral fan. 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Maybe the Irish are back to being normal? A Top Ten program? Or would you say being Top 3 is normal? I feel that being Top 3 for Cathedral was just a trend that lasted 5 years or so. 

Not real fixated on rankings. Losing to Chatard doesn’t bother me so much as the way they lost. Chatard is a rivalry game and more than a formidable opponent but they out-played and out-coached Cathedral for the final 36 minutes and that can’t happen. 
 

[Lysander]

17 minutes ago, BTF said:

A high percentage of kids who can afford offseason training. 

I hear that phrase “off-season” training used as something you “buy” as opposed to the weight training, etc. that serious and quality football teams expect from athletes in the off-season that is offered as part of the program.  As to off-season “camps”, unless things have changed at Chatard, any “skill camp” other than the one the school offered was historically strongly discouraged.  

And if you’re referencing some sort of off-season travel football teams that seems to be a mechanism to part rube pre-high school kid parents from their money and likely end a kid’s playing days early.  Football ain’t hoops….thank God.

I feel like I see this “off-season training” used elsewhere (over on the moronic Facebook page) as something generally wealthy suburban schools or private/parochials have some sort of access to that allows them to somehow “buy” performance for their kids.   Frankly, it’s a canard….just another excuse in my mind…and it seems to be a largely rural v. city thing.

 Off-season training is something you just do.   Although I played football in HS, it was track that paid for my college.  My off-season training was running the highways 8-10 miles per day and the cost was time, sweat, blisters and a couple pair of Nikes per year.

Sorry, PTR, I just had a “Get off my lawn!” moment and, admittedly, it was directed at some of the stuff I read elsewhere.

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

In my unbiased opinion, I have a hard time believing that it didn't have some sort of impact. Kudos to Chatard for finishing the job on Saturday morning. 

A high percentage of kids who can afford offseason training. 

I understand that when something out of the ordinary happens, general human tendency is to wonder about its impact.  If it was something that happened to one side and not the other, I'd be more inclined to consider that.  For example, if Cathedral's bus broke down on the way to the game the second day and the team had to push the bus five miles to a gas station before the game, then I'd say that perhaps one team "benefited" from the unusual circumstance or if Cathedral had to play the remainder of the game without their starting QB because his big brother was getting married that Saturday and he was the best man so he couldn't attend.  In this case, however, both teams had to come back the next day, facing the same/similar hardships, etc.  I'm not sure that either team had an advantage or disadvantage based on the postponement; especially given that Chatard was putting up points in the second quarter and Cathedral wasn't.

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, foxbat said:

I understand that when something out of the ordinary happens, general human tendency is to wonder about its impact.  If it was something that happened to one side and not the other, I'd be more inclined to consider that.  For example, if Cathedral's bus broke down on the way to the game the second day and the team had to push the bus five miles to a gas station before the game, then I'd say that perhaps one team "benefited" from the unusual circumstance or if Cathedral had to play the remainder of the game without their starting QB because his big brother was getting married that Saturday and he was the best man so he couldn't attend.  In this case, however, both teams had to come back the next day, facing the same/similar hardships, etc.  I'm not sure that either team had an advantage or disadvantage based on the postponement; especially given that Chatard was putting up points in the second quarter and Cathedral wasn't.

Don’t think anyone from Cathedral is going to blame this on the lights when it happened at their venue of all places.

One team showed up to play Saturday morning while the other team was still in bed. I’ll let you guess which team won.

[Lysander]

36 minutes ago, BTF said:

Maybe the Irish are back to being normal? A Top Ten program? Or would you say being Top 3 is normal? I feel that being Top 3 for Cathedral was just a trend that lasted 5 years or so. 

The new “normal” for Cathedral is to be a Top 10 program EVERY year that is capable of winning 6A in any given year……INCLUDING THIS YEAR.   No one here is ever going to mistake me for some guy who is all “kumbaya” when it comes to Cathedral but they will be and are fine…and might well still win it all this year.

Let’s be clear, both Cathedral and Chatard hate to lose games to each other or anyone else but they both are quite prepared to regularly play a schedule that will result in the loss of 3 or more games playing a pre-playoff schedule that makes them better for said playoffs.  

Frankly, Cathedral has taken that concept to another level.  During the Streif years they aggressively sought out high-profile in and out of state games that have served to elevate the school’s exposure even more so than it was.  Moving Cathedral up to 6A has served to, frankly, rocket them even higher in their ability to access athletes from all over central Indiana who realize they can play for them…and increase their own personal exposure.  If you’re a great athlete in Pike township (and there are a TON of those kids out there) why in the world would you play for Pike when Cathedral is 30 minutes away?

