What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

[Frozen Tundra]

Earlier in the week, @Bobref started a thread titled "Sectional Draw 2023" and the thread kind of went a couple directions away from the intended purpose. One of those directions pertained to the notion that 6A and 1A should be the classifications with 32 teams rather than 6A and 5A. This topic interested me, and I decided to take a deep dive researching it. It took me about ten hours total over the course of several days to compile. I'm not saying this to get a pat on the back, but to help you understand I didn't just breeze through it without any deep thought or research.

Nevertheless, for this particular scenario, I compiled lists for 1A through 5A using the most recent enrollment numbers the IHSAA released (which was two years ago). I excluded 6A since it obviously wouldn't be affected by the change. In compiling the classification lists, the goal was to base it off this specific year's tournament in regard to the Fort Wayne Dwenger situation and the teams playing up due to the success factor. The 1A through 5A breakdown for this year's tournament is the following:

5A - 31 teams

4A - 64 teams

3A - 64 teams

2A - 62 teams

1A - 58 teams

Total - 279 teams

 

I wanted to keep these numbers as similar as possible. This meant that 5A would have 63 teams rather than 64 as a result of the IHSAA moving FW Dwenger down in the middle of the classification period. Therefore, these were the classification numbers I came up with:

5A - 63 teams

4A - 64 teams

3A - 64 teams

2A - 56 teams

1A - 32 teams

Total - 279 teams

 

After compiling lists for the classifications, I wanted to look at the ranges for each classification from the largest school to the smallest school. See below.

5A (63 teams)

Largest School: Harrison (WL) - 2,079 students

Smallest School: New Haven - 1,064 students

4A (64 teams)

Largest School: Kankakee Valley - 1,062 students

Smallest School (aside from the success factor team): Bellmont - 641 students

Success Factor Team: Evansville Memorial - 556 students

3A (64 teams)

Largest School: John Glenn - 638 students

Smallest Schools: North Putnam and Tell City - 444 students

2A (56 teams)

Largest School: Indianapolis Scecina - 439 students

Smallest School: Covington - 294 students

Success Factor Team: Lafayette Central Catholic - 296 students

1A (32 teams)

Largest School: Fremont - 291 students

Smallest School: Attica - 170 students

 

Here are the ranges from the scenario above compared to the current numbers (excluding success factor teams):

5A: 1,064 - 2,079 (currently 1,513 - 2,079)

4A: 641 - 1,062 (currently 795 - 1,510)

3A: 444 - 638 (currently 511 - 790)

2A: 294 - 439 (currently 379 - 510)

1A: 170 - 291 (currently 170 - 378)

 

Instead of just compiling a list of classifications given the scenario, I wanted to get the full scope of what this could look like as it pertains to sectional assignments. As a result, I put together classification maps and spent a ton of time trying to come up with sectional assignments that limit travel time as best as possible while also ensuring schools from the same school district aren't split up. I cannot stress enough how hard I tried to keep travel times down.  I flirted with many different scenarios by looking at the travel times on Google Maps but some long trips just couldn't be helped. It's important to note I'm only including these sectional assignments to give you an idea of how 1A through 5A could look given the hypothetical 32 team 1A scenario. I'm not necessarily saying this is how they should look. See the link below to view the classification/sectional assignment maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1SqvN_8IxXWiJQxvs4E0RSxadUGh_f9k&usp=sharing

 

Here are the sectional assignments I came up with.

5A (63)

Sectional 9 (8): East Chicago Central, Gary West, Hammond Central, Hammond Morton, Harrison (WL), Lowell, McCutcheon, Munster

Sectional 10 (8): Chesterton, Hobart, LaPorte, Merrillville, Michigan City, Mishawaka, South Bend Adams, Valparaiso

Sectional 11 (8): Columbia City, Concord, Goshen, Huntington North, Kokomo, Logansport, Northridge, Plymouth

Sectional 12 (7): DeKalb, Fort Wayne North, Fort Wayne Snider, Fort Wayne South, Fort Wayne Wayne, Muncie Central, New Haven

Sectional 13 (8): Anderson, Greenfield-Central, Indianapolis Attucks, Indianapolis Roncalli, Mt. Vernon (Fortville), New Palestine, Pendleton Heights, Richmond

