Crown Point (13-0) vs. Ben Davis (12-1) 6A State Championship

[BDGiant93]

Let's begin the jibber jabber.

Giants will go for their 10th State Championship in 12 tries on Saturday, and what a year for the Bulldogs!

[temptation]

I’ve picked against both of these schools the last two weeks, lol.

 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

Think BD will run away with it in the second half . Crown Point has let 2 teams come back in the second half after having 2-3 score leads . Looking for a 42-21 type game . 

[BTF]

I'll take Ben Davis only because Indy area teams always win the 6A title. That's all I've got. 

[scarab527]

Buz taking his 3rd different program to the title game, in 2 different states, all in the highest class for that state at the time.

Impressive

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Buz taking his 3rd different program to the title game, in 2 different states, all in the highest class for that state at the time.

Impressive

Makes you wonder how dominant this program can be if he sticks around awhile. 

[scarab527]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Makes you wonder how dominant this program can be if he sticks around awhile. 

He’s taken them from mediocre to the title game in 3 years.
 

They’ve got the community, resources, and numbers to be a juggernaut. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, scarab527 said:

He’s taken them from mediocre to the title game in 3 years.
 

They’ve got the community, resources, and numbers to be a juggernaut. 

Yep, unfortunately they are likely a couple more years away from being able to compete with a team like BD in my opinion.

38-17 Giants.

[Boilerup]

Cp was listed one time as pretenders?

proved a lot of people wrong!

Just so happy a team from the 219 made it to the finals! 
 

sorry to say I believe BD is more talented and speed that will be to much!   
 

But the experience for every little bulldog in the stands will build dreams of playing for a state title ! Can’t wait to see what comes in the future for this 219 school.  Love the region!

[scarab527]

16 minutes ago, temptation said:

Yep, unfortunately they are likely a couple more years away from being able to compete with a team like BD in my opinion.

38-17 Giants.

Agreed. Credit to the Dogs for even getting there because I didn’t think they could. But BD has beaten three really good football teams already to get here. Think the Giants finish the job.

 

[Boilerup]

Agreed 

[BTF]

6 hours ago, temptation said:

Yep, unfortunately they are likely a couple more years away from being able to compete with a team like BD in my opinion.

38-17 Giants.

I honestly didn't think you thought the gap between BD/CG/Brownsburg and HSE/Westfield was that big. 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

I honestly didn't think you thought the gap between BD/CG/Brownsburg and HSE/Westfield was that big. 

Eh, there really isn’t but I feel like BD is on a roll here and the bright lights of the state finals will play a factor.

FWIW I have also doubted this Crown Point team the last two weeks…

[BTF]

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

Eh, there really isn’t but I feel like BD is on a roll here and the bright lights of the state finals will play a factor.

FWIW I have also doubted this Crown Point team the last two weeks…

I feel like anytime a first year team is going up against a team that's been there, the awe factor gets in the way. So definitely advantage Ben Davis. I think in a normal outdoor setting, the CG/Carroll game last year is a closer score. Same winner and loser, just a smaller margin of victory. 

I honestly haven't doubted Crown Point at all. What separates most programs is the coaching. And Craig Buzea can coach. I've never been to Crown Point, but from what I'm hearing, it's a strong community. Couple that with great coaching and you have championship caliber program. I really didn't think they'd dominate Westfield the way they did, I have to admit. They dominated the Rocks from the beginning and had them playing catchup the entire time. That alone tells me that the Giants better not sleep on this team...........I don't think they will. 

[temptation]

25 minutes ago, BTF said:

I feel like anytime a first year team is going up against a team that's been there, the awe factor gets in the way. So definitely advantage Ben Davis. I think in a normal outdoor setting, the CG/Carroll game last year is a closer score. Same winner and loser, just a smaller margin of victory. 

