Chatard vs Knox Semi-state

[Titan32]

3 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Why can't Chatard earn enough points to stay in 4a?   That is a real question 

Should be the study case of what to fix with the success factor.

[littledog]

4 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

My apologies for the earlier multi spam of my comment. The submit button never registered that my reply was submitted. I thought I had website lag. Kept hitting the button. I’d already asked the mods to delete the long one. 

Are you secretly a knox poster? I thought only rural communties had to deal with lag. lol

[Titan32]

2 hours ago, Just a dad said:

I am a huge fan of the “We are the poor oppressed” argument here and the P/P’s are the oppressors. It is the cry of every group that currently loves to hang and wave their flag of choice. The unfortunate part is that it ends up sounding like whining. I miss the old days (like pre-pandemic) when it was “Underdogs vs the Favorites”. When the underdogs would swear to fight like hell in the face of odds seemingly stacked against them. Their victories were the victories of underdogs everywhere. We celebrated the victorious underdog. Today that underdog goes by the name of the oppressed. They whine and cry about things being “fair”, need safe spaces and call everyone who has a differing opinion a name or pejorative of some sort. They love to “pwn” people and, in the end, nobody cares when they actually win because society is tired of dealing with the insufferable twerps. 

Now leave me alone cuz I need to find my VHS of Villanova Basketball beating Georgetown in the NCAA finals. 

The good old days when folks accepted a class system that really isn't a class system.  Always comes off great at my fortune 500 company....let's just do it the way we always have...leadership loves that.

[FastpacedO]

12 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Thank you for your laziness.

 

Says the man who is even lazier and wants others to do the work for them. 

[Just a dad]

The biggest assist to P/P enrollment in the Indy area is the absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school. Any of the public school parents out in the cornfields and mountains of this beautiful state should be counting their blessings that their kids get to participate in sports at the cost of only their tax dollars. Having to fork over more money as a parent just to ensure that our kids can go to a school where they do not have to pass through metal detectors daily and their education at least prepares them for college is not our dream. I wouldn’t mind at all if my kid could go to a safe, high quality school, win more than they lose in the sport of their choice, get to make great life-long friends and some day get to reminisce about the good old days. 

Until then, I want the highest quality education, environment and athletics for my kid if I am writing a check. If you think you wouldn’t do the same in our situation then you are lying to yourself. 

[cpg1970]

To the diehard Knox and Chatard fans, I am curious as to how many players on each team are two-way players?

[Titan32]

Just now, Just a dad said:

The biggest assist to P/P enrollment in the Indy area is the absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school. Any of the public school parents out in the cornfields and mountains of this beautiful state should be counting their blessings that their kids get to participate in sports at the cost of only their tax dollars. Having to fork over more money as a parent just to ensure that our kids can go to a school where they do not have to pass through metal detectors daily and their education at least prepares them for college is not our dream. I wouldn’t mind at all if my kid could go to a safe, high quality school, win more than they lose in the sport of their choice, get to make great life-long friends and some day get to reminisce about the good old days. 

Until then, I want the highest quality education, environment and athletics for my kid if I am writing a check. If you think you wouldn’t do the same in our situation then you are lying to yourself. 

I respect all of that....just don't expect folks to not call out the advantage of enrollment disparity.  An advantage should not be available for purchase.

[jets]

10 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Should be the study case of what to fix with the success factor.

Or the fact that MD NEVER got moved up...not once ? 

[gonzoron]

8 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school

What percentage of Chatard students would have actually attended an IPS high school? There aren't many of them left.

Edited November 14, 2023 by gonzoron

[Muda69]

8 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Says the man who is even lazier and wants others to do the work for them. 

No, just a man who recognizes the efficiency in asking someone who apparently has access to certain datasets to provide the whereabouts of said datasets.   

You must work in the government sector.

 

[FastpacedO]

2 hours ago, gonzoron said:

I think we got it now.

I don't know I think we might need to read it one more time or two.

[Tippy]

35 minutes ago, Stoner said:

If you miss the old days, then you can go back to the cluster system, when the oppressed Catholic schools in Marion County sued the IHSAA because they were all put in the same sectional.

Oppression crosses all boundaries and decades.

I think some people would like to go back to the 1930's, when Catholic schools were not allowed to be members of the IHSAA.

[Muda69]

13 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

The biggest assist to P/P enrollment in the Indy area is the absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school. Any of the public school parents out in the cornfields and mountains of this beautiful state should be counting their blessings that their kids get to participate in sports at the cost of only their tax dollars. Having to fork over more money as a parent just to ensure that our kids can go to a school where they do not have to pass through metal detectors daily and their education at least prepares them for college is not our dream. I wouldn’t mind at all if my kid could go to a safe, high quality school, win more than they lose in the sport of their choice, get to make great life-long friends and some day get to reminisce about the good old days. 

Until then, I want the highest quality education, environment and athletics for my kid if I am writing a check. If you think you wouldn’t do the same in our situation then you are lying to yourself. 

Where are these Indiana mountains you speak of?  You must not get out of Marion county very often.......................

