RegionFBFan Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 25 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: Ok. Let's make this work. Scrimmage Week is Game 1 and Weeks 1-9 make a 10 game regular season. You MUST win 2 games against another IHSAA school to qualify. If you can't get 2 wins out of 10 games then just move on to basketball. For reference in 2023 there were 47 teams with 10 or 9 losses. A 9 loss team either finished 1-8 and lost Round 1 or got lucky with a draw finished 2-9 or 3-9. But to get 9 losses, you had to be 1-8 after week 9. Last year that means 315 - 47 = 268 "qualifiers" for this set up. Even could allow a few more teams that scheduled wins, because the magic number would be 272. Top 32 in enrollment = 6A tournament Remaining 240 qualifiers split into 5 even classes of 48. Seeded obviously with the top 16 in each class getting a bye and let a bunch of 2 & 3 win teams face each other round 1 (week 10 of current schedule). Week 11 is round 2, each class has 32 teams and the 6 classes will still crown champs Thanksgiving weekend in LOS. If I were omnipotent commissioner for a day, this is what I set up. Great start! Questions and comments: 1. 5 evenly split brackets - what is the spread from largest to smallest in each bracket in this scenario? It seems like the large school spread which is bad today gets worse. 2. What would you use to determine seeding? I agree with seeding. 3. Agree LOS is the only location for finals. Removes weather and turf from equation. 4. I would add Neutral site locations for Semi State. Prefer regionals at neutral sites but might be asking too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 46 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: Ok. Let's make this work. Scrimmage Week is Game 1 and Weeks 1-9 make a 10 game regular season. You MUST win 2 games against another IHSAA school to qualify. If you can't get 2 wins out of 10 games then just move on to basketball. For reference in 2023 there were 47 teams with 10 or 9 losses. A 9 loss team either finished 1-8 and lost Round 1 or got lucky with a draw finished 2-9 or 3-9. But to get 9 losses, you had to be 1-8 after week 9. Last year that means 315 - 47 = 268 "qualifiers" for this set up. Even could allow a few more teams that scheduled wins, because the magic number would be 272. Top 32 in enrollment = 6A tournament Remaining 240 qualifiers split into 5 even classes of 48. Seeded obviously with the top 16 in each class getting a bye and let a bunch of 2 & 3 win teams face each other round 1 (week 10 of current schedule). Week 11 is round 2, each class has 32 teams and the 6 classes will still crown champs Thanksgiving weekend in LOS. If I were omnipotent commissioner for a day, this is what I set up. Well said....I was actually working LOL (hard to believe I know) and didn't want to think it through but this is close to what I was conceptualizing. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said: Come on....could you imagine running onto Notre Dame Stadium's turf as a Senior at list any 1A or 2A school for your final game of football... I know the post said 6A, but I think it would be interesting for any class. I love Notre Dame as much as anyone, but high school championships are meant to be played inside :). Let's do semi-state in South Bend, I'm down for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen Tundra Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said: You would almost have to move games to Thursday or to Sunday. This means each weekend the State Finals occur the Colts will not be able to host a Thanksgiving Day game (if the games start Thursday) or would need to have a bye or play away on the Sunday after (if the games move to Sunday). Thursday games: 1pm - 4pm - 7pm Friday: 1pm - 4pm - 7pm Saturday: 10am - 1pm - 4pm - 7pm or Friday games: 10am - 1pm -4pm - 7pm Saturday: 10am - 1pm - 4pm - 7pm Sunday games: Noon - 3:30pm. (this could even move forward to 10am so that players can get home in time for school on Monday). Two problems with that: 1. Most people aren’t going to want to give up their Thanksgiving to attend, work, coach, or play a high school football game. 2. Sundays don’t work because of religious reasons. I don’t think the parochial schools would appreciate Sunday games. There are also some kids and families that wouldn’t like it even if they weren’t affiliated with a parochial school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 19 hours ago, Punttheball said: I don't think private schools are allowed into their state playoffs. Private schools won the 5A, 7A, and 8A football championships in Illinois in 2023. