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Crown Point (13-0) vs. Ben Davis (12-1) 6A State Championship


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26 minutes ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

If Ben Davis wins , which I think they will , it will be because of the tough schedule . If CP wins (Go Dogs), it will be because of Ben Davis's tough schedule , they are beat up from playing 2-3 straight tough teams . I can hear it already . 

That’s the MIC blueprint.

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1 hour ago, GOLDRUSH1985 said:

If Ben Davis wins , which I think they will , it will be because of the tough schedule . If CP wins (Go Dogs), it will be because of Ben Davis's tough schedule , they are beat up from playing 2-3 straight tough teams . I can hear it already . 

Before the BD game, Coach Moore did say something about how the long season had taken a toll on his team.  Anyway, BD is going to score 30+ on CP and CP knows that.  I think CP will have to use trick plays and maybe get a punt return for a td or something like that to stay in the game.

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52 minutes ago, Tippy said:

Before the BD game, Coach Moore did say something about how the long season had taken a toll on his team.  Anyway, BD is going to score 30+ on CP and CP knows that.  I think CP will have to use trick plays and maybe get a punt return for a td or something like that to stay in the game.

Like clockwork. 

CG can’t make the “toll of the MIC” claim anymore.

I’ve gotta come up with a new name for this one.

Taking suggestions…

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Central Indiana is the equivalent of the SEC, the top schools in this area of the state stand above the rest of the state, because they are the Buzzsaw. The Giants wont walk into LOS starry eyed and just happy to be there. They are going to be like Georgia standing in the tunnel of Neyland this past weekend, ready to exert their will.

Even though BD hasn't won a state title since 2017, they have seen the deepest water this season multiple times. 

CP has finally peered into deep water after Penn and Westfield took them to their uncharted waters....BD was in those waters in weeks 4&5, they went further in week 8, and this playoffs there were times it looked like the Giants were going to be pulled under. 

CP, is good and will fight hard. But, like every team from up here, when we travel south, the Buzzsaw always wins. 

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23 hours ago, temptation said:

But has this Ben Davis team really “been there?”  I know I am sort of contradicting myself and I’m prepared for you to tell me I am wrong which is fine…but I think the Carroll/CG matchup last year fits that narrative more so than this one.

Now, if we wanna get into who has been more battle tested and ready for the moment, I’ll have that conversation.  The gauntlet that Ben Davis (under a FIRST year head coach) went through just to get to Lucas Oil may be unprecedented.  The argument could be made that Russ Mann’s squad just eliminated three future Hall of Fame coaches in a matter of four weeks!  I am not a region guy but default to others on the accomplishments of Buzea so we could very well be adding a fourth Hall of Famer to the “hit list.”

And that is not even mentioning Mike Kirschner who BD knocked off in the regular season, Moeller who is still alive in the final 4 in Ohio and a “moral victory” (hate that term) against IMG.

I fear Buzea’s squad is running into a BUZZsaw next weekend.

Not to mention Coach Mann joined Ben Davis' staff July of 2022 and was named HC at Ben Davis in March of 2023 after Coach Simmons left for a College assistant job. Some neat facts about Coach Mann, he was the former QB for Concord leading them to the 1998 4A State Championship game where they lost to Cathedral (led by Coach Streiff now ad at Cathedral) 38-7. Coach Mann got his start in coaching being a part of Coach Streiff's staff at North Central. He has been an assistant for some pretty solid coaches (Coach Streiff at NC, Coach Haste at NC, Coach Shelton at NC, Coach West at LC and WC, Coach Kirschner at WC, and Coach Simmons at BD). He has done a solid job taking over the reigns at Ben Davis.

21 hours ago, BTF said:

The current players haven't been to a state championship, but the culture of the program knowing that teams of the past have "been there done that," in my opinion, is an emotional advantage that Ben Davis has over Crown Point. Also, is it safe to say Ben Davis players have played at Lucas Oil? Maybe a regular season game? Also, I think playing a team like IMG gives Ben Davis that "we've already been in a big game" advantage. 

Agree, Crown Point's schedule doesn't compare to that of Ben Davis. But they have shown up when it counts. They wasted a good Merrillville team. Yes, the Pirates are good. They took out a really good Penn team. And looked even better in the way they handled Westfield.