I honestly haven't doubted Crown Point at all. What separates most programs is the coaching. And Craig Buzea can coach. I've never been to Crown Point, but from what I'm hearing, it's a strong community. Couple that with great coaching and you have championship caliber program. I really didn't think they'd dominate Westfield the way they did, I have to admit. They dominated the Rocks from the beginning and had them playing catchup the entire time. That alone tells me that the Giants better not sleep on this team...........I don't think they will. 

But has this Ben Davis team really “been there?”  I know I am sort of contradicting myself and I’m prepared for you to tell me I am wrong which is fine…but I think the Carroll/CG matchup last year fits that narrative more so than this one.

Now, if we wanna get into who has been more battle tested and ready for the moment, I’ll have that conversation.  The gauntlet that Ben Davis (under a FIRST year head coach) went through just to get to Lucas Oil may be unprecedented.  The argument could be made that Russ Mann’s squad just eliminated three future Hall of Fame coaches in a matter of four weeks!  I am not a region guy but default to others on the accomplishments of Buzea so we could very well be adding a fourth Hall of Famer to the “hit list.”

And that is not even mentioning Mike Kirschner who BD knocked off in the regular season, Moeller who is still alive in the final 4 in Ohio and a “moral victory” (hate that term) against IMG.

I fear Buzea’s squad is running into a BUZZsaw next weekend.

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

But has this Ben Davis team really “been there?”  I know I am sort of contradicting myself and I’m prepared for you to tell me I am wrong which is fine…but I think the Carroll/CG matchup last year fits that narrative more so than this one.

Now, if we wanna get into who has been more battle tested and ready for the moment, I’ll have that conversation.  The gauntlet that Ben Davis (under a FIRST year head coach) went through just to get to Lucas Oil may be unprecedented.  The argument could be made that Russ Mann’s squad just eliminated three future Hall of Fame coaches in a matter of four weeks!  I am not a region guy but default to others on the accomplishments of Buzea so we could very well be adding a fourth Hall of Famer to the “hit list.”

And that is not even mentioning Mike Kirschner who BD knocked off in the regular season, Moeller who is still alive in the final 4 in Ohio and a “moral victory” (hate that term) against IMG.

I fear Buzea’s squad is running into a BUZZsaw next weekend.

The current players haven't been to a state championship, but the culture of the program knowing that teams of the past have "been there done that," in my opinion, is an emotional advantage that Ben Davis has over Crown Point. Also, is it safe to say Ben Davis players have played at Lucas Oil? Maybe a regular season game? Also, I think playing a team like IMG gives Ben Davis that "we've already been in a big game" advantage. 

Agree, Crown Point's schedule doesn't compare to that of Ben Davis. But they have shown up when it counts. They wasted a good Merrillville team. Yes, the Pirates are good. They took out a really good Penn team. And looked even better in the way they handled Westfield.

It would be dangerous for Ben Davis not to play one of their best games of the season. I'm not sold the Giants will be a buzzsaw. I'm expecting a close game. I'll eat crow Sunday morning if I'm wrong. 

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

The current players haven't been to a state championship, but the culture of the program knowing that teams of the past have "been there done that," in my opinion, is an emotional advantage that Ben Davis has over Crown Point. Also, is it safe to say Ben Davis players have played at Lucas Oil? Maybe a regular season game? Also, I think playing a team like IMG gives Ben Davis that "we've already been in a big game" advantage. 

Agree, Crown Point's schedule doesn't compare to that of Ben Davis. But they have shown up when it counts. They wasted a good Merrillville team. Yes, the Pirates are good. They took out a really good Penn team. And looked even better in the way they handled Westfield.

It would be dangerous for Ben Davis not to play one of their best games of the season. I'm not sold the Giants will be a buzzsaw. I'm expecting a close game. I'll eat crow Sunday morning if I'm wrong. 

Define “close.”  I feel Like folks do this every year and set themselves up for disappointment. 
 

Who was the last “close” non central Indy runner up in the state’s largest class?

Penn 2015?
Snider 2004?

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Define “close.”  I feel Like folks do this every year and set themselves up for disappointment. 
 