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I can't entertain the idea of "not everyone gets in the playoffs". One I don't think we'll ever see that happen here and two... I think all kids should get to play in the sectional. I don't think we accomplish anything by not allowing certain teams in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punttheball Posted February 15 Author Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, Bobref said: Private schools won the 5A, 7A, and 8A football championships in Illinois in 2023. Is there a different division for the Chicago city schools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) @BTF what was your confusion? Big fan of scrimmages? Edited February 15 by btownqbcoach1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 17 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said: @BTF what was your confusion? Big fan of scrimmages? As a fan, I don't care one way or another. I would imagine, as a coach, you're probably in the minority with regard to eliminating the scrimmage. I'm guessing most coaches would rather knock heads against another team in a practice game before kicking off when it actually counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQWL Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 minutes ago, BTF said: As a fan, I don't care one way or another. I would imagine, as a coach, you're probably in the minority with regard to eliminating the scrimmage. I'm guessing most coaches would rather knock heads against another team in a practice game before kicking off when it actually counts. I don't think that's true. I haven't spoken to a coach that feels the official scrimmage is as important as it used to be with the current summer guidelines. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, BTF said: As a fan, I don't care one way or another. I would imagine, as a coach, you're probably in the minority with regard to eliminating the scrimmage. I'm guessing most coaches would rather knock heads against another team in a practice game before kicking off when it actually counts. I don't think that is true. And to your last sentence-- at camp we get 4 whole practices against other teams. It was all filmed-- counting 7 on 7 reps+11 on 11 reps-- We were probably around 300-350 reps against other teams. That doesn't count our other 2 competition days. Now-- I would also be fine with keeping the scrimmage against an opponent in week 1 of regular practice and eliminating the intrasquad scrimmage, that's fine with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 minutes ago, BTF said: As a fan, I don't care one way or another. I would imagine, as a coach, you're probably in the minority with regard to eliminating the scrimmage. I'm guessing most coaches would rather knock heads against another team in a practice game before kicking off when it actually counts. It was always my understanding that when they changed to the current format, the scrimmage was a concession. The plan was eventually it would go away and we would be back to a 10 game schedule. Then the argument was, everyone gets in we’re already playing 10 games. I tend to agree with @JQWLthe scrimmage has outlived its usefulness, given the current summer rules. That being said man, starting games second Friday in August seems early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerFran Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 24 minutes ago, BTF said: As a fan, I don't care one way or another. I would imagine, as a coach, you're probably in the minority with regard to eliminating the scrimmage. I'm guessing most coaches would rather knock heads against another team in a practice game before kicking off when it actually counts. I'd be fine removing the scrimmage. With the number of pro pad scrimmages the IHSAA allows each summer, I feel like the kids are generally pretty ready to go once the regular season starts rolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said: I don't think that is true. And to your last sentence-- at camp we get 4 whole practices against other teams. It was all filmed-- counting 7 on 7 reps+11 on 11 reps-- We were probably around 300-350 reps against other teams. That doesn't count our other 2 competition days. Now-- I would also be fine with keeping the scrimmage against an opponent in week 1 of regular practice and eliminating the intrasquad scrimmage, that's fine with me. Good point. Things are certainly different now than what they used to be. If I'm doing the math right, doesn't the risk for a player getting injured before the postseason go up approximately 10% by adding another game? Is it really worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