It would be dangerous for Ben Davis not to play one of their best games of the season. I'm not sold the Giants will be a buzzsaw. I'm expecting a close game. I'll eat crow Sunday morning if I'm wrong. 

I highly doubt Ben Davis won't be prepared Coach Mann and his staff have done a great job of getting them prepared for games. I wondered if Ben Davis would beat themselves, but they showed in the Cathedral game they can play disciplined football (0 turnovers). If they have no turnovers in this game they will win, if they have multiple turnovers it could be tight. In a tight game I would take Ben Davis to win too because they have already proven they can win in tight situations.

Some things I am certain of. Ben Davis will likely be the fastest team Crown Point has played this year. Every Ben Davis game I have watched (in person or on film) when Alijah Price gets the ball he is lightening quick and if he gets in open field nobody will catch him. They recently have been utilizing Gotkowski's running ability as well as his passing. I also know the Ben Davis defense will bring a defense unlike anything Crown Point has faced. They are fast and relentless with pressure, they have 130 TFL's and 57 sacks (266 QB hurries) for a reason to go along with their 23 Int's and 9 fumble recoveries. Ben Davis definitely brings a lot of speed to the table.

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45 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Central Indiana is the equivalent of the SEC, the top schools in this area of the state stand above the rest of the state, because they are the Buzzsaw. The Giants wont walk into LOS starry eyed and just happy to be there. They are going to be like Georgia standing in the tunnel of Neyland this past weekend, ready to exert their will.

Even though BD hasn't won a state title since 2017, they have seen the deepest water this season multiple times. 

CP has finally peered into deep water after Penn and Westfield took them to their uncharted waters....BD was in those waters in weeks 4&5, they went further in week 8, and this playoffs there were times it looked like the Giants were going to be pulled under. 

CP, is good and will fight hard. But, like every team from up here, when we travel south, the Buzzsaw always wins. 

Have not seen a better explanation than this one on this board...kudos.

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3 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Not to mention Coach Mann joined Ben Davis' staff July of 2022 and was named HC at Ben Davis in March of 2023 after Coach Simmons left for a College assistant job. Some neat facts about Coach Mann, he was the former QB for Concord leading them to the 1998 4A State Championship game where they lost to Cathedral (led by Coach Streiff now ad at Cathedral) 38-7. Coach Mann got his start in coaching being a part of Coach Streiff's staff at North Central. He has been an assistant for some pretty solid coaches (Coach Streiff at NC, Coach Haste at NC, Coach Shelton at NC, Coach West at LC and WC, Coach Kirschner at WC, and Coach Simmons at BD). He has done a solid job taking over the reigns at Ben Davis.

I highly doubt Ben Davis won't be prepared Coach Mann and his staff have done a great job of getting them prepared for games. I wondered if Ben Davis would beat themselves, but they showed in the Cathedral game they can play disciplined football (0 turnovers). If they have no turnovers in this game they will win, if they have multiple turnovers it could be tight. In a tight game I would take Ben Davis to win too because they have already proven they can win in tight situations.

Some things I am certain of. Ben Davis will likely be the fastest team Crown Point has played this year. Every Ben Davis game I have watched (in person or on film) when Alijah Price gets the ball he is lightening quick and if he gets in open field nobody will catch him. They recently have been utilizing Gotkowski's running ability as well as his passing. I also know the Ben Davis defense will bring a defense unlike anything Crown Point has faced. They are fast and relentless with pressure, they have 130 TFL's and 57 sacks (266 QB hurries) for a reason to go along with their 23 Int's and 9 fumble recoveries. Ben Davis definitely brings a lot of speed to the table.

I have no doubt that Ben Davis will be the fastest team Crown Point has seen all year. But they did manhandle Merrillville, who's pretty damn fast. I get it though, double Merrillville's enrollment, and you have Ben Davis. In my opinion, every state title game other than 3A has a degree of interest. I plan on hitting five games. 

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29 minutes ago, BTF said:

I have no doubt that Ben Davis will be the fastest team Crown Point has seen all year. But they did manhandle Merrillville, who's pretty damn fast. I get it though, double Merrillville's enrollment, and you have Ben Davis. In my opinion, every state title game other than 3A has a degree of interest. I plan on hitting five games. 