Sectional 14 (8): Columbus East, East Central, Franklin, Greenwood, Jennings County, Seymour, Shelbyville, Whiteland

Sectional 15 (8): Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Decatur Central, Martinsville, Mooresville, Plainfield, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South

Sectional 16 (8): Bedford North Lawrence, Castle, Evansville Central, Evansville Harrison, Evansville North, Evansville Reitz, Floyd Central, New Albany

4A (64)

Sectional 17 (8): Hanover Central, Highland, Kankakee Valley, New Prairie, South Bend Clay, South Bend Riley, South Bend St. Joseph, South Bend Washington

Sectional 18 (8): Angola, Culver Academy, East Noble, Leo, Mishawaka Marian, NorthWood, Wawasee, West Noble

Sectional 19 (8): Bellmont, Delta, Fort Wayne Dwenger, Jay County, Marion, Mississinewa, Norwell, Yorktown

Sectional 20 (8): Frankfort, Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Lebanon, Peru, Twin Lakes, Western, West Lafayette

Sectional 21 (8): Brebeuf Jesuit, Crawfordsville, Danville, Edgewood, Indianapolis Shortridge, Indianapolis Washington, Northview, Owen Valley

Sectional 22 (8): Batesville, Beech Grove, Connersville, Franklin County, Greensburg, Indianapolis Chatard, New Castle, Rushville

Sectional 23 (8): Charlestown, Corydon Central, Lawrenceburg, Madison, North Harrison, Scottsburg, Silver Creek, South Dearborn

Sectional 24 (8): Boonville, Evansville Bosse, Evansville Memorial, Gibson Southern, Jasper, Mt. Vernon (Posey), Vincennes Lincoln, Washington

 

3A (64)

Sectional 25 (8): Benton Central, Boone Grove, Calumet, Griffith, Hammond Noll, Rensselaer Central, River Forest, Whiting

Sectional 26 (8): Bremen, Fairfield, Jimtown, John Glenn, Knox, Lakeland, Rochester, Tippecanoe Valley

Sectional 27 (8): Bluffton, Fort Wayne Concordia, Fort Wayne Luers, Garrett, Heritage, Manchester, Wabash, Woodlan

Sectional 28 (8): Alexandria-Monroe, Blackford, Eastbrook, Eastern (Greentown), Maconaquah, Northwestern, Oak Hill, Tipton

Sectional 29 (8): Greencastle, North Montgomery, North Putnam, Southmont, South Vermillion, Tri-West, Western Boone, West Vigo

Sectional 30 (8): Centerville, Christel House Manual, Frankton, Heritage Christian, Indianapolis Ritter, Lapel, Purdue Polytechnic, Speedway

Sectional 31 (8): Brown County, Brownstown Central, Cascade, Indian Creek, Mitchell, Monrovia, Salem, Triton Central

Sectional 32 (8): Evansville Mater Dei, Heritage Hills, North Posey, Pike Central, Princeton, Southridge, Sullivan, Tell City

 

2A (56)

Sectional 33 (8): Andrean, Lake Station, LaVille, North Judson, North Newton, South Central (Union Mills), Wheeler, Winamac

Sectional 34 (7): Adams Central, Central Noble, Churubusco, Eastside, Prairie Heights, South Adams, Whitko

Sectional 35 (8): Carroll (Flora), Clinton Prairie, Covington, Delphi, Lafayette Central Catholic, Lewis Cass, Pioneer, Seeger

Sectional 36 (6): Elwood, Madison-Grant, Monroe Central, Sheridan, Taylor, Winchester

Sectional 37 (6): Covenant Christian, Eastern Hancock, Indianapolis Scecina, Knightstown, Park Tudor, Shenandoah

Sectional 38 (6): Hagerstown, Milan, North Decatur, Northeastern, Switzerland County, Union County

Sectional 39 (7): Cloverdale, Eastern Greene, Linton-Stockton, North Knox, Parke Heritage, Riverton Parke, South Putnam

Sectional 40 (8): Clarksville, Crawford County, Eastern (Pekin), Forest Park, Paoli, Perry Central, Providence, South Spencer