And so the Catholic/religious component of this particular p/p education are less important?  Or you believe it's really not worth the check's you write for it?

 

3 minutes ago, Tippy said:

I think some people would like to go back to the 1930's, when Catholic schools were not allowed to be members of the IHSAA.

The IHSAA is a 100% private institution.  Always has been, probably always will be.  

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Muda69

[Tippy]

4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Where are these Indiana mountains you speak of?  You must not get of our Marion county very often.......................

And so the Catholic/religious component of this particular p/p education are less important?  Or you believe it's really not worth the check's you write for it?

 

The IHSAA is a 100% private institution.  Always had been, probably always will be.  

 

So, you think Catholic schools should not be members of the IHSAA?

[Boilernation]

17 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

The biggest assist to P/P enrollment in the Indy area is the absolutely trash safety and education our kids would get if they attended an IPS school. Any of the public school parents out in the cornfields and mountains of this beautiful state should be counting their blessings that their kids get to participate in sports at the cost of only their tax dollars. Having to fork over more money as a parent just to ensure that our kids can go to a school where they do not have to pass through metal detectors daily and their education at least prepares them for college is not our dream. I wouldn’t mind at all if my kid could go to a safe, high quality school, win more than they lose in the sport of their choice, get to make great life-long friends and some day get to reminisce about the good old days. 

Until then, I want the highest quality education, environment and athletics for my kid if I am writing a check. If you think you wouldn’t do the same in our situation then you are lying to yourself. 

Fair points. I would love to live in Meridian-Kessler, South Broad Ripple or Butler-Tarkington. Outside of the upkeep on an old house the main deterrent for me is this right here. 

[FastpacedO]

5 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

No, just a man who recognizes the efficiency in asking someone who apparently has access to certain datasets to provide the whereabouts of said datasets.   

You must work in the government sector.

 

Ipso facto lazier or indolent,

[Muda69]

1 minute ago, FastpacedO said:

Ipso facto lazier or indolent,

At least you admit you are lazy.

 

[1st_and_10]

4 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

Danville did have Chatard's number in 2016 and 2017, but they got that monkey off their back in 2020.

Danville was 0-12 (from 97-2015) before they beat Chatard in 2016...

[FastpacedO]

3 minutes ago, 1st_and_10 said:

Danville was 0-12 (from 97-2015) before they beat Chatard in 2016...

Yep but they had their number in 2016 and 2017 many didn't think they would win those games.

[Madvamp]

49 minutes ago, cpg1970 said:

To the diehard Knox and Chatard fans, I am curious as to how many players on each team are two-way players?

Knox has 37 on the roster.  5 to 7 kids play both ways. As far as Chatard, I have no idea. Max Preps says they have 137. They could play a different offense and defense every quarter if they wanted. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Madvamp

[FastpacedO]

14 minutes ago, Madvamp said:

Knox has 37 on the roster.  5 to 7 kids play both ways. As far as Chatard, I have no idea. Max Preps says they have 137. They could play a different offense and defense every quarter if they wanted. 

77 Varsity players for Chatard. @Lysander use to be a 3-way play (cooked, cleaned, and drove) now he retired.

https://bishopchatardathletics.org/wp-content/uploads/Football-Roster.pdf

Edited November 14, 2023 by FastpacedO

[Just a dad]

9 minutes ago, Madvamp said:

Knox has 37 on the roster.  5 to 7 kids play both ways. As far as Chatard, I have no idea. Max Preps says they have 137. They could play a different offense and defense every quarter if they wanted. 

Chatard has two kids that start both ways but multiple that get snaps on both sides depending on the situation. I think the 137 includes the freshman team. They started with 52 freshman and ended with 48. An absurd number of kids in a class of less than 200 (about half being boys). That’s how you know the entire school has a football culture and not just the football team. That football culture is a huge source of pride and the school identity. Everyone participates in Friday nights: Students, faculty, parents, alumni, people who just live in the neighborhood. That culture and football champion identity is why so many of the CYO kids choose to go there.

 

[FastpacedO]

6 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

77 Varsity players for Chatard. @Lysander use to be a 3-way play (cooked, cleaned, and drove) now he retired.

https://bishopchatardathletics.org/wp-content/uploads/Football-Roster.pdf

I might have gave the 2022 roster. Here is the 2023

https://bishopchatardathletics.org/wp-content/uploads/2023FootballRoster.pdf

[Lysander]

4 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Why can't Chatard earn enough points to stay in 4a?   That is a real question 

Coach, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don’t know the history of Chatard in 4A….but it’s going to be Tolstoy in length…but hardly as literary…I’ll leave that to @Muda and his misspelled  acronyms.  For the record, anyone bothering to read this likely should grab a cup of coffee.

For the record, nobody is any less happy about Chatard being in 3A than Chatard football fans….at least this one, anyway.  Pretty sure I represent a majority, though.  With that, 4A is not always better than 3A..but it is in most years.  Regardless, either 3A or 4A is almost always better than 5A – I include in this the 70% of the time 5A is ACTUALLY WON BY A BUMPED UP 4A TEAM. 