Merrillville and Ben Davis is comparing Apples to Oranges.

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31 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Merrillville and Ben Davis is comparing Apples to Oranges.

Of course it is. Double the enrollment. Double the amount of speedsters on the team and the likelihood that the fastest kid is on your team and not the other one. That's what I'm saying. 

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On 11/18/2023 at 9:44 PM, Boilerup said:

Cp was listed one time as pretenders?

proved a lot of people wrong!

Just so happy a team from the 219 made it to the finals! 
 

sorry to say I believe BD is more talented and speed that will be to much!   
 

But the experience for every little bulldog in the stands will build dreams of playing for a state title ! Can’t wait to see what comes in the future for this 219 school.  Love the region!

Should be quite the game.  Don't sleep on the Dogs as Westfield was "supposed to" beat them.

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On 11/19/2023 at 7:58 AM, BTF said:

I feel like anytime a first year team is going up against a team that's been there, the awe factor gets in the way. So definitely advantage Ben Davis. I think in a normal outdoor setting, the CG/Carroll game last year is a closer score. Same winner and loser, just a smaller margin of victory. 

I honestly haven't doubted Crown Point at all. What separates most programs is the coaching. And Craig Buzea can coach. I've never been to Crown Point, but from what I'm hearing, it's a strong community. Couple that with great coaching and you have championship caliber program. I really didn't think they'd dominate Westfield the way they did, I have to admit. They dominated the Rocks from the beginning and had them playing catchup the entire time. That alone tells me that the Giants better not sleep on this team...........I don't think they will. 

However, the Rocks did catch up, and as I posted in another thread, I really think they would have scored had they gone for two with 18 seconds left in regulation. CP's defense looked a bit gassed after Westfield scored 21 straight points. This was also mentioned by Kyle Neddenriep of the Indy Star on a local Indy morning sports show. When asked about CP, he mentioned that the past two weeks they barely escaped after giving up multi score leads.

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On 11/19/2023 at 8:23 AM, temptation said:

But has this Ben Davis team really “been there?”  I know I am sort of contradicting myself and I’m prepared for you to tell me I am wrong which is fine…but I think the Carroll/CG matchup last year fits that narrative more so than this one.

Now, if we wanna get into who has been more battle tested and ready for the moment, I’ll have that conversation.  The gauntlet that Ben Davis (under a FIRST year head coach) went through just to get to Lucas Oil may be unprecedented.  The argument could be made that Russ Mann’s squad just eliminated three future Hall of Fame coaches in a matter of four weeks!  I am not a region guy but default to others on the accomplishments of Buzea so we could very well be adding a fourth Hall of Famer to the “hit list.”

And that is not even mentioning Mike Kirschner who BD knocked off in the regular season, Moeller who is still alive in the final 4 in Ohio and a “moral victory” (hate that term) against IMG.

I fear Buzea’s squad is running into a BUZZsaw next weekend.

You probably are right. Going into that atmosphere for the first time is something else. Not sure if this BD bunch has played a game there in recent years, but just making the short trip from the westside sure beats an almost 3 hour bus ride. I know Westfield was awestruck against both playing in LOS and CG in 2020, but that same group the next year had the experience of that game and believed they could beat CG, and came within 10 yards at the end of the game of doing just that. I imagine CP will fill their side of available seats at LOS. It's doubtful that BD will, after seeing the empty seats in their stands for the huge Brownsburg and CG games. 

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47 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

You probably are right. Going into that atmosphere for the first time is something else. Not sure if this BD bunch has played a game there in recent years, but just making the short trip from the westside sure beats an almost 3 hour bus ride. I know Westfield was awestruck against both playing in LOS and CG in 2020, but that same group the next year had the experience of that game and believed they could beat CG, and came within 10 yards at the end of the game of doing just that. I imagine CP will fill their side of available seats at LOS. It's doubtful that BD will, after seeing the empty seats in their stands for the huge Brownsburg and CG games. 

Did you see the BD attendance for the Basketball championship game? There will be a sea of Purple you don't have to worry about that! 