1A (32)

Sectional 41 (4): Bowman Academy, Frontier, South Newton, Tri-County

Sectional 42 (4): Culver, North White, Triton, West Central

Sectional 43 (4): Caston, Clinton Central, North Miami, Tri-Central

Sectional 44 (4): Fremont, Northfield, Southern Wells, Southwood

Sectional 45 (4): Cambridge City Lincoln, Tri, Union City, Wes-Del

Sectional 46 (4): Edinburgh, Indianapolis Lutheran, Indianapolis Tindley, South Decatur

Sectional 47 (4): Attica, Fountain Central, North Central (Farmersburg), North Vermillion

Sectional 48 (4): North Daviess, Springs Valley, Tecumseh, West Washington

 

I hope you all find this information as interesting as I did. Does this information change your original opinion? Should 5A remain at 32 teams or should 1A have 32 teams instead? Feel free to provide your thoughts and share any ideas you have.

[kdets89]

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this, and I agree with this in concept.

Let me be the first to suggest:  Move Lutheran out of this version of 1A.

[Frozen Tundra]

1 minute ago, kdets89 said:

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this, and I agree with this in concept.

Let me be the first to suggest:  Move Lutheran out of this version of 1A.

Yeah I cringed when I saw they’d be a part of a 32 team 1A. It would be the most lopsided class of the six. I would hope the team, coaches, and school would recognize this and play up as a goodwill gesture rather than having to be moved up due to the success factor. 

[Komets2727]

Since you read the sectional thread then you know I am all in favor of this concept. It baffles me how incompetent the IHSAA really is that they haven’t done this already. The smallest schools and the largest schools should be the smaller class tournaments, 32 teams each. 
 

Also, let me be the first to say what a great job you did with this!!!👍

Guess I am the second to say it…

Edited October 15, 2023 by Komets2727

[Frozen Tundra]

Just now, Komets2727 said:

Since you read the sectional thread then you know I am all in favor of this concept. It baffles me how incompetent the IHSAA really is that they haven’t done this already. The smallest schools and the largest schools should be the smaller class tournaments, 32 teams each. 

I completely agree. I have to think the IHSAA looked into a 32 team 1A scenario before going with a 32 team 5A instead. If that’s the case, I’m guessing they saw how big of a gap there’d be between the biggest and potentially smallest 5A teams and thought, “1,000 students is too much.” Either that or they didn’t like how weak 1A looked. I don’t know. Nevertheless, I’m with you. Needs to be a 32 team 1A.

[WWFan]

I personally think it waters down 1A way too much. Lutheran would be bored. LCC would be too when they come back down. Are Lutheran and Springs Valley the only current ranked teams that would still be in 1A? Might as well go back to 5 classes. 

[Frozen Tundra]

4 minutes ago, WWFan said:

I personally think it waters down 1A way too much. Lutheran would be bored. LCC would be too when they come back down. Are Lutheran and Springs Valley the only current ranked teams that would still be in 1A? Might as well go back to 5 classes. 

North White is #7 in both polls and would be in 1A if it dropped to 32

[Frozen Tundra]

22 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Also, let me be the first to say what a great job you did with this!!!👍

Guess I am the second to say it…

I appreciate it but, like I said, I wasn’t trying to get a pat on the back. This was a lot of fun for me to research. My only regret is that I couldn’t complete it quicker. Being a husband and a dad to two little girls makes it impossible to sit and do it all within a day or two like I would’ve been able to do a decade ago.

[Lysander]

Outstanding work, sir!  Thank you @Frozen Tundra.

[Frozen Tundra]

9 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Outstanding work, sir!  Thank you @Frozen Tundra.

This research had me wishing 1A had 32 teams. I was drooling at how much better 5A looks. Wouldn’t be beneficial to my Columbus East Olympians these days though. 😂

[oldtimeqb]

55 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Sectional 24 (8): Boonville, Evansville Bosse, Evansville Memorial, Gibson Southern, Jasper, Mt. Vernon (Posey), Vincennes Lincoln, Washington

Oh be still my heart. This sectional would be amazing. 

