Temp’s Top 25 (Week 15)

[temptation]

13 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Don’t throw facts in this, doesn’t fit their narrative. Snider obliterated Warren at Warren yet several weeks later that same Warren team went to Ben Davis and lost on a last minute field goal

They played who again…

I’ve spoken  as nauseam about that BD/Warren contest as I watched all four quarters.

Also not sure Warren is the best measuring stick to use when comparing elite teams.

You also act like East Central played a schedule in the 200s…they played a top 70 schedule and that doesn’t include Moeller who played in the final four in Ohio’s largest class.

Nearly the equivalent of Snider, who is sitting at 49.

Please stop acting like Snider is getting disrespected.  They aren’t.

[BTF]

11 minutes ago, dazed and confused said:

I well may have... does obliterate mean "praise" ?

With all of the "5A is bad" talk, I anticipated many posters outside of Northeastern Indiana claiming #6 is too high for Snider. Apparently you're one of them, and that's okay. Until these teams play head to head to head, it's all opinionated. Nothing is a guarantee on any given Friday. The best post I've seen is in another thread with just a simple congratulations to all 6 champions and runner-ups. 

[psaboy]

28 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ve spoken  as nauseam about that BD/Warren contest as I watched all four quarters.

Also not sure Warren is the best measuring stick to use when comparing elite teams.

You also act like East Central played a schedule in the 200s…they played a top 70 schedule and that doesn’t include Moeller who played in the final four in Ohio’s largest class.

Nearly the equivalent of Snider, who is sitting at 49.

Please stop acting like Snider is getting disrespected.  They aren’t.

I've made my points, my opinion. Nothing else for me to see here. Looking forward to 2024 and Temp's pre-season poll 😁

[Trojan12]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Don’t throw facts in this, doesn’t fit their narrative. Snider obliterated Warren at Warren yet several weeks later that same Warren team went to Ben Davis and lost on a last minute field goal

They played who again…

Moeller: top 5 division 1 Ohio

2 Top 10 3a teams: Lawrenceburg/Batesville 

Harrison OH: 9-4 record.

Outscored opponents 740 to 98

If running clock rule was allowed in state finals they would have put a running clock on every indiana team they played. What would they do against a 6a schedule? Anyone's guess. All I know is they dominated every team on their schedule.

[Komets2727]

13 minutes ago, Trojan12 said:

Moeller: top 5 division 1 Ohio

2 Top 10 3a teams: Lawrenceburg/Batesville 

Harrison OH: 9-4 record.

Outscored opponents 740 to 98

If running clock rule was allowed in state finals they would have put a running clock on every indiana team they played. What would they do against a 6a schedule? Anyone's guess. All I know is they dominated every team on their schedule.

You’re right, you beat who was on the schedule. Where are the 6A teams on that schedule? EC knew this was going to be a great year, schedule up and challenge yourself

Edited November 27, 2023 by Komets2727

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

Snider has a shut down D, so I thinking a Snider & CG matchup could go either way. I would take BD and Brownsburg over Snider. That is my rationale, since they don't play each other we will never know. The only common opponent we can look at is Warren Central, and we all know how those games turned out. 

Snider played WC opening game of the season..CG played WC as a well known opponent very late in the season. That’s not much to make comparisons.

How does one know if they have a shutdown D, if they don’t play the toughest opponents? CG played a way tougher schedule than Snider. 

But hey, fun to be hypothetical.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Snider played WC opening game of the season..CG played WC as a well known opponent very late in the season. That’s not much to make comparisons.

How does one know if they have a shutdown D, if they don’t play the toughest opponents? CG played a way tougher schedule than Snider. 

But hey, fun to be hypothetical.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

I'll chime in on this one. Your question is valid. 

I've been watching Snider football, like Komets, for a long time. This defense is arguably the best they've ever fielded. That's saying something for a program that's played for a state title nine times and who has the best record in Indiana going back 32 years. It wouldn't matter who they played, no one is making a fool out of this defense. It would keep them competitive against anyone. 

I agree with you. It's fun to debate these hypothetical rankings. I just wanted to give my opinion of what I think is a pretty special defense. 

