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mcgoo45

Bill Belichick

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6 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Going to play devil's advocate here.  If he is THAT great, then why wasn't he successful at his previous HC job?  He is only as great as his "situation".  Let him take over the 49ers job or the Bears job and let's see how great really he is.  He has an owner that gives him what he wants and they both seem to be on the same page (and have been for a long time).  Remove that element, and he isn't in the "greatest"  conversation any more. If a coach is truly great, then he will succeed no matter what team he is running.  My feelings towards the Pats has always been this:  their scouting system is the greatest.  It isn't about Belichik or Brady.  Look at how many key guys they lose in FA (or injuries) year after year and yet they just "plug and play" with no real dropoff.  No, the REAL greatest is their scouts.  Best evaluators in the business.  That is how they stay on top and why they have played in so many AFC Championships and Super Bowls.  I would say that Pittsburgh is second greatest (scouting department).  That is what separates those 2 franchises from the rest of the league.

He won a playoff game in Cleveland at his previous HC job; who has done that since? Nobody. He was disliked in Cleveland and lost control of the organization when the owner started trying to move the team. He coordinated one of the best defenses ever in New York when working for the Giants before that even. He built one of the best defenses in the NFL when he first got to New England. His teams are always at the top of the league in special teams, fewest turnovers, and fewest penalties and they handle crucial situations better than anybody else in the league.

Their scouts are running a system to evaluate and grade players that he created and trained them on. He approves all signings, releases, and draft picks as the coach and GM. A lot of people don't realize he is an economics major with a great deal of knowledge of the salary cap and how to use economics to build a complete team. He is the main reason why their scouting staff is as great as it is and why the reload year after year.  

I would be willing to bet that he would have the Bears, 49ers, Browns, any other team you want to name, in the playoffs within 3 years if he were to take over for them. He did it in Cleveland and he did it in New England so his track record proves it to be likely.

 

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On 1/23/2018 at 6:57 AM, coachfields said:

Belichick is the best coach there is. If I were hiring a coach, he would be alone at the top of the list. However, Tom Brady is also the best qb there is. Is it the tandem that keeps things going? Could Belichick do it without Brady? And conversely could Brady do it without Belichick? 

If you could only have one of them, who would you take

I’d take Brady. The NFL is, and always has been, a talent driven league. That’s no knock on Belichick, he’s the best ever at his job. But as I heard Mike Vrabel say in an interview the other day, “I’ll take players over plays any day.”

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interesting question:  If Tom Brady is on the Bears, how many actual playoff games does he win?   I say they win 2 super bowls in 2005-2008 era.    That Defense was Legit Super Bowl Team.   But from Trestman to Fox, no way Brady could of elevated them to Playoffs imo 

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11 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

interesting question:  If Tom Brady is on the Bears, how many actual playoff games does he win?   I say they win 2 super bowls in 2005-2008 era.    That Defense was Legit Super Bowl Team.   But from Trestman to Fox, no way Brady could of elevated them to Playoffs imo 

And Belichik could have?

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38 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

interesting question:  If Tom Brady is on the Bears, how many actual playoff games does he win?   I say they win 2 super bowls in 2005-2008 era.    That Defense was Legit Super Bowl Team.   But from Trestman to Fox, no way Brady could of elevated them to Playoffs imo 

I agree; especially when you consider Grossman was a QB when they went. If Brady is on that team, even the Bears of today would look like a much different team.

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx18029/bill-belichick-tom-brady-contributed-more-new-england-patriots-dynasty-2017-nfl-playoffs-super-bowl-lii

 

together they are the perfect storm, a dynasty like we will probably never see again in the NFL. If you split them up my money is on each of them winning a couple Super Bowls in their careers.

The best QB and on-field leader of all time. The best Coach/GM of all time.

I don’t see how you can argue those points, especially if they win Sunday. Enjoy this while it lasts. 

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14 minutes ago, FishDuck said:

Enjoy this while it lasts. 

or not! :07_v:

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3 hours ago, FishDuck said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx18029/bill-belichick-tom-brady-contributed-more-new-england-patriots-dynasty-2017-nfl-playoffs-super-bowl-lii

 

together they are the perfect storm, a dynasty like we will probably never see again in the NFL. If you split them up my money is on each of them winning a couple Super Bowls in their careers.

The best QB and on-field leader of all time. The best Coach/GM of all time.

I don’t see how you can argue those points, especially if they win Sunday. Enjoy this while it lasts. 