Cathedral will be fine.  They are an immensely talented team that can win it all this year or in any given year.  
 

As a side note, I think if Carmel and Center Grove continue to take advantage of playing these out of state powerhouses it will also make them even more successful than they already are as Indiana powers (admittedly CG seems to have had the better of it so far).

[BTF]

19 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I understand that when something out of the ordinary happens, general human tendency is to wonder about its impact.  If it was something that happened to one side and not the other, I'd be more inclined to consider that.  For example, if Cathedral's bus broke down on the way to the game the second day and the team had to push the bus five miles to a gas station before the game, then I'd say that perhaps one team "benefited" from the unusual circumstance or if Cathedral had to play the remainder of the game without their starting QB because his big brother was getting married that Saturday and he was the best man so he couldn't attend.  In this case, however, both teams had to come back the next day, facing the same/similar hardships, etc.  I'm not sure that either team had an advantage or disadvantage based on the postponement; especially given that Chatard was putting up points in the second quarter and Cathedral wasn't.

Why does every coach try to ice the opposing team's kicker at the end of the game when the kick is going to determine the outcome? I respect what you're saying, I'm just not buying it. All sorts of things can change the momentum of a football game. Delaying it until the next morning is one of them. Just my humble opinion. 

19 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Don’t think anyone from Cathedral is going to blame this on the lights when it happened at their venue of all places.

One team showed up to play Saturday morning while the other team was still in bed. I’ll let you guess which team won.

So you're acknowledging that the delay had some kind of an impact. 

[Slobberknocker]

54 minutes ago, Lysander said:

I hear that phrase “off-season” training used as something you “buy” as opposed to the weight training, etc. that serious and quality football teams expect from athletes in the off-season that is offered as part of the program.  As to off-season “camps”, unless things have changed at Chatard, any “skill camp” other than the one the school offered was historically strongly discouraged.  

And if you’re referencing some sort of off-season travel football teams that seems to be a mechanism to part rube pre-high school kid parents from their money and likely end a kid’s playing days early.  Football ain’t hoops….thank God.

I feel like I see this “off-season training” used elsewhere (over on the moronic Facebook page) as something generally wealthy suburban schools or private/parochials have some sort of access to that allows them to somehow “buy” performance for their kids.   Frankly, it’s a canard….just another excuse in my mind…and it seems to be a largely rural v. city thing.

 Off-season training is something you just do.   Although I played football in HS, it was track that paid for my college.  My off-season training was running the highways 8-10 miles per day and the cost was time, sweat, blisters and a couple pair of Nikes per year.

Sorry, PTR, I just had a “Get off my lawn!” moment and, admittedly, it was directed at some of the stuff I read elsewhere.

So if nobody are using places like X-Factor QB Academy, how do they stay in business. X-Factor QB Academy advertises that they been in business for 11 years.

[BTF]

1 minute ago, Slobberknocker said:

So if nobody are using places like X-Factor QB Academy, how do they stay in business. X-Factor QB Academy advertises that they been in business for 11 years.

Interesting point. 

[Lysander]

4 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

So if nobody are using places like X-Factor QB Academy, how do they stay in business. X-Factor QB Academy advertises that they been in business for 11 years.

I thought I mentioned something about “a mechanism to part rube pre-high school kids parents from their money.”  

[temptation]

17 minutes ago, Slobberknocker said:

So if nobody are using places like X-Factor QB Academy, how do they stay in business. X-Factor QB Academy advertises that they been in business for 11 years.

Great counter point.

[foxbat]

27 minutes ago, BTF said:

Why does every coach try to ice the opposing team's kicker at the end of the game when the kick is going to determine the outcome? I respect what you're saying, I'm just not buying it. All sorts of things can change the momentum of a football game. Delaying it until the next morning is one of them. Just my humble opinion. 

 

That is a one-sided advantage item.  The defense makes the kicker think more about it and hopefully that makes them miss.  As to why coaches do it?  They have an extra time out that they don't get to save for next week and don't get to exchange it for a free order of fries at McDonalds after the game if they don't use them all.  It costs them nothing at all to use it.  The same way that it costs nothing for everyone on the defense to put their hands up, nor for everyone behind the goal post to sway.  Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.  Most of the time, if it works, it's on longer kicks which are going to be lower percentage anyway.  In either case, it's a one-sided "disadvantage" at a specific time.  For said analogy to be similarly applicable, the act of playing on the next day would have had to mess with Cathedral's COLLECTIVE team psyche and done so for two quarters, with a lead, as opposed to a single play, one a single player, with the whole game resting on a single play and coming from behind.