I get it. You'll have some point at Homestead's 17 points in regulation, or Carroll's 24 and say, "what would Ben Davis's offense do if they played Snider?" At the end of the day, when they are playing at the top of their game, they are absolutely a "shutdown D." If you're a one dimensional run oriented offense, you're in big trouble. 

[Trojan12]

27 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

You’re right, you beat who was on the schedule. Where are the 6A teams on that schedule? EC knew this was going to be a great year, schedule up and challenge yourself

Lol challenge themselves? They're under contract with Moeller(d1 ohio) Harrison(d2 ohio) and Roncalli.. Moeller lost in semi state, Harrison lost in regional and Roncalli was down this year. Their conference schedule is what it is and that won't change. 

[Komets2727]

12 minutes ago, Trojan12 said:

Lol challenge themselves? They're under contract with Moeller(d1 ohio) Harrison(d2 ohio) and Roncalli.. Moeller lost in semi state, Harrison lost in regional and Roncalli was down this year. Their conference schedule is what it is and that won't change. 

Know several 6A teams looking for opponents, like Center Grove, Cathedral, and others. They take on all comers 

[Komets2727]

38 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Snider played WC opening game of the season..CG played WC as a well known opponent very late in the season. That’s not much to make comparisons.

How does one know if they have a shutdown D, if they don’t play the toughest opponents? CG played a way tougher schedule than Snider. 

But hey, fun to be hypothetical.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

First, I never bashed Center Grove’s schedule. They play one of the toughest schedules in the state, along with Ben Davis, Cathedral, etc… My point of contention has been East Central and the ludicrous claim by a few people that they are one of the top 2 teams in the state while playing a soft schedule. Let’s be honest, if EC played Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg, or Cathedral’s schedule, they would be fortunate to be 10-3, likely 9-4

[Trojan12]

9 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Know several 6A teams looking for opponents, like Center Grove, Cathedral, and others. They take on all comers 

That's great that they do. EC is not going to break contracts that they've already agreed to. 

[Trojan12]

1 minute ago, Komets2727 said:

First, I never bashed Center Grove’s schedule. They play one of the toughest schedules in the state, along with Ben Davis, Cathedral, etc… My point of contention has been East Central and the ludicrous claim by a few people that they are one of the top 2 teams in the state while playing a soft schedule. Let’s be honest, if EC played Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg, or Cathedral’s schedule, they would be fortunate to be 10-3, likely 9-4

Someone has a hard time believing that the little farm school from southeast indiana was damn good this year.

[Rodney]

they literally have a contract with moeller

 

what more do you want them to do for their schedule, they have to play their conference games

[Rodney]

and to expand on the argument

 

are we going to pretend snider isn't playing SS, Concordia, Northrop, North Side and anderson

 

who combined for a record of 6 - 34 this year

 

 

Hell snider didn't play one single game against an opponent of the caliber of Moeller

Edited November 27, 2023 by Rodney

[temptation]

7 hours ago, Rodney said:

and to expand on the argument

 

are we going to pretend snider isn't playing SS, Concordia, Northrop, North Side and anderson

 

who combined for a record of 6 - 34 this year

 

 

Hell snider didn't play one single game against an opponent of the caliber of Moeller

Tell ‘em champ.

[FastpacedO]

21 hours ago, BTF said:

Lately everyone has been siting Calpreps and Massey's football polls. Why the belief that these are so accurate? Sagarin does a darn good job, but we've seen some flaws.

Calpreps on the year was 928-169 (84.6%) accurate projecting Indiana High School games (pretty darn good). Nationally they were 42,297 8,362 (83.5%) so far still games to go. Ultimately I usually go by Calpreps before Sagarin because Sagarin's flaw is they do not count out of state games. It gives you a solid starting point but still always good to watch the teams at least on film if not in person if you want a full accurate assessment. Hard to do with so many teams in the State.

13 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Why would you place Snider over CG?  CG and BD played to OT in the semistate...BD kicked a FG near end of regulation to force OT.  Are you saying Snider can play even with BD if you believe they should be ranked over CG?  CG's schedule was stacked full of very quality teams, many of them out of state.  Snider could have matched their record all season long?  

Just wanting to understand your rationale. 

