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Harbaugh’s Hands Caught in Cookie Jar


Bash Riprock

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31 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Guess UM heard from the Big 10 Saturday and has until Weds to respond.....looks like they are saying Harbaugh not linked to the scandal.  Looks like they have their scapegoat with Scalions...note reference below that Stalions is believed to have used up to 65 associates to scout games.  Will be interesting if we ever learned who was directing and funding him in these efforts.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2023/11/06/michigan-big-ten-disciplinary-action-sign-stealing/71474290007/

https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-ncaa-revealed-michigan-findings-to-big-ten-conference-mulling-jim-harbaugh-suspension-212327599.html'

Big Ten commissioner Tony Petitti’s pursuit of potential penalties against Harbaugh is the latest chapter in an ongoing saga that has gripped the college football world. Michigan, 9-0 and No. 3 in the College Football Playoff rankings, travels to Penn State on Saturday for a top-10 meeting in what will be, by far, the Wolverines’ toughest test of the year so far.

Michigan athletic director Warde Manuel is skipping out on his duties with the College Football Playoff committee this week so he can focus on the school's response to the investigation.

Michigan’s sign-stealing scheme, reported first on Oct. 19 by Yahoo Sports, is believed to be an elaborate multi-year endeavor to scout and record opponents’ play-call signals. At the center of the scheme is a former low-level analyst, Connor Stalions, who failed to cooperate with NCAA investigators last week and was dismissed, according to sources. The school announced Friday that he resigned.

Stalions is believed to have used as many as 65 associates to scout games, sources tell Yahoo Sports. While sign-stealing is not against NCAA rules, scouting a future opponent’s game is, as well as using recording devices to document signals.

In just his eighth month as commissioner, Petitti has faced internal pressure from league coaches and administrators to take action against the Wolverines before the NCAA investigation has completed. The organization, only in the third week of its investigation, is treating this probe differently, accelerating matters as well as sharing information with the conference.

NCAA agrees…

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10096357-report-ncaa-findings-dont-link-michigans-jim-harbaugh-to-sign-stealing-allegations
 

Also, scroll up…Is trading signals weekly and having a spreadsheet with another school’s signs and corresponding play calls “advanced scouting?”

Michigan has receipts and will be sharing screenshots shortly…tonight’s news was just the tip of the iceberg.

Ryan Walters, lol.  McCarthy wore a wristband for the first time in his career Saturday night.  Dude tried to make himself a victim and is one of the ring leaders…parlayed his skills into a head gig at Purdue and coincidentally, Illinois now sucks, lol.

Glass houses.

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1 hour ago, Grover said:

I don’t care at all what comes of it but there’s zero chance Harbaugh was unaware. 

Right now the major hurdle facing Harbaugh has shifted to him not knowing Stalions was possibly on the sideline for the CMU/MSU game.  That has not been confirmed yet but is gaining traction.

THAT is the text book definition of “advanced in-game scouting” though a major detail is rumored to have been left out of that story thus far.

It sounds like Michigan is willing to pay the price for that one if confirmed…and there is precedent (Baylor) for this infraction.

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It looks like McCarthy is losing at least one Heisman vote due to Harbaugh's cheating:  https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2023/11/07/michigans-sign-stealing-scandal-should-end-jj-mccarthys-heisman-shot/71371439007/

Quote

The first rule of Heisman Trophy voting is you don’t talk about Heisman Trophy voting. This is a serious and volatile undertaking, like “Fight Club” only with more anger, and a Heisman voter who betrays the wishes of the Heisman Trophy Trust runs the risk of losing his or her vote. Or my vote, in this instance, because I’m going to talk about Heisman Trophy voting.

Not to identify the three players who will be named on my vote, but to name one player who will not:

Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy.

Am I grandstanding for attention? Some people will think that – as if it’s fun to be here on this island, to arrive here by choice just so Michigan fans can come after me with all the meanness they can muster.