Kudos and thanks for the overall work!

 

[BendNotBreak]

Also..  nice job!  Thinking Heritage Hills would like it... Gibson Southern ... not so much... 🤔

[tango]

10 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Oh be still my heart. This sectional would be amazing. 

Kudos and thanks for the overall work!

 

Yes it would. 

[Just a dad]

So now who has a contact at the IHSAA and can share this with them? Outstanding work, btw

[Irishman]

Great work @Frozen Tundra Love seeing posters dig into things like this here. 

This was actually a plan under consideration when we expanded to 6 classes. While the raw numbers look significant in what was 5A at the time, the math showed the greatest disparity in enrollment numbers was actually in 1A. I don’t know of an answer as to why it did not happen though. 

[Just a dad]

So I will take on the project (for fun) of seeding all of the teams according to their current calpreps overall state ranking. I’ll then post the hypothetical brackets according to @Frozen Tundra’s work from above. If I feel extra goofy I’ll run the games through their matchup predictor and post results for each round of the playoffs. Sectionals on Monday, Regionals on Tuesday, semi state on Wed and State on Thursday. I should have the seeded brackets up tonight 

[foxbat]

16 hours ago, kdets89 said:

I appreciate the amount of work that went into this, and I agree with this in concept.

Let me be the first to suggest:  Move Lutheran out of this version of 1A.

Not really a reason to move them out, IMO.  SF would take care of them in a two-year span anyway ... if not before as Lutheran's headed to current 2A anyway via SF.  That way, you just let things play themselves out via the guidelines.  Realistically, there's very little chance that Lutheran would slide back down to 1A in this scenario anyway if SF stays in place ... small chance they would head back down to 1A under the current organization too unless the IHSAA gets cute and sticks them in the same sectional with LCC ala Chatard - Roncalli. 

 

16 hours ago, WWFan said:

I personally think it waters down 1A way too much. Lutheran would be bored. LCC would be too when they come back down. Are Lutheran and Springs Valley the only current ranked teams that would still be in 1A? Might as well go back to 5 classes. 

LCC wouldn't likely be coming down even under a 32-team 1A scenario.  They are currently, without a 32-team 1A ranked around #38.  With SF, LCC's likely to stay up in 2A, even under the proposed sectional scheme, with Carroll being the current spoiler to take them out of acquiring the two points needed to stay.  Again, even without SF, LCC would be 2A, under the proposed scheme, by enrollment.

 

17 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Earlier in the week, @Bobref started a thread titled "Sectional Draw 2023" and the thread kind of went a couple directions away from the intended purpose. One of those directions pertained to the notion that 6A and 1A should be the classifications with 32 teams rather than 6A and 5A. This topic interested me, and I decided to take a deep dive researching it. It took me about ten hours total over the course of several days to compile. I'm not saying this to get a pat on the back, but to help you understand I didn't just breeze through it without any deep thought or research.

Nevertheless, for this particular scenario, I compiled lists for 1A through 5A using the most recent enrollment numbers the IHSAA released (which was two years ago). I excluded 6A since it obviously wouldn't be affected by the change. In compiling the classification lists, the goal was to base it off this specific year's tournament in regard to the Fort Wayne Dwenger situation and the teams playing up due to the success factor. The 1A through 5A breakdown for this year's tournament is the following:

...

I hope you all find this information as interesting as I did. Does this information change your original opinion? Should 5A remain at 32 teams or should 1A have 32 teams instead? Feel free to provide your thoughts and share any ideas you have.

Very nice work on this!

[foxbat]

The Sectional of Death appears to be a force of nature.  The proposed Sectional 20 is pretty much just missing Brebeuf from Sectional 21 and/or Chatard from Sectional 22 to make it similar to the traditional Sectional of Death.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

3 hours ago, Just a dad said:

So I will take on the project (for fun) of seeding all of the teams according to their current calpreps overall state ranking. I’ll then post the hypothetical brackets according to @Frozen Tundra’s work from above. If I feel extra goofy I’ll run the games through their matchup predictor and post results for each round of the playoffs. Sectionals on Monday, Regionals on Tuesday, semi state on Wed and State on Thursday. I should have the seeded brackets up tonight 

This will be interesting

[superjay]

I’ve mentioned this before.  A bye week could really help out these smaller schools that have multiple 2 way players, smaller rosters, and limited resources in some situations.  Most 5A schools have all 1 way players and lots of resources.  I wish the IFCA would present this to the IHSAA!