My thoughts are much in line with the thoughts in the article. 

Although, I am not sure how I feel about them lumping Brett Favre into the conversation of all time greatest QBs. 

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I was watching some Super Bowl coverage this morning and a thought popped in my head. I am not a huge Patriots fan nor NFL really. I kind of watch it in passing. 

Does anyone know if there are any other coaches, players or staff that have been around for the whole 17 years of the Patriots dynasty run? 

I think it would be interesting to point out those guys if they exist. 

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:44 AM, coachfields said:

I was watching some Super Bowl coverage this morning and a thought popped in my head. I am not a huge Patriots fan nor NFL really. I kind of watch it in passing. 

Does anyone know if there are any other coaches, players or staff that have been around for the whole 17 years of the Patriots dynasty run? 

I think it would be interesting to point out those guys if they exist. 

Player wise, I am almost sure that Brady is the only one that has been around for the entire 17 year run.

O-Line coach Dante Scarnecchia has been around for the dynasty run all but 2-3 seasons where he briefly retired in 2014. He has coached in 42 of the 51 playoff games in the Patriots entire organizational history. One of the absolute best in the business as far as coaching the guys up front.

Ivan Fears has been the team's running backs coach since 2002 and was a wide receivers coach from 1999-2001 in New England.

Matt Patricia joined the Patriots in 2004 as a defensive assistant.

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On 1/29/2018 at 9:06 AM, FishDuck said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/Barnwellx18029/bill-belichick-tom-brady-contributed-more-new-england-patriots-dynasty-2017-nfl-playoffs-super-bowl-lii

 

together they are the perfect storm, a dynasty like we will probably never see again in the NFL. If you split them up my money is on each of them winning a couple Super Bowls in their careers.

The best QB and on-field leader of all time. The best Coach/GM of all time.

I don’t see how you can argue those points, especially if they win Sunday. Enjoy this while it lasts. 

If they had never teamed up I think they both may have won a ring or two. 

If they split up now for some reason, I don't think either would win another.  

I still think like many, they are going to end their careers at the same time.  

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9 minutes ago, Coach_G said:

If they had never teamed up I think they both may have won a ring or two. 

If they split up now for some reason, I don't think either would win another.  

I still think like many, they are going to end their careers at the same time.  

I think Belichick could still get one but only because he is smart enough not to take a bad situation.

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1 hour ago, coachfields said:

I think Belichick could still get one but only because he is smart enough not to take a bad situation.

What's impressive about Belichick is that he took a 5-11 team in 2000 under Pete Carroll, and won the SB in his first year (2001) with a back-up QB. (Brady)  Check the playoff scores during that first run...they won on defense and with a clutch kicker.  That defense held the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points in the SB.  Brady may have won the SB MVP because of the glory given to QB's....but it was about the defense, special teams and a great head coach.

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20 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

What's impressive about Belichick is that he took a 5-11 team in 2000 under Pete Carroll, and won the SB in his first year (2001) with a back-up QB. (Brady)  Check the playoff scores during that first run...they won on defense and with a clutch kicker.  That defense held the "greatest show on turf" to 17 points in the SB.  Brady may have won the SB MVP because of the glory given to QB's....but it was about the defense, special teams and a great head coach.

I think you are a year off, I believe Belichick was 5-11 in his first year and then won the Super Bowl in his second year. 

I do think credit goes to the Defense and kicking team though. If I am remember correctly Brady went down in the AFC Championship or the round before and Bledsoe came back in for a game at QB.

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23 hours ago, coachfields said:

I think you are a year off, I believe Belichick was 5-11 in his first year and then won the Super Bowl in his second year. 

I do think credit goes to the Defense and kicking team though. If I am remember correctly Brady went down in the AFC Championship or the round before and Bledsoe came back in for a game at QB.

you are correct....I was a year off...my bad.  Regardless, turning that program around pretty quickly and back then Brady (for good reason) wasn't near the QB has been over the past 10+ years.  But the Pats D was incredible...as a Colts fan, I remember the frustration they brought to the Colts O in the playoffs.  That Linebacking corp was lights out with Bruschi, Johnson, Vrabel, and McGinest.  (sorry for the spelling)  Rodney Harrison at safety, Ty Law at corner, etc.  were physical and lights out.  Tough, tough D, along with an exception special teams gang.  Man, did I hate those guys....but sure as heck respect what they did.