No, the reason for this story – and this feels harsh, even as I type these words, though I’ll explain more as we go – is to show other Heisman voters the way. Or at least, show them one way, a way that upholds the first sentence of the Heisman Trophy Trust’s mission statement:

“The Heisman Trophy Trust’s mission is to grow the legacy and preserve the integrity of the Heisman Memorial Trophy, which is…” And so forth and so on.

Note the seven most important words in that sentence:

… and preserve the integrity of the Heisman…

This story is not an indictment of Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy, who has done nothing wrong. To the best of my knowledge, anyway, though let’s be honest: People involved with this story have been lying since it broke. The benefit of the doubt is extended only to those who have earned it. The Michigan football program, led by one Michigan Man in particular, has sacrificed any claim to that benefit. Since this story broke Oct. 19, and as it has escalated, Michigan has earned only doubt.

....

McCarthy seems like a nice young man – love the way he “crowns” teammates after they score – and you don’t have to be a Michigan fan to wonder if it’s unfair to him to be left off the Heisman ballot. But ask yourself this:

Is it fair to Washington’s Michael Penix Jr. or Oregon’s Bo Nix or Florida State’s Jordan Travis or LSU’s Jayden Daniels – is it fair to any Heisman contender – to be left off the ballot to make room for the quarterback at Michigan? Where his coaches knew what the opposing defense was doing before the play?

Of course that’s not fair.

If J.J. McCarthy is an innocent victim of Michigan’s cheating scheme, well, don’t complain to me about leaving him off my ballot. Take it to the Michigan Man who betrayed the Michigan quarterback.

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Anytime you hold an opposing view of Doyel, you know you’re doing something right…

(Also, “Harbaugh’s cheating” is factually inaccurate as of this moment.)

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On 11/7/2023 at 5:50 AM, Grover said:

I don’t care at all what comes of it but there’s zero chance Harbaugh was unaware. 

Unaware that Stallions was recording or unaware that he was on the sideline of the CMU/Michigan State game? Personally, i'm no Michigan apologist, but I think it's worth noting that Stallions was somewhat of a psycho who wrote a 600 page manifesto about becoming the head man of the Michigan program. I don think it's out of the question to think he went above and beyond in a rogue way to handle the deliverables assigned to him. 

Personally, this whole story seems "meh" to me and I have skin in the game that possibly favors the Bears if this pushes Harbaugh  to the NFL. Any game we watch on a Saturday afternoon has teams with elaborate communication signs on the sidelines. Multiple sign signalers, poster boards, etc. They're not alll doing it because of Michigan. At this point I'm more intersted in knowing how much of an advantage a team actually gets from uncoding a teams signs. At the end of the day players still have to execute. 

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28 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Unaware that Stallions was recording or unaware that he was on the sideline of the CMU/Michigan State game? Personally, i'm no Michigan apologist, but I think it's worth noting that Stallions was somewhat of a psycho who wrote a 600 page manifesto about becoming the head man of the Michigan program. I don think it's out of the question to think he went above and beyond in a rogue way to handle the deliverables assigned to him. 

Personally, this whole story seems "meh" to me and I have skin in the game that possibly favors the Bears if this pushes Harbaugh  to the NFL. Any game we watch on a Saturday afternoon has teams with elaborate communication signs on the sidelines. Multiple sign signalers, poster boards, etc. They're not alll doing it because of Michigan. At this point I'm more intersted in knowing how much of an advantage a team actually gets from uncoding a teams signs. At the end of the day players still have to execute. 

A level headed take...

"Either everyone is guilty or no one is."

Communication in the helmets in 2024, move on.

 

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2 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Unaware that Stallions was recording or unaware that he was on the sideline of the CMU/Michigan State game? Personally, i'm no Michigan apologist, but I think it's worth noting that Stallions was somewhat of a psycho who wrote a 600 page manifesto about becoming the head man of the Michigan program. I don think it's out of the question to think he went above and beyond in a rogue way to handle the deliverables assigned to him. 