First_Backer_Inside Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, BTF said: Good point. Things are certainly different now than what they used to be. If I'm doing the math right, doesn't the risk for a player getting injured before the postseason go up approximately 10% by adding another game? Is it really worth it? Yes, but I mean its a part of the game. We've had kids get injured in the scrimmage game. Heck when I played we went live in practice all the time. We spent more time beaten the snot out of each other and getting injured during practice than we did in games. Even going pro pads and thudding in practices nowadays there are still freak accidents that happen. I understand where you are coming from because it will be more wear and tear on the kids bodies, but injuries happen all the time, it sucks, but it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, BTF said: Good point. Things are certainly different now than what they used to be. If I'm doing the math right, doesn't the risk for a player getting injured before the postseason go up approximately 10% by adding another game? Is it really worth it? Well-- yes, it does. I would argue you have 10% more fun 😉 and yes, imo, it is worth it. But-- they still get 40 reps or so even in an intrasquad scrimmage. Edited February 15 by btownqbcoach1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said: Yes, but I mean its a part of the game. We've had kids get injured in the scrimmage game. Heck when I played we went live in practice all the time. We spent more time beaten the snot out of each other and getting injured during practice than we did in games. Even going pro pads and thudding in practices nowadays there are still freak accidents that happen. I understand where you are coming from because it will be more wear and tear on the kids bodies, but injuries happen all the time, it sucks, but it happens. That's also a good point. As a fan, I'd take the 10th game in a heartbeat since the season always seems to go by quickly. I'm sure the AD's wouldn't mine the extra revenue that a 10th game would provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQWL Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 27 minutes ago, BTF said: Good point. Things are certainly different now than what they used to be. If I'm doing the math right, doesn't the risk for a player getting injured before the postseason go up approximately 10% by adding another game? Is it really worth it? I don't think it does. The risk of injury in a scrimmage is already present. So the risk is essentially the same. (Maybe the increased risk would be in a scrimmage, you can play in fewer snaps than an actual game.) The only difference is, you could get injured in a glorified practice game or an actual game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Edwards Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 22 hours ago, btownqbcoach1 said: I would--- dump the scrimmage week and make that week 1, and yes, move to a 10 game regular season. With the ability to do scrimmages during the summer this would make sense when trying to get a 10 game regular season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qbcoach13 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 Class System. Week 1 starts on current scrimmage week. Not all teams have to start week 1. Rolling bye weeks to cut down on number of official crews needed every week. Cuts down on enrollment gaps. 8A 1 Carmel 5200 2 Ben Davis 4567 3 Warren Central 3748 4 Fishers 3664 5 North Central (Indpls.) 3616 6 Penn 3480 7 Avon 3476 8 Hamilton Southeastern 3442 9 Franklin Central 3362 10 Brownsburg 3297 11 Noblesville 3208 12 Pike 3192 13 Elkhart 3166 14 Crown Point 2978 15 Lake Central 2961 16 Center Grove 2893 7A 1 Lawrence North 2817 2 Westfield 2789 3 Carroll (Fort Wayne) 2569 4 Indianapolis Arsenal Tech 2500 5 Homestead 2408 6 Lawrence Central 2404 7 Southport 2368 8 Perry Meridian 2359 9 Zionsville 2309 10 Columbus North 2267 11 Portage 2170 12 Harrison (West Lafayette) 2169 13 Fort Wayne Northrop 2158 14 Jeffersonville 2141 15 Fort Wayne Snider 1915 16 Indianapolis Cathedral 1172 6A 1 Valparaiso 2140 2 Warsaw 2108 3 Whiteland 2074 4 South Bend Adams 2062 5 Decatur Central 2050 6 Merrillville 2050 7 Lafayette Jefferson 2034 8 Goshen 2006 9 Chesterton 1980 10 Castle 1965 11 Hammond Central 1923 12 Floyd Central 1823 13 New Albany 1814 14 LaPorte 1812 15 McCutcheon 1786 16 Plainfield 1773 17 Evansville North 1751 18 Concord 1730 19 Anderson 1722 20 Seymour 1719 21 Bloomington South 1681 22 Terre Haute South 1609 23 Franklin Community 1590 24 Bloomington North 1589 25 Hammond Morton 1534 26 Michigan City 1520 27 Columbus East 1518 28 Munster 1514 29 Terre Haute North 1467 30 Kokomo 1465 31 Fort Wayne North Side 1460 32 East Central 1241 5A 1 Fort Wayne South Side 1459 2 Mt Vernon (Fortville) 1455 3 Greenfield-Central 1430 4 Mishawaka 1422 5 Fort Wayne Wayne 1416 6 Mooresville 1398 7 Northridge 1393 8 Huntington North 1382 9 Evansville Reitz 1378 10 Pendleton Heights 1353 11 Muncie Central 1332 12 Richmond 1320 13 Martinsville 1315 14 Hobart 1298 15 South Bend Riley 1298 16 Evansville Harrison 1293 17 