Harbaugh’s Hands Caught in Cookie Jar

[Coach Nowlin]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Meanwhile, Michigan is prohibited by the NCAA by-laws to say ANYTHING about an ongoing investigation so the story is clickbait/one-sided.  This is "journalism" in 2023.  Presumed guilt and consistent hit jobs/death by 1000 cuts without all of the facts.

Michigan is inching towards a new contract with Harbaugh (would have been done last week if it were not for "sign gate") so it doesn't seem they are too worried about any potential ramifications at this point.

You see, I am not making this about whether or not he will sign a new contract or not, I could care less, I also do not feel like its enough to fire "for cause". just another blemish to the great "Michigan Men" and their we can do no wrong that gets banter about around here and other interwebs.    

 

[Coach Nowlin]

@temptation  

Questions for you, as Michigan Fan

1.  What should be done for a penalty in this case, I think we can move past "if its true" 

2.  Should Head Coach be responsible for just himself, or his entire staff? 

Again, I do not believe this to be a "fireable offense" however, again, something that SHOULD tarnish the Michigan Man Legacy 

[temptation]

24 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

@temptation  

Questions for you, as Michigan Fan

1.  What should be done for a penalty in this case, I think we can move past "if its true" 

2.  Should Head Coach be responsible for just himself, or his entire staff? 

Again, I do not believe this to be a "fireable offense" however, again, something that SHOULD tarnish the Michigan Man Legacy 

1.  It all depends on what the head coach knew and when.  Both are not above punishment but..

a.  If the head coach knew and the university was FUNDING these trips then this should be an egregious level 1/2 violation.  No amount of bias can be inserted here on my part.

b.  If the staffer went “rogue” and was doing this on his own, then he should be fired immediately and a level 3 violation should be the penalty, maybe more for Harbaugh and/or the coaching staff.

I know many will laugh at the notion of option B but come on.  If this dude truly was roaming the sidelines in East Lansing (still unconfirmed) there is no way that Harbaugh or any of the higher-ups at Michigan would condone him doing so and sign off on it.  Hell, McElwain (CMU’s head coach) was on the UM staff midway through Harbaugh’s tenure and knows Stalions.

Option B is going to be Michigan’s play and it will outrage many.

2.  The HC is the CEO and should know what each member of his staff is doing at all times PROFESSIONALLY.  If you look up Stalions’ history, he is a lifetime Michigan “Superfan” and cut his teeth volunteering to get a job on the staff for years.  He wrote a 600+ page manifesto about taking the reins of Michigan football himself.  Guy has a few loose screws and is fairly delusional.

Harbaugh/the university will pay the price for this, it’s just a matter of how steep.  I don’t see anything happening this year.  
 

Now, it’s open season on Michigan football as the narrative has been painted and the pitchforks are out.  Many will gloss right over my statements above because they want blood.  The way this story has been painted nationally makes villains out of Michigan and while I am not insinuating that they deserve pity or sympathy, they do deserve due process.

I mean, in your own article linked above 1/3 of the coaches interviewed admitted they employed a “sign stealer” on their staff…and that’s assuming the other 2/3 were being honest.  This type of behavior is likely more widespread that folks want to admit it you or I even imagine.   

It’s an outdated rule.

Edited November 1, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

LOL, “Deadspin.”

it was supposed to be a little satire, but I can understand how that flew right by you.  

But would it be that shocking to see him bail to the NFL???  I don't think one bit.  

[temptation]

45 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

it was supposed to be a little satire, but I can understand how that flew right by you.  

But would it be that shocking to see him bail to the NFL???  I don't think one bit.  

Especially if he wins a title this year.

[Bash Riprock]

Big 10 coaches request Big 10 to take action against Michigan. 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

15 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

You see, I am not making this about whether or not he will sign a new contract or not, I could care less, I also do not feel like its enough to fire "for cause". just another blemish to the great "Michigan Men" and their we can do no wrong that gets banter about around here and other interwebs.    

 

Small percentage of the fan base.  Every fan base has em.

4 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Big 10 coaches request Big 10 to take action against Michigan. 

 

Michigan has not even received a notice of allegations from the NCAA and once they do they have 90 days to respond.