Personally, this whole story seems "meh" to me and I have skin in the game that possibly favors the Bears if this pushes Harbaugh  to the NFL. Any game we watch on a Saturday afternoon has teams with elaborate communication signs on the sidelines. Multiple sign signalers, poster boards, etc. They're not alll doing it because of Michigan. At this point I'm more intersted in knowing how much of an advantage a team actually gets from uncoding a teams signs. At the end of the day players still have to execute. 

Biggest question: Who fronted this operation? Could be that Stallions "went rogue" but hard to believe he did it on his own dime. Michigan is more than likely culpable given somebody from that institution or athletic department reimbursed Stallions financially and find it even harder to believe Harbaugh knew nothing about it. He may have not directly asked Stallions to set up a sophisticated espionage scheme, but I hardly doubt he turned down any useful information. 

At the end of the day, this single l incident is a minor violation. But it's magnified considering Michigan and Harbaugh are already under NCAA investigation into a completely different set of infractions. It doesn't help that Michigan and Harbaugh continue to play dumb and act like they knew nothing about what was going on. 

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https://deadspin.com/ryan-day-michigan-sign-stealing-harbaugh-stalions-1850999868

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After Jim Harbaugh, the college football coach with the most to lose in the Michigan sign-stealing scandal is Ohio State’s Ryan Day. Coaching the Buckeyes comes with insane expectations, and there have been grumblings about Day’s last two losses against its most hated rival, the team’s physicality, and anything else entitled OSU fans can think to grumble about.

While it’s fair to blame Connor Stalions for the Buckeyes’ no-shows, that’s not an excuse for losing. There are questions about how long Stalions had been scouting opponents in person, with a Big Ten source alleging the scheme was as advanced as it is unsettling.

“This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots — it’s both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there’s allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game. If it was just an in-game situation, that’s different. Going and filming somewhere you’re not supposed to be. It’s illegal. It’s too much of an advantage.”

Alright, if it were that bad, then other Big Ten coaches would have heard about it, which is what happened.

“We were told to be careful because they had a guy who could pick plays,” one Big Ten head coach told Yahoo Sports. “It was too late in the week to change our signals, but another staff did tell us about [Stalions].”

That, to me, damns other Big Ten coaches almost as much as Harbaugh. The Houston Astros’ sign-stealing is top of mind because MLB clubs were onto Houston long before the league officially got involved, and smart teams tried to mitigate the Stros’ “uncanny” scouting.

The Washington Nationals constantly changed their signs during the 2019 World Series while the Yankees needed to be informed of malfeasance before attempting to combat it. Well, Jose Altuve, Alex Bregman, and Carlos Correa wait for no one, and New York is still waiting on another trip to the World Series.

That’s where Day and Ohio State come in. No one in Columbus thought it was weird that CJ Stroud looked like a shell of himself against U-M, and nobody else? The guy is resetting NFL record books for rookie quarterbacks and torched Georgia’s defense for 348 yards and four TDs, but he couldn’t find an open receiver against a Wolverine defense that got torn apart by TCU?

Day strikes me as a brilliant offensive mind, and a really good head coach; he’s a big reason why the expectations at Ohio State stay in the stratosphere. At the same time, there might be a little naivete because his success comes so effortlessly.

While we have no idea how long Stalions’s operation went on, or to what extent, the Wolverines didn’t start steamrolling through the Big Ten until 2021. You think ol’ Dad Pants didn’t feel his seat getting hot? They were 2-4 in the COVID year.

“Flaming out at your alma mater” is the kind of pressure that forces desperation. If you’ve never been squarely in the sights of your naysayers, which hasn’t really happened to Day yet, I can see why there’d be an assumption of integrity.

That’s not reality though, and there’s too much at stake to assume your opponent is playing fair just because you are. Those two Ls to Michigan arguably cost Stroud the top spot in the NFL draft and a Heisman, but they cost Ohio State more.