Who was the last “close” non central Indy runner up in the state’s largest class?

Close = A game where the outcome isn't decided until late 3rd quarter or sometime thereafter. 

Folks, meaning those wanting a northern 6A team to do well? "Folks" up north, in class 6A specifically, haven't seen a large enrollment school with a proven coaching staff like Buzea whose 'been there done that.' I think that could be the difference. 

Look, I get it. Ben Davis is good. They were waxing Center Grove at one point in the game before allowing them back in it. Would I be surprised if Ben Davis beat Crown Point by four touchdowns? Yes. Three? No. But honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Crown Point won the whole thing. 

Early prediction: Close game until the fourth. Giants by 14. 

[Rodney]

CP is good

 

Better than BD? Hell no

 

But could they pull it off?

Well see next weekend 

 

They have a chance bring home a title where it actually means something 

Unlike 5a last year

 

 

Which I still believe could have been won by putting together a team of GID members

[BTF]

17 minutes ago, Rodney said:

CP is good

 

Better than BD? Hell no

 

But could they pull it off?

Well see next weekend 

 

They have a chance bring home a title where it actually means something 

Unlike 5a last year

 

. 

Which I still believe could have been won by putting together a team of GID members

Snider was a damn good team last year Rodney. 

I'm not sure a team of GID members could beat Blackhawk Christian. 

[temptation]

47 minutes ago, BTF said:

Close = A game where the outcome isn't decided until late 3rd quarter or sometime thereafter. 

Folks, meaning those wanting a northern 6A team to do well? "Folks" up north, in class 6A specifically, haven't seen a large enrollment school with a proven coaching staff like Buzea whose 'been there done that.' I think that could be the difference. 

Look, I get it. Ben Davis is good. They were waxing Center Grove at one point in the game before allowing them back in it. Would I be surprised if Ben Davis beat Crown Point by four touchdowns? Yes. Three? No. But honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Crown Point won the whole thing. 

Early prediction: Close game until the fourth. Giants by 14. 

Hey, I “want them to do well”…I’ve been longing for geographical parity since I joined this forum…but “wanting them to do well” and “ thinking they’ll do well” are two different things.  With no dog in the fight I want to see competitive state championship contests.

Obviously this isn’t the mindset in the Crown Point locker room but they’ve done well just by making it to LOS.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Hey, I “want them to do well”…I’ve been longing for geographical parity since I joined this forum…but “wanting them to do well” and “ thinking they’ll do well” are two different things.  With no dog in the fight I want to see competitive state championship contests.

Obviously this isn’t the mindset in the Crown Point locker room but they’ve done well just by making it to LOS.

 

I'm one of the only posters on this site that believes you. I think there was a bit of shock factor for you though when Carroll took out HSE and CP took out Westfield. 

Crown Point keeps making strides under Buzea. Making it to Lucas is another one. No shame in losing to Ben Davis. But something tells me they're there to win. 

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, BTF said:

I'm one of the only posters on this site that believes you. I think there was a bit of shock factor for you though when Carroll took out HSE and CP took out Westfield. 

Crown Point keeps making strides under Buzea. Making it to Lucas is another one. No shame in losing to Ben Davis. But something tells me they're there to win. 

Absolutely.  Geographical representation at the state finals is a cool site to see.

What I “want to happen” and what I “think will happen” are often two very different things.

All four corners represented this upcoming weekend.  Love it.

Edited November 19, 2023 by temptation

[BTF]

Just now, temptation said:

Absolutely.  Geographical representation at the state finals is a cool site to see.

Agree. Northeast Indiana has representation with Carroll. The Region now has Crown Point. I'd say now we need Southern Indiana to get on board, but I'm not sure they have any 6A programs. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

If Ben Davis wins , which I think they will , it will be because of the tough schedule . If CP wins (Go Dogs), it will be because of Ben Davis's tough schedule , they are beat up from playing 2-3 straight tough teams . I can hear it already .