This is lunacy.

[Coach Nowlin]

17 hours ago, temptation said:

1.  It all depends on what the head coach knew and when.  Both are not above punishment but..

a.  If the head coach knew and the university was FUNDING these trips then this should be an egregious level 1/2 violation.  No amount of bias can be inserted here on my part.

b.  If the staffer went “rogue” and was doing this on his own, then he should be fired immediately and a level 3 violation should be the penalty, maybe more for Harbaugh and/or the coaching staff.

I know many will laugh at the notion of option B but come on.  If this dude truly was roaming the sidelines in East Lansing (still unconfirmed) there is no way that Harbaugh or any of the higher-ups at Michigan would condone him doing so and sign off on it.  Hell, McElwain (CMU’s head coach) was on the UM staff midway through Harbaugh’s tenure and knows Stalions.

Option B is going to be Michigan’s play and it will outrage many.

2.  The HC is the CEO and should know what each member of his staff is doing at all times PROFESSIONALLY.  If you look up Stalions’ history, he is a lifetime Michigan “Superfan” and cut his teeth volunteering to get a job on the staff for years.  He wrote a 600+ page manifesto about taking the reins of Michigan football himself.  Guy has a few loose screws and is fairly delusional.

Harbaugh/the university will pay the price for this, it’s just a matter of how steep.  I don’t see anything happening this year.  
 

Now, it’s open season on Michigan football as the narrative has been painted and the pitchforks are out.  Many will gloss right over my statements above because they want blood.  The way this story has been painted nationally makes villains out of Michigan and while I am not insinuating that they deserve pity or sympathy, they do deserve due process.

I mean, in your own article linked above 1/3 of the coaches interviewed admitted they employed a “sign stealer” on their staff…and that’s assuming the other 2/3 were being honest.  This type of behavior is likely more widespread that folks want to admit it you or I even imagine.   

It’s an outdated rule.

 

Appreciate the well thought out response and I do not argue with any of it seems to be spot on

 

one thing is true today world of Sports "scandals".  is that many folks indeed go Zero to 10000 as fast as possible, for instance a month or so ago, everyone was convinced the FBI raided Hallas Hall in Chicago because some slapdick with 5k twitter followers said he knew Peanut Tillman and it was true .........

Either way you look at it, Michigan is not coming out looking good in this case, whether they were culpable (you like my big word @Bobref ) or not 

 

 

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 

Appreciate the well thought out response and I do not argue with any of it seems to be spot on

 

one thing is true today world of Sports "scandals".  is that many folks indeed go Zero to 10000 as fast as possible, for instance a month or so ago, everyone was convinced the FBI raided Hallas Hall in Chicago because some slapdick with 5k twitter followers said he knew Peanut Tillman and it was true .........

Either way you look at it, Michigan is not coming out looking good in this case, whether they were culpable (you like my big word @Bobref ) or not 

 

 

People are wanting action based on EMOTIONS without the facts.  There is a process to these things.

I would also like to point out that most B10 teams stated they knew this was happening prior to the start of this season and having watched every second of Michigan football this season, they have seemed to figure out a solution....HUDDLE.

To pretend that Michigan is the only one stealing signs (whether illegally or not) is extremely shortsighted and the fact that they are laying it on people this season makes folks connect two dots that simply aren't there.

Notice the ONE B10 coach who said "they could have had every one of our signs and it would not have mattered, they are LOADED with NFL guys" quote is a footnote.

[Bash Riprock]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Small percentage of the fan base.  Every fan base has em.

Michigan has not even received a notice of allegations from the NCAA and once they do they have 90 days to respond.

This is lunacy.

it speaks volumes if one isn't respected by their peers in their own line of work.  When your peers are upset about cheating and ask the conference to do something, that is saying something.  

You can deflect, minimize, rationalize, blame others, etc., but.....

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

37 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

it speaks volumes if one isn't respected by their peers in their own line of work.  When your peers are upset about cheating and ask the conference to do something, that is saying something.  

You can deflect, minimize, rationalize, blame others, etc., but.....

I'll deflect some more...