With a win in 2022, the Buckeyes would’ve avoided a first-round matchup against reigning champ Georgia in the College Football Playoff. Beat Michigan in 2021, and they take their spot in the CFP. Competitiveness is not the same as ruthlessness, and — justified or not — winning a national title takes as much of the latter as it does the former.

 

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Biggest question: Who fronted this operation? Could be that Stallions "went rogue" but hard to believe he did it on his own dime. Michigan is more than likely culpable given somebody from that institution or athletic department reimbursed Stallions financially and find it even harder to believe Harbaugh knew nothing about it. He may have not directly asked Stallions to set up a sophisticated espionage scheme, but I hardly doubt he turned down any useful information. 

At the end of the day, this single l incident is a minor violation. But it's magnified considering Michigan and Harbaugh are already under NCAA investigation into a completely different set of infractions. It doesn't help that Michigan and Harbaugh continue to play dumb and act like they knew nothing about what was going on. 

Thus far ZERO has been traced back to Harbaugh or the athletic department.  If that changes, I'll be the first to report it and demand action.

 

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8 minutes ago, temptation said:

Thus far ZERO has been traced back to Harbaugh or the athletic department.  If that changes, I'll be the first to report it and demand action.

 

My thoughts as well. Either prove there was a trace back to Harbaugh knowing of the extreme lengths Scallion was going to acquire his knowledge or move on. And while you're at it ask Ohio State and Rutgers why they used an electronic device to notify Purdue in 2022 of signs their actual coaches picked up on during live game action. 

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6 hours ago, temptation said:

A level headed take...

"Either everyone is guilty or no one is."

Communication in the helmets in 2024, move on.

 

How about this response to the WETZEL article 

 

https://x.com/TheBigTenHuddle/status/1722274136716931110?s=20

 

 

After reviewing the recent opinion piece by @DanWetzel titled, "Either everyone's guilty, or no one is," I believe Dan got a few things wrong that I would like to address:

1. "In the end, they both stole, or participated in the stealing of, the same thing — information on opponents' play signals in an effort to secure an advantage." - Dan Wetzel To determine that Michigan stole the same thing that Purdue did is completely asinine. Michigan obtained video that they could review and sync up with a TV copy of the game and All 22 film. This would be reviewed repeatedly for hours, being rewound and played back at various speeds. Purdue was given information from coaches about what they saw and believed to be correct. This information must be trusted by the giver of information and cannot be reviewed and checked.

2. "It's just that one was a ski mask bank robbery. The other was an inside job, cleanly wiring the money to the Caribbean." - Dan Wetzel Also untrue is the notion that the stolen information was sent through already with no error after one contest. Connor Stalions had plans to gain information to review 8 Ohio State games this year. For these two things to be even remotely equivalent, Purdue would have needed nearly every Big Ten team that faced Michigan to agree to give them information about their signs.

3. "Whatever it is, just make it even, because the actions of Connor Stalions and the actions that Ohio State, Rutgers, and Purdue allegedly engaged in are the exact same thing." - Dan Wetzel Ohio State, Rutgers, and Purdue did not steal signs from their opponent illegally, and sharing notes from one game each amongst one another is not against any rule. Connor Stalions paid and incentivized others to gain video of multiple coaches every week. The amount of what they did, what they obtained, and what methods they used have no similarities.

4. "So in the Big Ten Championship Game, both teams had the other’s signals, both of which were gathered via advanced scouting." - Dan Wetzel The term, "advanced scouting" does not appear once in the NCAA bylaws. Off-campus in-person scouting is prohibited, and the intent of the person relaying information should be recognized. Ohio State and Rutgers coaches allegedly had the intent of stealing signs for that game. Once that information has been obtained, there are no rules against sharing information amongst staffs. If one staff was paid by another to share information, that is another story, but as of right now, we do not have any indication that these signs were not shared for financial gain.
5. "Which would you rather have? Raw cell phone footage that still needs to be broken down, or highly experienced coaches just handing over their work?' - Dan Wetzel Although this has nothing to do with the rules and is just an unrelated opinion question, Dan's downplay of the value of video recordings is misguided at best. If stealing signs were easy in every football match, there would be no need for what Connor Stalions did. However, the environment of a loud stadium, emotions, and other various duties are improperly compared to sitting in a quiet office reviewing film, which, as I stated earlier, can be rewound, slowed, and played repeatedly. If a recording is the same or worse than what coaches get on the field, why do coaches watch All 22 film? It's simple. It is not the same or better than the value of a recording. And even if the recording is low quality, it still can be rendered and improved.

