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GB4

Las Vegas Raiders

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It looks like the Oakland Raiders will be moving to Las Vegas, Nevada. My only question is how will they handle the relocation? It will take time to build the stadium and UNLV stadium is only 35,000 capacity. All of this is if the other NFL owners approve, of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raiders-a-step-away-from-vegas-relocation-owner-calls-stadium-proud-new-home/?linkId=29957520

GB

Edited by GB4

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Las Vegas Taxpayers Could Be on the Hook for $750 Million to Fund NFL Stadium: http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/16/las-vegas-taxpayers-raiders-adelson

Quote

Las Vegas and Nevada taxpayers may soon be on the hook for a $750 million handout to a billionaire casino magnate's company, to build a stadium for the National Football League (NFL)'s Raiders and the University of Nevada-Las Vegas' football team.

The crony capitalist cabal known as the The Southern Nevada Tourism Infrastructure Committee—which ESPN describes as comprised of "casino leaders and elected officials"—voted unanimously to raise Las Vegas hotel taxes as a means of financing a brand-new domed stadium. The Raiders, who currently call Oakland (Calif.) home, will contribute far less at $500 million, while Sheldon Adelson, the billionaire casino owner and financier of failed political campaigns, will contribute $650 million through his Las Vegas Sands corporation.

But lest you think this epic infusion of public dollars to finance incredibly rich people's private vanity projects will eventually benefit the public, ESPN reports that "Officials with the Las Vegas Sands said they don't want to return any profits to the public because they would be making little or no money on the stadium." ESPN also noted that "The Las Vegas Sands said it would walk away from negotiations if the public put in less than $750 million, and the company fought to protect itself from any future taxes targeting the team."

 

So the public takes most of the risk but won't see the profits, because the casino corporation sees itself making "little or no money" on the project. (This sounds like a perverse inversion of the scene in Lost in America where Albert Brooks desperately tries to persuade the casino manager character played by Garry Marshall that giving money back to wiped-out gamblers would be good public relations for the casino).

In another instance of willful self-delusion, News3LV reports "The committee estimates almost 19,000 jobs will come from the construction of the stadium," a staggering number that will almost certainly never come close to being realized.

The committee's recommendation will now go to the governor and the state legislature for approval. Raiders owner Mark Davis expects the required two-thirds of NFL ownership will approve his team's move to Las Vegas if the stadium deal moves forward.

Watch Reason TV's doc on why you should never, ever, ever, ever publicly finance professional sports arenas below:

....

This is the very definition of a crony capitalist, public boondoggle project.   Amazing that the public just keeps on wanting to get fleeced.

 

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3 hours ago, Indieanapolis said:

So Vegas could have NHL and NFL teams now.

The NHL team is going to have a terrible and bland name.

GB 

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It's official.

GB 

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My guess is that they will play one more season in Oakland and adjust UNLV's old stadium to hold the Raiders. I have read the NFL has done studies on how to make that work and many believe they can make it work by the start of the 2018 season.

GB 

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Doyel: Raiders move frightens me: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/03/29/doyel-raiders-move-frightens-me/99776968/

Quote

 In another city, the news that the Oakland Raiders are leaving for Las Vegas must be interesting. Great topic for debate, right? The NFL is setting up shop in the heart of gambling darkness. Let’s discuss that.

In another city.

In this city, the news that another NFL franchise is leaving for cash-greener pastures is less interesting, more ominous.

Because at some point, the next city to lose an NFL franchise could be ours.

You get this, right? That the greed of the average NFL owner knows no bounds? And when it comes to greed, we have an absolutely average NFL owner in this city.

But let’s not be hypocritical about this. Let’s not ignore this: Only reason we have the Indianapolis Colts is because 33 years ago today our city stole Baltimore’s NFL franchise in 1984.

...

But let’s not be naïve here. Let’s not allow our heart – the Colts would never leave us! – to overrule what the brain knows:

Jim Irsay voted to approve the Raiders’ move to Las Vegas.

In fact, because there’s millions to be made in relocation fees, every NFL owner voted to approve the Raiders’ move to Las Vegas. Every owner but one, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins. In a statement, Ross said: “We as owners and as a League owe it to the fans to do everything we can to stay in the communities that have supported us until all options have been exhausted.”