Urban Meyer covered up domestic abuse from one of his staff members...

Mel Tucker sexually assaulted a woman over the phone...

Pete Carroll was handing out bags of cash and having sports marketing companies hire his players as interns...

But a low level staff member on Jim Harbaugh's staff paid to have interns film other team's signals with an iPhone...

Could list tons more.

 

All have landed/will land on their feet and are respected within the coaching community.  Spare me the "holier than thou" nonsense.  Its a dirty business.

 

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I'll deflect some more...

Urban Meyer covered up domestic abuse from one of his staff members...

Mel Tucker sexually assaulted a woman over the phone...

Pete Carroll was handing out bags of cash and having sports marketing companies hire his players as interns...

But a low level staff member on Jim Harbaugh's staff paid to have interns film other team's signals with an iPhone...

Could list tons more.

 

All have landed/will land on their feet and are respected within the coaching community.  Spare me the "holier than thou" nonsense.  Its a dirty business.

 

Comprehension is a challenge for you.  Then again, you're not interested in comprehension.

Your classic deflection retort..who's sins are worse?  BTW, the examples you provided....not all have landed back on their feet as respected in the coaching community.  Not even close.

Glad you were on the investigation team that fully knows the level of Jimmy boy's transgressions.

Thanks for proving my picture of you.

[temptation]

32 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Comprehension is a challenge for you.  Then again, you're not interested in comprehension.

Your classic deflection retort..who's sins are worse?  BTW, the examples you provided....not all have landed back on their feet as respected in the coaching community.  Not even close.

Glad you were on the investigation team that fully knows the level of Jimmy boy's transgressions.

Thanks for proving my picture of you.

I am not on the investigation team but is Michigan really dumb enough to sign the guy to an extension in the midst of receiving level 1 NCAA violations?  Come on.  The truth is somewhere in the middle and the Michigan lawyers, university personnel and athletic administration obviously feels confident in their case.

You let your dislike for me and Michigan get in the way of common sense.   

[Bash Riprock]

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

I am not on the investigation team but is Michigan really dumb enough to sign the guy to an extension in the midst of receiving level 1 NCAA violations?  Come on.  The truth is somewhere in the middle and the Michigan lawyers, university personnel and athletic administration obviously feels confident in their case.

You let your dislike for me and Michigan get in the way of common sense.   

Another road you need to stop traveling on.  I don't have enough emotional investment to like or dislike you.  I don't like the way you come off on this forum...but that's behavior.  

Michigan is in a pickle...it is and always has been about money.  Michigan is no different...and they will take the hit on their brand if it means winning, because winning means cash...and that's a shame.  You should expect more.  But perhaps your expectations are much lower than I realize.  You tend to criticize others, while justifying the inappropriate actions of your own teams.  Its a real credibility hit.

You probably think the numerous coaches reaching out to the Big 10 commissioner asking for action, as well teams contacting TCU about sign stealing last season as a conspiracy.  Did you actually read the article I shared about the Big 10 coaches and why sign stealing is a big deal?  My guess is that you didn't.

Know any fans like this?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Another road you need to stop traveling on.  I don't have enough emotional investment to like or dislike you.  I don't like the way you come off on this forum...but that's behavior.  

Michigan is in a pickle...it is and always has been about money.  Michigan is no different...and they will take the hit on their brand if it means winning, because winning means cash...and that's a shame.  You should expect more.  But perhaps your expectations are much lower than I realize.  You tend to criticize others, while justifying the inappropriate actions of your own teams.  Its a real credibility hit.

You probably think the numerous coaches reaching out to the Big 10 commissioner asking for action, as well teams contacting TCU about sign stealing last season as a conspiracy.  Did you actually read the article I shared about the Big 10 coaches and why sign stealing is a big deal?  My guess is that you didn't.

Know any fans like this?

You follow me around on this board like a dog on a leash.  Your disdain for me is obvious...you claim to not care either way about Michigan yet YOU start these threads and here we are...page 8.  Have you seen me participate in the NFL thread?  The Colts thread?  The Bears thread?  No, because I legitimately DO NOT care.  Your obsession with "putting me in my place" and taking the antagonist argument over my every statement is borderline creepy.