I could see the argument if postponement affects Cathedral because they don't play well in the morning and Chatard plays great in mornings, but I doubt that's the case here.  It could certainly be an issue if Cathedral plays well in the rain and the postponement moved to a day where the ground was now dry and the sun was out with a slight breeze.  Now you could argue that they are at a disadvantage.  Could certainly get on board with that.  Could be that the postponement forced the game to be played at one of the school's home field instead of a neutral location?  That could certainly have an impact.  But I'm just not seeing the detriment to Cathedral for anything that would be a one-sided detriment.  As @Footballking16 said, "One team showed up to play Saturday morning while the other team was still in bed" and this wasn't a case of Elaine's wake-up service failing Jean-Paul/Cathedral or Kramer giving them hot tea to pour on themselves.

Perhaps, let's take this from a different angle.  Specifically what impacted Cathedral negatively?  If Cathedral was the dominant team, then it really doesn't matter if they played on split days.  If they weren't the dominant team, then maybe you could argue that they had "the luck of the Irish" on that one Friday night and were going to stun Goliath.  Possibly, but I don't think luck ever has much to do with Cathedral's, or Chatard's for that matter, performance.  There are times where a postponement CAN have an impact on a game, but I'm just not seeing it in this particular game.  I could be missing something specific here, but I haven't seen anyone mention something specific to this particular game.

[Lysander]

Just to be a completist from yesterday:

Chatard Freshmen         21

Cathedral Freshmen       14

I know PBJ always wants to acknowledge the Freshmen score so I thought I’d note it.  

I guess Chatard’s kids must have attended more special camps…

[BTF]

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

That is a one-sided advantage item.  The defense makes the kicker think more about it and hopefully that makes them miss.  As to why coaches do it?  They have an extra time out that they don't get to save for next week and don't get to exchange it for a free order of fries at McDonalds after the game if they don't use them all.  It costs them nothing at all to use it.  The same way that it costs nothing for everyone on the defense to put their hands up, nor for everyone behind the goal post to sway.  Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't.  Most of the time, if it works, it's on longer kicks which are going to be lower percentage anyway.  In either case, it's a one-sided "disadvantage" at a specific time.  For said analogy to be similarly applicable, the act of playing on the next day would have had to mess with Cathedral's COLLECTIVE team psyche and done so for two quarters, with a lead, as opposed to a single play, one a single player, with the whole game resting on a single play and coming from behind.

I could see the argument if postponement affects Cathedral because they don't play well in the morning and Chatard plays great in mornings, but I doubt that's the case here.  It could certainly be an issue if Cathedral plays well in the rain and the postponement moved to a day where the ground was now dry and the sun was out with a slight breeze.  Now you could argue that they are at a disadvantage.  Could certainly get on board with that.  Could be that the postponement forced the game to be played at one of the school's home field instead of a neutral location?  That could certainly have an impact.  But I'm just not seeing the detriment to Cathedral for anything that would be a one-sided detriment.  As @Footballking16 said, "One team showed up to play Saturday morning while the other team was still in bed" and this wasn't a case of Elaine's wake-up service failing Jean-Paul/Cathedral or Kramer giving them hot tea to pour on themselves.

Perhaps, let's take this from a different angle.  Specifically what impacted Cathedral negatively?  If Cathedral was the dominant team, then it really doesn't matter if they played on split days.  If they weren't the dominant team, then maybe you could argue that they had "the luck of the Irish" on that one Friday night and were going to stun Goliath.  Possibly, but I don't think luck ever has much to do with Cathedral's, or Chatard's for that matter, performance.  There are times where a postponement CAN have an impact on a game, but I'm just not seeing it in this particular game.  I could be missing something specific here, but I haven't seen anyone mention something specific to this particular game.

I commend your post. You'd make a good attorney. I still think it had an impact though. For the record, this is the first time I've defended Cathedral in all my years on the forum.............no dog in the fight. 

To the Chatard contingent: Congratulations on your impressive win. 

[Southside]

On 9/10/2023 at 1:23 PM, Lysander said:

I guess Chatard’s kids must have attended more special camps…

I'm pretty sure that most of the top Chatard and Cathedral football players work out together at the exact same facility, with the exact same trainers. They go to Genesis Sports Performance on 65th Street.

[FastpacedO]

9 hours ago, Southside said:

I'm pretty sure that most of the top Chatard and Cathedral football players work out together at the exact same facility, with the exact same trainers. They go to Genesis Sports Performance on 65th Street.

You mean they don't work out at Globo Gym?