[kdets89]

20 minutes ago, superjay said:

I’ve mentioned this before.  A bye week could really help out these smaller schools that have multiple 2 way players, smaller rosters, and limited resources in some situations.  Most 5A schools have all 1 way players and lots of resources.  I wish the IFCA would present this to the IHSAA!

Just make sure you have a week 9 game scheduled before a potential first round bye.  Two weeks off is a loooooong time.

[Just a dad]

So here we go. Each class will be in a separate post in case anyone wants to cut and paste and start individual threads per class. Have fun and be kind. 

5a:

      Sectional 9:

      Harrison (WL) #38 vs  East Chicago Central #309

      Lowell #129 vs Hammond Central # 169

      Hammond Morton #118 vs Munster #203

      McCutcheon #70 vs Gary West #219

 

     Sectional 10:

     Valpariso #20 vs South Bend Adams #160

     Hobart #54 vs Michigan City #61

     Mishawaka #30 vs Chesterton #102

     Merrillville #28 vs LaPort #141

 

     Sectional 11: 

     Northridge #68 vs Huntington North #229

     Columbia City #130 vs Logansport #179

     Concord #90 vs Goshen #200

     Kokomo #72 vs Plymouth #202

 

     Sectional 12:

     Ft Wayne Snyder #18 vs BYE

     Dekalb #125 vs Ft Wayne North #131

     Ft Wayne Wayne #109 vs Muncie Central #172

     New Haven #48 vs Ft Wayne South #202

 

     Sectional 13:

     New Palestine #19 vs Richmond #235

     Pendleton #46 vs Mt. Vernon #63 

     Roncalli #43 vs Attucks #181     

     Greenfield Central #32 vs Anderson #225

 

     Sectional 14:

     East Central #4 vs Jennings County #197

     Greenwood #82 vs Seymour #98

     Franklin #74 vs Shelbyville #137

     Whiteland #64 vs Columbus East #142

 

     Sectional 15:

     Bloomington North #15 vs Terre Haute North #235

     Plainfield #29 vs Martinsville #44

     Decatur Central #25 vs Mooresville #52

     Bloomington South #16 vs Terre Haute South #79

 

     Sectional 16: 

     Evansville Reitz #15 vs Evansville Central #215

     Floyd Central #57 vs Bedford North Lawrence #89

     Castle #50 vs New Albany #194   

     Evansville North #39 vs Evansville Harrison #198

 

 

 

[Just a dad]

4A:

     Sectional 17:

     Hanover Central #31 vs South Bend Clay #305

     South Bend St. Joseph #135 vs Kankakee #138

     South Bend Riley #107 vs Highland #214

     New Prairie #67 vs South Bend Washington #238

 

     Sectional 18: 

     Mishawaka Marian #30 vs Culver Academy #304

     Northwood #58 vs West Noble #84

     Leo #51 vs Wawasee #158

     East Noble #41 vs Angola #175

 

     Sectional 19:

     Mississinnewa #78 vs Belmont #247

     Yorktown #92 vs Norwell #146

     Delta #86 vs Marion #193

     Ft Wayne Dwenger #81 vs Jay County #196

 

     Sectional 20: 

     Guerin Catholic #37 vs Frankfort #275

     Peru #96 vs Lebanon #117

     West Lafayette #76 vs Twin Lakes #155

     Hamilton Heights #49 vs Western #167

 

     Sectional #21

     Brebeuf Jesuit #60 vs Indianapolis Washington #269

     Owen Valley #216 vs Crawfordsville #236

     Northview #94 vs Indianapolis Shortridge #240

     Danville #83 vs Edgewood #265

 

     Sectional 22:

     Indianapolis Chatard #6 vs Greensburg #264

     New Castle #154 vs Franklin #178

     Beech Grove #136 vs Rushville #185

     Batesville #47 vs Connersville #221

 

     Sectional 23: 