Bedford-North Lawrence 1242 18 Logansport 1226 19 Greenwood 1211 20 New Palestine 1209 21 Indianapolis Crispus Attucks 1170 22 Jennings County 1169 23 Columbia City 1162 24 Indianapolis Shortridge 1159 25 Evansville Central 1131 26 Shelbyville 1093 27 Jasper 1092 28 Indianapolis Roncalli 1082 29 New Haven 1068 30 Plymouth 1054 31 Marion 1045 32 DeKalb 1044 4A 1 Lebanon 1033 2 East Chicago Central 1009 3 Gary West Side 995 4 East Noble 989 5 Kankakee Valley 989 6 Lowell 985 7 Highland 977 8 New Prairie 970 9 Silver Creek 943 10 Connersville 930 11 Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger 917 12 Frankfort 901 13 Leo 900 14 Wawasee 895 15 Northview 894 16 Beech Grove 892 17 South Bend Washington 886 18 Boonville 884 19 NorthWood 869 20 Evansville Bosse 863 21 Charlestown 854 22 South Bend Saint Joseph 849 23 Culver Academies 832 24 Brebeuf Jesuit 829 25 New Castle 824 26 Danville 820 27 Hanover Central 817 28 Yorktown 812 29 Washington 810 30 Guerin Catholic 800 31 Jay County 800 32 Indianapolis Bishop Chatard 730 3A 1 Delta 798 2 Western 791 3 Mississinewa 783 4 Gibson Southern 771 5 Edgewood 761 6 Madison 760 7 Corydon Central 754 8 West Lafayette 750 9 Norwell 745 10 Angola 741 11 Mishawaka Marian 735 12 Lawrenceburg 726 13 Scottsburg 726 14 West Noble 718 15 Vincennes Lincoln 711 16 Crawfordsville 710 17 Hamilton Heights 687 18 Batesville 670 19 Twin Lakes 663 20 Greensburg 662 21 Franklin County 650 22 Owen Valley 650 23 Rushville 645 24 South Dearborn 645 25 Griffith 637 26 Indian Creek 636 27 Heritage Hills 635 28 John Glenn 633 29 North Harrison 629 30 Fort Wayne Concordia 623 31 Evansville Memorial 617 32 Hammond Bishop Noll 617 33 Indianapolis Washington 617 34 Heritage 616 35 Calumet 611 36 Bellmont 610 37 Tri-West 606 38 Maconaquah 604 39 Princeton 600 40 Peru 588 41 Purdue Polytechnic 578 42 Southridge 576 43 Mount Vernon (Posey) 574 44 Speedway 571 45 Fairfield 570 46 River Forest 567 47 Garrett 556 48 Northwestern 554 49 Cascade 546 50 Tippecanoe Valley 543 51 Lakeland 540 52 Jimtown 538 53 Oak Hill 538 54 Fort Wayne Bishop Luers 532 55 Frankton 531 56 Evansville Mater Dei 520 57 Knox 520 58 West Vigo 518 59 Woodlan 518 60 Benton Central 513 61 North Montgomery 513 62 Western Boone 513 2A 1 Centerville 512 2 Bluffton 507 3 Heritage Christian 507 4 Monrovia 503 5 Sullivan 503 6 Eastbrook 501 7 Eastern (Greentown) 499 8 Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter 498 9 Greencastle 495 10 Salem 494 11 Wabash 492 12 Blackford 490 13 Brown County 488 14 Manchester 475 15 Pike Central 474 16 Rochester 473 17 Bremen 471 18 Brownstown Central 469 19 Alexandria 468 20 South Vermillion 468 21 Triton Central 468 22 Boone Grove 466 23 Lapel 466 24 Switzerland County 464 25 Andrean 455 26 Tipton 454 27 Southmont 453 28 Indianapolis Scecina 448 29 Rensselaer Central 447 30 North Posey 442 31 North Putnam 432 32 Mitchell 430 33 Northeastern 423 34 Whiting 422 35 Prairie Heights 421 36 Park Tudor 421 37 Christel House Manual 420 38 Delphi 417 39 Wheeler 417 40 Elwood 410 41 Winchester 408 42 Adams Central 408 43 Tell City 403 44 Shenandoah 400 45 Paoli 396 46 Lake Station Edison 391 47 Union County 391 48 Eastern (Pekin) 389 49 Lewis Cass 389 50 Whitko 389 51 Linton-Stockton 387 52 Seeger 386 53 Central Noble 385 54 Clarksville 385 55 Eastside 384 56 Covenant Christian (Indpls.) 383 57 Crawford County 379 58 Churubusco 378 59 Eastern Hancock 377 60 Perry Central 377 61 Lafayette Central Catholic 302 62 Indianapolis Lutheran 267 1a 1 LaVille 373 2 Providence 371 3 Taylor 366 4 South Putnam 363 5 Winamac 360 6 South Adams 357 7 Parke Heritage 354 8 Forest Park 353 9 Hagerstown 352 10 South Spencer 352 11 Eastern Greene 351 12 North Knox 349 13 Madison-Grant 336 14 Sheridan 336 15 Clinton Prairie 327 16 Carroll (Flora) 321 17 Riverton Parke 320 18 North Newton 319 19 South Central (Union Mills) 318 20 Knightstown 316 21 Milan 315 22 North Decatur 314 23 North Judson 308 24 Monroe Central 301 25 Northfield 296 26 Fountain Central 289 27 Anderson Prep Academy 288 28 Pioneer 286 29 Tecumseh 286 30 Cloverdale 283 31 Fremont 283 32 Covington 281 33 Bowman Academy 277 34 West Washington 277 35 Triton 274 36 North Daviess 273 37 Fort Wayne Blackhawk Christian 270 38 Clinton Central 268 39 Springs Valley 266 40 South Decatur 265 41 North White 264 42 North Miami 263 43 Southwood 263 44 North Central (Farmersburg) 257 45 Tri 256 46 Southern Wells 252 47 Wes-Del 248 48 Culver 246 49 Union City 244 50 Caston 241 51 South Newton 241 52 Cambridge City Lincoln 234 53 Tri Central 232 54 Edinburgh 227 55 Greenwood Christian 222 56 Tri-County 220 57 North Vermillion 218 58 West Central 209 59 Indianapolis Tindley 202 60 Frontier 180 61 Attica 160 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snrmike Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 20 