I am not an alumnus nor do I donate to the university so my expectations are meaningless.  College athletics is all about the money, stop kidding yourself.  You call it deflecting, but no one is clean and there are programs out there (just look at recent national champions in both sports for starters) that are dirty as hell.  You call it deflecting...I call it reality.

You are emotional.  I get it.  So are the B10 coaches who are getting their asses kicked by Michigan.  If you scroll through the 8 pages of content on here, I have stated more than once that two things can be true at the same time.

1.  Michigan/Harbaugh could be guilty as hell and if so, they deserve punishment.

2.  Due process and a fair chance to let the process play out is also the name of the game.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by temptation

[Coach Nowlin]

Remember when we all just made fun of Harbaugh and Michigan for whining bout Purdue Locker Room?

[Bash Riprock]

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

You follow me around on this board like a dog on a leash.  Your disdain for me is obvious...you claim to not care either way about Michigan yet YOU start these threads and here we are...page 8.  Have you seen me participate in the NFL thread?  The Colts thread?  The Bears thread?  No, because I legitimately DO NOT care.  Your obsession with "putting me in my place" and taking the antagonist argument over my every statement is borderline creepy.

I am not an alumnus nor do I donate to the university so my expectations are meaningless.  College athletics is all about the money, stop kidding yourself.  You call it deflecting, but no one is clean and there are programs out there (just look at recent national champions in both sports for starters) that are dirty as hell.  You call it deflecting...I call it reality.

You are emotional.  I get it.  So are the B10 coaches who are getting their asses kicked by Michigan.  If you scroll through the 8 pages of content on here, I have stated more than once that two things can be true at the same time.

1.  Michigan/Harbaugh could be guilty as hell and if so, they deserve punishment.

2.  Due process and a fair chance to let the process play out is also the name of the game.

 

Its tough not to have to deal with you on GID, you stick your nose and mouth into everything carrying the tone of the upmost expert.  I am the one that started this thread.  You came in...not the other way around.  

Let me repeat again, and again and....I have no feelings for you one way or another, but that cannot penetrate your skull.  I just don't agree with so much of the fodder you spread on GID, and I know that is tough for your ego.  So, you make it personal about "feelings".  Very strange.  Very weak approach to take.

I am not a fan of people that cheat, nor those that rationalize it.  Maybe that's why I take such issue with your views.  Whether you agree or not, this is strike 2 for Michigan this year.  I agree they deserve due process...but I don't discount what Big 10 coaches and TCU staff have to say about this issue...the latter having zero stake in the game.

You believe the way you wish...I shall do the same.

 

[gonzoron]

[Bash Riprock]

5 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

love it!!!

[temptation]

51 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Its tough not to have to deal with you on GID, you stick your nose and mouth into everything carrying the tone of the upmost expert.  I am the one that started this thread.  You came in...not the other way around.  

Let me repeat again, and again and....I have no feelings for you one way or another, but that cannot penetrate your skull.  I just don't agree with so much of the fodder you spread on GID, and I know that is tough for your ego.  So, you make it personal about "feelings".  Very strange.  Very weak approach to take.

I am not a fan of people that cheat, nor those that rationalize it.  Maybe that's why I take such issue with your views.  Whether you agree or not, this is strike 2 for Michigan this year.  I agree they deserve due process...but I don't discount what Big 10 coaches and TCU staff have to say about this issue...the latter having zero stake in the game.

You believe the way you wish...I shall do the same.

 

Fair enough.

[temptation]

Somewhere James Franklin and Ryan Day are spitting nails after giving up a combined 670 rushing yards to Michigan last year.

”They were cheating.”

(Sounds like two guys who know they are in danger of losing their jobs to me.)

Edited November 2, 2023 by temptation

[Bobref]

And now, everybody Michigan has played in the last few years is coming out with this kind of crap:

https://www.onefootdown.com/2023/11/2/23943373/notre-dame-football-so-were-pretty-sure-michigan-cheated-against-the-irish-in-2019-conor-stalions-nd
 

Notre Dame Football: So... we’re pretty sure Michigan cheated against the Irish in 2019

Remember going “wth?” on a rainy October night in Ann Arbor? 