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2 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

However, the Rocks did catch up, and as I posted in another thread, I really think they would have scored had they gone for two with 18 seconds left in regulation. CP's defense looked a bit gassed after Westfield scored 21 straight points. This was also mentioned by Kyle Neddenriep of the Indy Star on a local Indy morning sports show. When asked about CP, he mentioned that the past two weeks they barely escaped after giving up multi score leads.

I mean if we’re talking about coulda woulda shoulda, I’m sure Buz would’ve taken the FG in the 3rd and punted on that last possession instead of the 4th down attempts both times. If he does those two things, then maybe the game never gets to OT to begin with. 
 

But the game was played and the decisions were made as they were, and CP won. 

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1 hour ago, AllGutsNoGlory said:

Did you see the BD attendance for the Basketball championship game? There will be a sea of Purple you don't have to worry about that! 

Just going off what I saw for two huge football games. Maybe because they were out in the weather? With well over 4,000 kids in the school, there should be a huge throng of purple.

12 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I mean if we’re talking about coulda woulda shoulda, I’m sure Buz would’ve taken the FG in the 3rd and punted on that last possession instead of the 4th down attempts both times. If he does those two things, then maybe the game never gets to OT to begin with. 
 

But the game was played and the decisions were made as they were, and CP won. 

True, CP won, and now here's wishing they good luck against BD.

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On 11/19/2023 at 8:23 AM, temptation said:

But has this Ben Davis team really “been there?”  I know I am sort of contradicting myself and I’m prepared for you to tell me I am wrong which is fine…but I think the Carroll/CG matchup last year fits that narrative more so than this one.

Now, if we wanna get into who has been more battle tested and ready for the moment, I’ll have that conversation.  The gauntlet that Ben Davis (under a FIRST year head coach) went through just to get to Lucas Oil may be unprecedented.  The argument could be made that Russ Mann’s squad just eliminated three future Hall of Fame coaches in a matter of four weeks!  I am not a region guy but default to others on the accomplishments of Buzea so we could very well be adding a fourth Hall of Famer to the “hit list.”

And that is not even mentioning Mike Kirschner who BD knocked off in the regular season, Moeller who is still alive in the final 4 in Ohio and a “moral victory” (hate that term) against IMG.

I fear Buzea’s squad is running into a BUZZsaw next weekend.

Ben Davis has an almost completely new coaching staff since the last state run. Pretty much everyone left when Kirschner left or was gone within a couple of years. The only constant is Kevin Vanderbush, and he's been there for all of them. I think Mark Zackery is about the only holdover otherwise. The rest were Simmons or Mann hires (I think). There were some guys who played for Coach Dullaghan on the staff in state games. But, you're right. This is largely a new staff and, obviously, team.

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20 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Ben Davis has an almost completely new coaching staff since the last state run. Pretty much everyone left when Kirschner left or was gone within a couple of years. The only constant is Kevin Vanderbush, and he's been there for all of them. I think Mark Zackery is about the only holdover otherwise. The rest were Simmons or Mann hires (I think). There were some guys who played for Coach Dullaghan on the staff in state games. But, you're right. This is largely a new staff and, obviously, team.

New staff or not, it's hard to not love the Giants in this one. Although, coach Buzz and the boys have made me eat crow with @temptation each of the past two Saturday's, I think the Giants will be too much for the 6A Northern Champions. I will, however, not be surprised anymore if Crown Point can hang with the Giants based on how they've played in back to back games where not many people (me included) gave them a shot to win one of those games let alone both. I didn't think Crown Point's O-Line could impress me anymore than they already had after Penn, and then they played Westfield... If they can find a way to control the line of scrimmage, again, they'll have a shot to win, again. If not, then the Giants roll as many are predicting already. 

Ben Davis 31

Crown Point 21

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3 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

However, the Rocks did catch up, and as I posted in another thread, I really think they would have scored had they gone for two with 18 seconds left in regulation. CP's defense looked a bit gassed after Westfield scored 21 straight points. This was also mentioned by Kyle Neddenriep of the Indy Star on a local Indy morning sports show. When asked about CP, he mentioned that the past two weeks they barely escaped after giving up multi score leads.