     Lawrenceburg #71 vs Corydon Central #292

     Charlestown #168 vs Silver Creek #184

     Madison #157 vs North Harrison #192

     South Dearborn #120 vs Scottsburg #222

 

     Sectional 24: 

     Gibson Southern #36 vs Washington #243

     Evansville Memorial #62 vs Evansville Bosse #108

     Vincennes Lincoln #59 vs Boonville #122

     Jasper #53 vs Mt Vernon (Posey)  #151

 

 

[Just a dad]

3A:

     Sectional 25:

     Rensselaer Central #174 vs Hammond Noll #301

     Griffith #249 vsBeton Central #256

     River Forest #228 vs Calumet #261

     Boone Grove #183 vs Whitig #282

 

     Section 26: 

     Tippecanoe Valley #35 vs Bremen #171

     John Glenn #124 vs Jimtown #139

     Rochester #115 vs Lakeland #140

     Knox #55 vs Fairfield #161

 

     Sectional 27:

     Fort Wayne Luers #93 vs Heritage #276

     Woodlan #230 vs Fort Wayne concordia #250

     Garrett #180 vs Manchester #262

     Bluffton #104 vs Wabash #267

 

     Sectioal 28:

     Alexandria Monroe #106 vs Blackford #307

     Oak Hill #165 vs #165 vs Eastbrook #189

     Maconaquah #159 vs Northwestern #226

     Eastern (Greentown) #153 vs Tipton #239

 

     Sectional 29: 

     Tri West #56 vs West Vigo #279

     North Montgomery #133 vs Southmont #145

     Greencastle #119 vs South Vermillion #147

     Western Boone #112 vs North Putnam #212

 

     Sectional 30: 

     Centerville #114 vs Christel House Manuel #300

     Speedway #152 vs Cardinal Ritter #204

     Heritage Christian #134 vs Frankton #205

     Lapel #116 vsPurdue Polytechnic #290

 

     Sectional 31:

     Triton Central #34 vs Brown County #308

     Brownstown Central #110 vs Cascade #128

     Indian Creek #97 vs Salem #258

     Monrovia #69 vs Mitchell #288

 

     Sectional 32: 

     Heritage Hills #45 vs Princeton #260

     Southridge #100 vs Evansville Mater Dei #132

     North Posey #77 vs Tell City #144

     Pike #66 vs Sullivan #149

[Just a dad]

2A

     Sectional 33:

     LaVille #103 vs North Newton #323

     Wheeler #177 vs Winamac #232

     North Judson #176 vs South Central (Union Mills) #274

     Andrean #121 vs Lake Station (Edisonn) #320

 

     Sectional 34:

     Adams Central #33 vs Bye 

     Central Noble #253 vs Churubusco #259

     South Adams #210 vs Whitko #303

     Eastside #173 vs Prairie Hts #314

 

     Sectional 35:

     Carroll #95 vs Covington #263

     Lewis Cass #191 vs Seeger #207

     Pioneer #163 vs Clinton Prairie #223

     Lafayette Central Catholic #101 vs Delphi #231

 

     Sectional 36:

     Winchester #150 vs BYE

     Madison-Grant #251 vs Elwood #293

     Monroe Central #241 vs Taylor #298

     Sheridan #188 vs BYE

 

     Sectional 37:

     Indianapolis Scecina #126 vs BYE

     Eastern Hancock #170 vs Shenandoah #254

     Covenant Christian #166 vs Knightstown #272

     Park Tudor #164 vs BYE

 

     Sectional 38:

     Milan #127 vs BYE

     Hagertown #211 vs Switerland Countyy #273

     North Decatur #195 vs Union City #318

     Northeastern #186 vs BYE

 

     Sectional 39:

     Linton-Stockton #87 vs BYE

     Eastern Greene #217 vs Riverton Parke #245

     North Knox #190 vs Parke Heritage #276

     South Putnam #113 vs Cloverdale #291          

 

     Sectional 40: 

     Providence #73 vs Crawford County #313

     Perry Central #213 vs Perry Central #213

     Forest Park #201 vs Eastern (Pekin) #246

     Paoli #123 vsClarksville #294