By Joshua Vowles@TheSubwayDomer  Nov 2, 2023, 10:46am EDT  

10 Comments / 10 New

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Photo by Scott W. Grau/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images

 

The ongoing scandal involving the Michigan Wolverines and the cheating operation of Conor Stalions has almost completely overtaken the college football conversation over the last couple of weeks — and for good reason. 

If only half of what is being alleged turns out to be true, then this is truly one of the greatest scandals in college football history. What’s frustrating for fans right now, is that we are in the middle of a season and Michigan is in fantastic shape to make the college football playoff despite evidence that has been put forth about this cheating happening this year (like Stalions being on the Central Michigan sideline in sunglasses in the Chips night game against the Michigan State Spartans). 

The College Football Playoff Committee is taking a pass on doing anything about Michigan’s actions, and passing the buck onto the NCAA. The Big Ten coaches, however, have no intention of being patient about any of this and expressed a desire for the conference to do something right away.

So... what does any of this have to do with Notre Dame this year? Not much (that we know of) as the Irish took themselves out of playoff contention down in Louisville a few weeks ago. This scandal, however, goes back years — including the last time Notre Dame played Michigan back in 2019. 

Remember that 2019 game in Ann Arbor? Remember how the Irish couldn’t do a damn thing right offensively? Well... there may be a very good reason for that besides poor bye week preparation.

This story is absolutely insane and only gets crazier with each passing day.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bobref

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And now, everybody Michigan has played in the last few years is coming out with this kind of crap:

https://www.onefootdown.com/2023/11/2/23943373/notre-dame-football-so-were-pretty-sure-michigan-cheated-against-the-irish-in-2019-conor-stalions-nd
 

Notre Dame Football: So... we’re pretty sure Michigan cheated against the Irish in 2019

Remember going “wth?” on a rainy October night in Ann Arbor? 

By Joshua Vowles@TheSubwayDomer  Nov 2, 2023, 10:46am EDT  

10 Comments / 10 New

Share this story

• Share this on Facebook (opens in new window)
• Share this on Twitter (opens in new window)
• SHAREAll sharing options

 

Photo by Scott W. Grau/Icon Sportswire via Getty Images

 

The ongoing scandal involving the Michigan Wolverines and the cheating operation of Conor Stalions has almost completely overtaken the college football conversation over the last couple of weeks — and for good reason. 

If only half of what is being alleged turns out to be true, then this is truly one of the greatest scandals in college football history. What’s frustrating for fans right now, is that we are in the middle of a season and Michigan is in fantastic shape to make the college football playoff despite evidence that has been put forth about this cheating happening this year (like Stalions being on the Central Michigan sideline in sunglasses in the Chips night game against the Michigan State Spartans). 

The College Football Playoff Committee is taking a pass on doing anything about Michigan’s actions, and passing the buck onto the NCAA. The Big Ten coaches, however, have no intention of being patient about any of this and expressed a desire for the conference to do something right away.

So... what does any of this have to do with Notre Dame this year? Not much (that we know of) as the Irish took themselves out of playoff contention down in Louisville a few weeks ago. This scandal, however, goes back years — including the last time Notre Dame played Michigan back in 2019. 

Remember that 2019 game in Ann Arbor? Remember how the Irish couldn’t do a damn thing right offensively? Well... there may be a very good reason for that besides poor bye week preparation.

This story is absolutely insane and only gets crazier with each passing day.

What was the final score of that one Bob?

[Footballking16]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

I am not on the investigation team but is Michigan really dumb enough to sign the guy to an extension in the midst of receiving level 1 NCAA violations?  Come on.  The truth is somewhere in the middle and the Michigan lawyers, university personnel and athletic administration obviously feels confident in their case.

You let your dislike for me and Michigan get in the way of common sense.   

I’m sure there’s specific language in whatever contract he signs that gives Michigan an out if the NCAA lays down the law.

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

What was the final score of that one Bob?

Such that alleged “sign-stealing” could not have been even a small factor. That’s why I referred to it as crap. But you know the meatheads are going to say that, and not just at ND.