In a non-verbal statement, Jim Irsay and the other 30 owners said the following:

Pay me pay me pay me pay …

Me.

...

Robert Irsay didn’t leave Baltimore for Indianapolis for the canal. He came because we made him rich(er). Are you aware that we – that you – are still paying for the RCA Dome?

Built in 1984 for the Colts, the RCA Dome was demolished in 2008 because these stadiums get old, fast. We’re still paying off the $75 million public debt for the RCA Dome, and we will be through 2021, at which point we’ll have more money available to pay off Lucas Oil Stadium!

Which was built for nearly 10 times the cost.

The price tag for Lucas Oil Stadium was $720 million, and the public is paying $620 million of that. The Colts were good enough to commit $100 million, but that left the other 86 percent to us. The Colts, however, get to keep 100 percent of the profits from game-day concessions.

How’s that $7.50 beer taste?

...

Owners love their stadiums the same way Jim Irsay loves his guitars: Expensive. Difference is, Irsay spends his money on guitars. He spends your money on stadiums. And given that our money is funding his guitar purchases, hell, we bought that $965,000 Bob Dylan hand-me-down in 2013.

You’re welcome, Jim.

The NFL arms race has been escalated by the $1.15 billion stadium that opened in 2009 in Dallas, the $1.6 billion stadium that opened in 2010 in New York, and the $2.6 billion stadium going up now in Los Angeles.

This is the Colts’ 10th season Lucas Oil Stadium. It’ll suffice for another decade or so, and the lease actually has 20 more years on it, but sooner or later we’ll have to answer this question: Are we as a city going to finance another stadium that by then will cost $3 or $4 billion?

So, no: The Raiders leaving Oakland for Las Vegas isn’t interesting to me. It’s frightening. It’s like watching a tornado form in the distance, and wondering if that sucker is headed for downtown Indianapolis.

Good questions by Mr. Doyel.  The NFL arms race continues.

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Doyel: Raiders move frightens me: http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/03/29/doyel-raiders-move-frightens-me/99776968/

Good questions by Mr. Doyel.  The NFL arms race continues.

 

People talk all the time about pro sports as a business. Why treat them differently from any other business? No city "owns" any business that happens to be located there. And NFL owners' "greed knows no bounds." "Greed" is defined as "somebody other than you makes a lot of $$."

Edited by bobref

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2 minutes ago, bobref said:

No city "owns" any business that happens to be located there. 

Except for maybe the Green Bay Packers?

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Except for maybe the Green Bay Packers?

 

The Packers are owned by their shareholders, not Green Bay, WI. So, theoretically, if a majority wanted to move the team, they could. They have over 360,000 individual shareholders. Another difference between the Packers and the other teams in the NFL is that the Packers are a not for profit corporation.

Edited by bobref

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I think one of the things that makes this Vegas investment interesting is that Vegas is considered a small market.  It looks like they are banking on tourists to help fill up a 65,000 seat stadium.  That hasn't seemed to work long term.  When I go to Vegas, typically not thinking to go catch a game, but perhaps I am in the minority.

Will be interesting to see if this equation works long term.

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/raiders/raiders-move-las-vegas-doesnt-make-sense/

Las Vegas is projected to be the fifth-smallest media market in the NFL. Ownership believes most tickets will be sold to either tourists or people in-town for the weekend, but there isn’t any way to guarantee that plan will actually be successful.

Even if it did succeed, it would kill the hometown vibe for the Raiders. A cheer section made up of non-locals might change the games into more of an open-ended spectacle that would put prominent away teams on equal footing.

That’s if enough people even show up to the games. Las Vegas ranks near the bottom of NFL cities in population. Tourists will come out and watch the games as long as the Raiders are successful or when they play other marquee teams. This isn’t the type of situation built to tolerate slumps. Outsiders feast only on interest and intrigue with their hard-earned dollar.

There is no home cooking for losing in Las Vegas.

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22 minutes ago, Trojan Dad said:

I think one of the things that makes this Vegas investment interesting is that Vegas is considered a small market.  

Almost any NFL owner would take the bait if given a free billion dollar + stadium for his franchise to occupy, even it it was built in the middle of a desert.  And in this base both conditions are true.   That kind of crony capitalism knows no bounds.

 

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