6. "Even if Ohio State and Rutgers acquired Michigan signs via NCAA-legal game film or during game action, it doesn’t matter. Purdue didn’t do that work. The Boilermakers received stolen signs from advanced scouting. They cheated as much as Michigan." - Dan Wetzel Dan is just repeating himself here and using the same wording and reasoning that was easily disproved earlier.

7. "Additionally, the Purdue person receiving the advanced scouting work was almost assuredly, at the very least, an assistant coach. The NCAA investigation, sources say, hasn’t found any proof anyone in Ann Arbor knew how Stalions got so good at deciphering signs. He apparently hid his act." - Dan Wetzel Wow, a lot of speculation and assumed information here that is a poor excuse for journalism.

8. "So why is the NCAA aggressively investigating Michigan but not Purdue and the others? Why is the Big Ten threatening to suspend Harbaugh indefinitely but doesn’t seem to care about anyone else?" - Dan Wetzel Because Jim Harbaugh's staff clearly broke the rules, and there are no rulings stating what the three schools did to be against them.

9. "All we know is some still-unidentified entity hired a still-unidentified private investigator to uncover Stalions' antics in the hopes that the NCAA and the Big Ten would do exactly what they did — fall for the okey doke and naively overreact." - Dan Wetzel We don't know this, and Dan makes an immature accusation with little to no basis. The fact these words are even in this opinion piece should relinquish all of its credibility.

10. "Charlie Baker has been NCAA president since March. Tony Petitti has been Big Ten Commissioner since May. Neither has much experience with this stuff — Baker was a politician, Petitti mostly a television executive." - Dan Wetzel Both were hired and met the qualifications for their jobs. To question their previous employment is ridiculous.

11. "Mostly they listened to football coaches who view one kind of advanced scouting as gamesmanship, and another as a kind of crime. The coaches’ reasoning? Sending around stolen signs and game plans is common practice, so they don’t care. What Connor Stalions did is apparently not so common, so they did care." - Dan Wetzel Charlie Baker was never reported to have been in these meetings with the Big Ten coaches. There is no evidence of the allegations that Tony Petitti had no original thought and folded to the pressure. If anything, reports were made that he disagreed and attempted to calm down the coaches. Yes, this is unprecedented cheating. Obviously, there will be strong reactions.

12. "Football coaches are rarely deep thinkers. They aren’t spending time contemplating law, precedent, ethics or unintended consequences. They just want Jim Harbaugh gone." - Dan Wetzel There are no studies that support this claim, and this is also not their job. 13. "But the same crime is still the same crime, and if anyone took a moment to do their actual job, they’d realize it." - Dan

Wetzel Purdue did not break the same rules. Purdue did not break any rules.

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3 hours ago, temptation said:

Thus far ZERO has been traced back to Harbaugh or the athletic department.  If that changes, I'll be the first to report it and demand action.

 

 

3 hours ago, Boilernation said:

My thoughts as well. Either prove there was a trace back to Harbaugh knowing of the extreme lengths Scallion was going to acquire his knowledge or move on. And while you're at it ask Ohio State and Rutgers why they used an electronic device to notify Purdue in 2022 of signs their actual coaches picked up on during live game action. 

Has there been any credible reporting of what happened to the information Stalions and his minions obtained through their “advance scouting?” I assume he wasn’t using it to play fantasy football. 