If Chatard could somehow ultimately claw its way through 4A into 5A, I doubt it would ever leave 5A.

With that, let’s start with a recent history primer of Chatard in 3A and 4A (4A boldfaced and underlined😞

2013: (Year 1 of the Success Factor with 4 Points required to stay in 4A) Chatard wins Sectional v. Roncalli 28-8.  They lose Regional, in a game that was decided late, v. New Palestine.  This year was the start of New Pal’s great success under Coach Ralph.  Their Chatard win was the first statewide sign something special was cooking there. Chatard earns 1 point.

2014: Chatard rolls over and supines itself to Roncalli 31-6 in Sectional after beating them 20-7 in the regular season.  No further comment.  Chatard earns 0 points…back to 3A.

2015: Chatard wins 3A State

2016: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Vince Lorenzano’s last year)

2017: Chatard loses to Danville in 3A Sectional (Coach Rob Doyle’s first year)

2018: Chatard loses 3A Semi-State to Evansville Memorial…admittedly losing ugly.

2019: Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard  ranked #3 All Classes…New Pal was ranked #1 All Classes)

2020:   Chatard wins 3A State (CalPreps had Chatard ranked #6 All Classes).  For the record, they beat later 4A state champion Roncalli 28-7 that year (Roncalli’s sole loss). 

2021: Chatard loses to Roncalli in 4A Sectional 35-21.  Lest folks forget, this was the year Roncalli with their monster line (just coming off a State Championship) was talked about much like East Central today….until they lost in an upset to Mt Vernon (who easily won State).  Chatard earns 0 points.

2022: Chatard is put back in 3A (don’t ask me why…I still don’t understand it).  Chatard wins 3A State.

This is the history.  Chatard has only ever been in 4A for 3 years.  They’ve only been knocked out of 4A once in 2014 where they needed 4 points to stay up. 

That said, in 2024, have no doubt the slack jaws at the IHSAA will put Brebeuf, Chatard, Roncalli, Cincy Elder, Cincy St.X and Cincy Moeller in the same Sectional….or dream about it, anyway.  Regardless, Brebeuf, Chatard and Roncalli WILL be in the same Sectional….because….

In its absolute worst years, Chatard will almost always be a top 5-10 4A team (I believe they should be in the North...for the record).  Frankly, Chatard doesn’t seem to experience the same high/low swings Roncalli does. Still, historically Chatard will almost always also split 50/50 with Roncalli…who has a bit of a tradition, as well (but tends to have bigger “lows” than Chatard does in off years).  When Roncalli is “good”, they’re “State Champion good”.

Regardless, I have been told until my ears bleed that the IHSAA DEEPLY evaluates these Sectional groupings considering a multitude of factors including historic conferences…..yada, yada, yada….BS, BS, BS….smoke blowing up my hindquarters. Which has always been used to explain just how Roncalli’s next door, talking over the fence neighbor New Palestine is never paired with Roncalli in Sectional…but 45 minute North Indianapolis cross-county Chatard is ALWAYS paired with Roncalli.

That said, can’t the IHSAA figure out a way to simply put Chatard, New Pal and Roncalli in 3 different Sectionals?  Just that little effort would likely keep a prolonged and forever peace in 3A.

Tragically, the IHSAA has continued to give us year after year the “Sectional of Death” in 3A (copyright to @foxbat) or equivalent which, by any consideration, is gerrymandered as Hell but always has Chatard in the crosshairs (along with every Indiana HS Catholic north of the Mason Dixon line)….but ultimately screws over tons of great teams like TV, HH, WL, Guerin and too many teams to mention.  I’m still p!ssed off as to how badly Tippecanoe Valley was screwed over between Sectional pairings and the damn ping pong balls.

I have no doubt they will continue that proud tradition into 4A next year…wherever those Catholic Schools might be.

If the IHSAA truly gave a sh!t about the principle behind the Success Factor shouldn’t it ALSO be a consideration in that DEEP evaluation of Sectional pairings…or do you just let another equivalent of the 3A TW AD (some of you get the “code”) make the pairings in 4A as well?

Up to this point, the IHSAA Sectional pairings appear nothing more than self-interested groupings by those school administrators involved in the decision making process with no actual consideration of the overall picture….those non-decision makers  get the “Sectional of Death”.

I’m as angry as anybody about Chatard being in 3A (whether they win or lose this Friday…or possibly the following week).

The Success Factor can actually work if the IHSAA  actively considers the principle behind it as regards Sectional groupings. I say this as someone who was a very vocal sceptic…just ask Coach Gallogly.  If they don’t, and just allow it to become the playground for self-interested 4A  ADs…like those behind the "Sectional of Death" in 3A, then nothing will be resolved.

My guess is that, ultimately, those involved in the decision process at the IHSAA will most likely place self-interest over principle come Sectional announcement time.

Please, prove me wrong.

 

You can now return to the original thread....

 

[Lysander]

2 hours ago, tango said:

We enjoy playing Chatard. Just haven't had the chance since 2018. Maybe we'll get the chance next year.

Keep that Memorial Kryptonite away!!!  Along with the Arctic weather.  Go North Chatard!