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: First - Illinois has 526 football playing schools (according to CalPreps). Only 256 make their playoffs (8 classes of 32) Second - P/P do play in the IHSA Playoffs (not the 'tournament' as the IHSAA calls it.) Teams without defined boundaries - like P/P's, Charters, and the like get hit with a multiplier which is 1.65 You arte correct about Illinois. Here's a link to the Terms and Conditions for the footbsll playoffs in the IHSA> https://www.ihsa.org/documents/fb/2023-24/t-and-cs.pdf 20 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: First - Illinois has 526 football playing schools (according to CalPreps). Only 256 make their playoffs (8 classes of 32) Second - P/P do play in the IHSA Playoffs (not the 'tournament' as the IHSAA calls it.) Teams without defined boundaries - like P/P's, Charters, and the like get hit with a multiplier which is 1.65 You are correct about Illinois. Here's a link to the Terms and Conditions for the footbsll playoffs in the IHSA> https://www.ihsa.org/documents/fb/2023-24/t-and-cs.pdf Edited February 15 by snrmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 17 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said: Two problems with that: 1. Most people aren’t going to want to give up their Thanksgiving to attend, work, coach, or play a high school football game. 2. Sundays don’t work because of religious reasons. I don’t think the parochial schools would appreciate Sunday games. There are also some kids and families that wouldn’t like it even if they weren’t affiliated with a parochial school. Officially, probably not, but a large number of p/p students are Catholic and we Catholics have vigil/Saturday Masses for weekend obligations. Here in Lafayette/West Lafayette you can catch Mass at 7:00 pm and 9:00 pm on Sundays, during the school year, at St. Tom's. I don't think it would be as much an issue for a single weekend; especially if there's a rotation of classes on Sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, foxbat said: Officially, probably not, but a large number of p/p students are Catholic and we Catholics have vigil/Saturday Masses for weekend obligations. Here in Lafayette/West Lafayette you can catch Mass at 7:00 pm and 9:00 pm on Sundays, during the school year, at St. Tom's. I don't think it would be as much an issue for a single weekend; especially if there's a rotation of classes on Sunday. Rule 9-13 No Sunday Athletic Participation There shall be no interschool athletic Contests, school Practices or school sponsored Camps/ Clinics held on Sunday. Calling One (1) or more team members together on Sunday for studying scouting reports, viewing films of games, any kind of participation, etc. will be considered a violation of this rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, tango said: Rule 9-13 No Sunday Athletic Participation There shall be no interschool athletic Contests, school Practices or school sponsored Camps/ Clinics held on Sunday. Calling One (1) or more team members together on Sunday for studying scouting reports, viewing films of games, any kind of participation, etc. will be considered a violation of this rule. Yeah, but these are the same guys that had four points to stay up, then two, now three ... what's one Sunday among friends? Or the IHSAA? 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojanmp52 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 I post this a few backs the dates are from thenso I apologize since they do not add up to last year but I think most of you can get the giff of it. the more class you add the more water down everything becomes First change i would make is to the last week of July. I would make this camp week where schools could have a mini camp. They could hold it during 4 of the 5 days of the week. I Would make Saturday and no contact day so the kids and families could have the last weekend before the season starts to do family stuff. During your camp you can have up to 3 full pads pracites during the 4 days the rest would be pro pads. It would be like the old 2adays we had back in the day. The first Monday in Aug. would be the start of normal football operations The reason for this is to make more fair across the board some since not all schools start at the same time. 2nd change would be to move the start of the games up a week. For example this year Aug 7 would be the scrimmage and Aug 13 would week one. By doing this you would be doing two things one is give 5A and 6A the same amount of games played as the rest of the class, the second thing it would do is give the lower class a bye week. There is a lot ways to this but i think the easiest way is to make the bye week 10 right before the playoffs start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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