 

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4 hours ago, Boilernation said:

My thoughts as well. Either prove there was a trace back to Harbaugh knowing of the extreme lengths Scallion was going to acquire his knowledge or move on. And while you're at it ask Ohio State and Rutgers why they used an electronic device to notify Purdue in 2022 of signs their actual coaches picked up on during live game action. 

Definitely not remotely close to being the same deal. The NCAA explicitly states that off-campus, in-game scouting is strictly prohibited. Two programs sharing info on a common opponent is a form of gamesmanship and is widely practiced nor is it an NCAA violation.

The issue isn't the fact that Michigan stole signals, it's the method in which they stole them. 

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So, it turns out that Ohio State is not the snitch. But who is?

https://www.on3.com/news/ohio-state-ryan-day-no-known-connections-michigan-sign-stealing-scandal/#

Michigan sign-stealing allegations: NCAA notifies Big Ten no connection between Ryan Day, family with investigation

On3 imageby:Griffin McVeigh11/06/23

griffin_mcveigh

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According to Ross Dellenger of Yahoo!, there are “no known connections” between Ohio State head coach Ryan Day, his family, and the private investigation firm looking into the Michigan sign-stealing scandal. The NCAA was the one to notify the Big Ten of the news on Monday afternoon.

“The NCAA notified the Big Ten on Monday that there are no known connections between Ohio State head coach Ryan Day or his family and the conference’s investigation into Michigan, senior officials at both the association and conference told Yahoo Sports,” Dellenger said in his report.

A report from The Washington Post stated an “outside firm” provided information to the NCAA about Michigan stealing signs, bringing this scandal to light. Chris Balas of On3’s The Wolverine went to report that Day’s brother, Timothy, and someone associated with another one of his brothers, Christopher, were apparently central to the information becoming public. One apparently runs a private investigation firm in Manchester, New Hampshire, where Day is from.

Dellenger stated the Big Ten and Commissioner Tony Petitti sought clarity on the matter from the NCAA, only for it to be confirmed Day nor his family members had any kind of connection to the “outside firm.”

This is far from the last twist in the Michigan sign-stealing scandal but for now, the connection to Day, his family, and the Ohio State program has been put to rest.

 

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43 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So, it turns out that Ohio State is not the snitch. But who is?

https://www.on3.com/news/ohio-state-ryan-day-no-known-connections-michigan-sign-stealing-scandal/#

Michigan sign-stealing allegations: NCAA notifies Big Ten no connection between Ryan Day, family with investigation

On3 imageby:Griffin McVeigh11/06/23

griffin_mcveigh

 
Read In App
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
According to Ross Dellenger of Yahoo!, there are “no known connections” between Ohio State head coach Ryan Day, his family, and the private investigation firm looking into the Michigan sign-stealing scandal. The NCAA was the one to notify the Big Ten of the news on Monday afternoon.

“The NCAA notified the Big Ten on Monday that there are no known connections between Ohio State head coach Ryan Day or his family and the conference’s investigation into Michigan, senior officials at both the association and conference told Yahoo Sports,” Dellenger said in his report.

A report from The Washington Post stated an “outside firm” provided information to the NCAA about Michigan stealing signs, bringing this scandal to light. Chris Balas of On3’s The Wolverine went to report that Day’s brother, Timothy, and someone associated with another one of his brothers, Christopher, were apparently central to the information becoming public. One apparently runs a private investigation firm in Manchester, New Hampshire, where Day is from.

Dellenger stated the Big Ten and Commissioner Tony Petitti sought clarity on the matter from the NCAA, only for it to be confirmed Day nor his family members had any kind of connection to the “outside firm.”

This is far from the last twist in the Michigan sign-stealing scandal but for now, the connection to Day, his family, and the Ohio State program has been put to rest.

 

No “known connections”…come on Bob aren’t you a lawyer?

It’s leaking out.  The 30 for 30 will be fascinating.

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