They did catch up, kudos to them. It's a four quarter game. I have a lot of respect for the Westfield program. They do with what they have as well as anyone in the state. They're so good, no one was giving Crown Point a chance. But Crown Point did win the game, and they are still being downplayed. Not sure what else this team has to do. Unless they beat Ben Davis, they are in a no win situation. If they are competitive to the tune of a 35-21 loss, many will turn to the Center Grove overtime game and say that was the "real" state championship. Right now I have Crown Point at #4 in the state, and it's well deserved. 

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6 minutes ago, BTF said:

They did catch up, kudos to them. It's a four quarter game. I have a lot of respect for the Westfield program. They do with what they have as well as anyone in the state. They're so good, no one was giving Crown Point a chance. But Crown Point did win the game, and they are still being downplayed. Not sure what else this team has to do. Unless they beat Ben Davis, they are in a no win situation. If they are competitive to the tune of a 35-21 loss, many will turn to the Center Grove overtime game and say that was the "real" state championship. Right now I have Crown Point at #4 in the state, and it's well deserved. 

I was told from mid-season on that I had Crown Point overrated and they were not a top 10 team…”more like 12-15” was the quote I believe.

Much of the same was said about Penn.

”No way they are better than Carroll!”

This will likely piss people off but let’s not forget that Brownsburg TRUCKED Westfield on the road and had BD on the ropes before losing a heartbreaker.

What could that possibly say about the gap from BD to Crown Point?

 

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4 minutes ago, temptation said:

I was told from mid-season on that I had Crown Point overrated and they were not a top 10 team…”more like 12-15” was the quote I believe.

Much of the same was said about Penn.

”No way they are better than Carroll!”

This will likely piss people off but let’s not forget that Brownsburg TRUCKED Westfield on the road and had BD on the ropes before losing a heartbreaker.

What could that possibly say about the gap from BD to Crown Point?

 

I still have Carroll up there with, at least within the ballpark, of Crown Point and Penn. Too much stock is being put into their loss to Warsaw. Just like many on here thinking Snider is average since Mishawaka took them to the wire. Those are hard offenses to defend. Warsaw's time of possession on one drive was higher than Carroll's for the entire game. Again, posters are putting too much stock into "one" game. Warren Central almost beat Ben Davis. EVERY team has a week or two where they just don't play up to par. Some are too blind to see that. 

I have a lot of respect for the time you put into your rankings. At least you throw it out there. I'm still going to take the easy road and put mine out there after this weekend. 

By the way, I still think Brownsburg is the best team in the state. But I'll give credit where credit is due. I'm not sure anything can change my mind this weekend about not having them in at least the #2 position. 

As of right now, I'm not sure how you measure the gap between Ben Davis and Crown Point...........unless we're going by how many miles they are away from Indianapolis. I really don't feel like getting into another transitive property debate. I'm just hoping for a good game, as I know you are too. 

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2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I still have Carroll up there with, at least within the ballpark, of Crown Point and Penn. Too much stock is being put into their loss to Warsaw. Just like many on here thinking Snider is average since Mishawaka took them to the wire. Those are hard offenses to defend. Warsaw's time of possession on one drive was higher than Carroll's for the entire game. Again, posters are putting too much stock into "one" game. Warren Central almost beat Ben Davis. EVERY team has a week or two where they just don't play up to par. Some are too blind to see that. 

I have a lot of respect for the time you put into your rankings. At least you throw it out there. I'm still going to take the easy road and put mine out there after this weekend. 

By the way, I still think Brownsburg is the best team in the state. But I'll give credit where credit is due. I'm not sure anything can change my mind this weekend about not having them in at least the #2 position. 

As of right now, I'm not sure how you measure the gap between Ben Davis and Crown Point...........unless we're going by how many miles they are away from Indianapolis. I really don't feel like getting into another transitive property debate. I'm just hoping for a good game, as I know you are too. 

Warren Central/Ben Davis is a rivalry game, but you have a point. LC played BD very hard too. 

Brownsburg or Center Grove could be playing this week. They were both good enough. Cathedral was too. But...they aren't. The other team in that echelon is...Ben Davis.

I expect we'll see a competitive game on Saturday. This BD team is really good though at full strength, and they are right now. Crown Point can't let them get in automatic mode like they have been a few times this year...where everything is working.

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