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1 hour ago, Trojan Dad said:

you are correct....I was a year off...my bad.  Regardless, turning that program around pretty quickly and back then Brady (for good reason) wasn't near the QB has been over the past 10+ years.  But the Pats D was incredible...as a Colts fan, I remember the frustration they brought to the Colts O in the playoffs.  That Linebacking corp was lights out with Bruschi, Johnson, Vrabel, and McGinest.  (sorry for the spelling)  Rodney Harrison at safety, Ty Law at corner, etc.  were physical and lights out.  Tough, tough D, along with an exception special teams gang.  Man, did I hate those guys....but sure as heck respect what they did.

I agree that their defense was spectacular. I remember the showdowns and the rivalry between Colts and Pats. Those were fun years to watch football with one side being home state team (even though I am not a huge NFL fan). Didn't the Pats stop the Colts one game on like a 1st and goal from the 1 for four straight downs? 

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20 minutes ago, coachfields said:

I agree that their defense was spectacular. I remember the showdowns and the rivalry between Colts and Pats. Those were fun years to watch football with one side being home state team (even though I am not a huge NFL fan). Didn't the Pats stop the Colts one game on like a 1st and goal from the 1 for four straight downs? 

I was at the game at the RCA dome....Pats stopped the Colts 4 straight times...I know all were inside the 5.  Willie McGinest came out with an injury that slowed the Colts getting the snap off quickly in one of those early 4 players...had to be helped off the field.  When they stopped Edgerrin on 4th down, McGinest was in on the play....he sprinted down the field in celebration to almost the 50 yd line...obviously not seriously hurt.  Colts fans were livid.  My young son learned a ton of words that day.  The game was huge for the Pats...gave them home field in the playoffs against the Colts...and that factored in greatly with the Pats beating the Colts at cold Gillette in Jan during the playoffs.

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Haunting thought:  was Belichick outcoached in the Super Bowl?  Seemed like he had no answers for the Eagle offense.  Other than 1 punt, the Eagles did pretty much whatever they wanted to.  I can't recall seeing another team do that against him (Belichick) for an entire game.  At least the past decade or so.

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1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

Haunting thought:  was Belichick outcoached in the Super Bowl?  Seemed like he had no answers for the Eagle offense.  Other than 1 punt, the Eagles did pretty much whatever they wanted to.  I can't recall seeing another team do that against him (Belichick) for an entire game.  At least the past decade or so.

The Eagles certainly had all the answers and we’re unstoppable. I really think a big part of it was just better personnel, the Patriots really struggled at times this season trying to mask a lack of good athletes on defense. No pass rush, an injury riddled LB corps, and a weakened secondary with Butler out was too easy it looked like for Pederson and Foles. On the same note, the Patriots offense was unstoppable as well and had receivers open all night—more reason why Colts fans should be excited about McDaniels. I will say, I give a lot of credit to Pederson for never taking his foot off the gas and having the guts to make some of the calls he did—a lot of times opposing coaches fall into a spell of stupidity when facing Belichick. He didn’t, and deserves all the credit of being the best coach on the field last night. Great game

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1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

Haunting thought:  was Belichick outcoached in the Super Bowl?  Seemed like he had no answers for the Eagle offense.  Other than 1 punt, the Eagles did pretty much whatever they wanted to.  I can't recall seeing another team do that against him (Belichick) for an entire game.  At least the past decade or so.

I think it was Matt Patricia that was outcoached. And anybody know what the deal was with Butler?

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5 minutes ago, bobref said:

I think it was Matt Patricia that was outcoached. And anybody know what the deal was with Butler?

Report I have heard this evening is that he was caught out late for curfew the night before the game and had narcotics on him...ridiculous if true 

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22 minutes ago, FishDuck said:

Report I have heard this evening is that he was caught out late for curfew the night before the game and had narcotics on him...ridiculous if true 

IMO him not being on the field was the difference.

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6 minutes ago, bobref said:

IMO him not being on the field was the difference.

Definitely would have helped. I’ve never been a big fan of Rowe, I know he has great size to match up with Jeffery but there is a definite difference in speed and reaction time between he and Butler.

The Eagles run game was too good early and their guys made too many 50-50 catches for me to say he would have for sure changed the outcome 

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59 minutes ago, FishDuck said:

Definitely would have helped. I’ve never been a big fan of Rowe, I know he has great size to match up with Jeffery but there is a definite difference in speed and reaction time between he and Butler.

The Eagles run game was too good early and their guys made too many 50-50 catches for me to say he would have for sure changed the outcome 

You may be right. But I think he would have made a difference on those 50-50 balls

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