I think you know the answer to this question it is pretty obvious. I also 100% do not agree with it either. They will be in 6A next year though. I think 6A will be very interesting next year especially in the South bracket. Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg, and Cathedral have some key players to replace.

10 hours ago, BTF said:

I have a hard time betting against Brownsburg, Ben Davis, and Center Grove. I've got Snider, Chatard, Cathedral, and East Central in a dead lock at #4. 

For all we have possibly disagreed on I do 100% agree with you on this post!

10 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Don’t throw facts in this, doesn’t fit their narrative. Snider obliterated Warren at Warren yet several weeks later that same Warren team went to Ben Davis and lost on a last minute field goal

They played who again…

What narrative? I know it is hard for you to comprehend being in the Fort Wayne area the WC vs BD game. It is a very heated rivalry of East vs West that gets into the heads of all players involved regardless of records. Add in that WC's head coach is the former HC at Ben Davis and there is a lot going into this match-up. Not only that but Ben Davis was coming off of a game against IMG too, it was prime for a trap game but Ben Davis over came it. I know you keep bringing up East Central played who, but their schedule and FW Sniders schedule were pretty even. Opponents record for EC 101-78 Opponents record for Snider 73-81.

9 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

You’re right, you beat who was on the schedule. Where are the 6A teams on that schedule? EC knew this was going to be a great year, schedule up and challenge yourself

Again refer to the above answer. I would constitute Moeller as equal to a 6A opponent. Harrison (Their rival from Ohio) well within 5A. They added Roncalli who was terrific until this year. What won't change from their schedule is their Conference opponents (just like Snider) and their Rival Harrison (OH) they are practically next door neighbors. That leaves them with 2 spots open, they filled that with Moeller (very good) and Roncalli who was 37-4 (2020-2022) until this year (4-7) they started playing Roncalli in 2020. I think they have done their best to beef up what they could, it wasn't expected Roncalli would struggle that much this year.

8 hours ago, BTF said:

I'll chime in on this one. Your question is valid. 

I've been watching Snider football, like Komets, for a long time. This defense is arguably the best they've ever fielded. That's saying something for a program that's played for a state title nine times and who has the best record in Indiana going back 32 years. It wouldn't matter who they played, no one is making a fool out of this defense. It would keep them competitive against anyone. 

I agree with you. It's fun to debate these hypothetical rankings. I just wanted to give my opinion of what I think is a pretty special defense. 

I get it. You'll have some point at Homestead's 17 points in regulation, or Carroll's 24 and say, "what would Ben Davis's offense do if they played Snider?" At the end of the day, when they are playing at the top of their game, they are absolutely a "shutdown D." If you're a one dimensional run oriented offense, you're in big trouble. 

They were a solid defense. Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg, and Cathedral were all balanced offenses run and pass and not 1 dimensional. Ben Davis was very good defensively both run and pass. Center Grove, Brownsburg, and Cathedral were all 3 very very good against the run, but had their struggles in pass defense on the deep ball.

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Know several 6A teams looking for opponents, like Center Grove, Cathedral, and others. They take on all comers 

If they had the opening and weren't already under contract with Moeller, Harrison (OH), and Roncalli they probably would have. Nobody knew Roncalli was going to be 4-7 and mediocre just like nobody knew Warren Central (FW Snider's non-conference opponent) would be 5-7 and mediocre. I would put Moeller against Warren Central this year and Harrison vs East Noble this year and bet money on Moeller and Harrison. The rest of the schedule is what it is with conference opponents for Snider and for East Central.

23 hours ago, temptation said:

1. Ben Davis
2. East Central
3. Center Grove
4. Brownsburg
5. Bishop Chatard
6. Fort Wayne Snider
7. Cathedral
8. Crown Point
9. Westfield 
10. Hamilton Southeastern
11. Fishers
12. Penn
13. Decatur Central
14. NorthWood
15. New Palestine
16. Mishawaka 
17. Warsaw
18. Lawrence North
19. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
20. Bloomington South
21. Merrillville
22. Valparaiso 
23. Leo
24. East Noble
25. Indianapolis Lutheran

I can't argue with your top 25. Good job all year honestly.

[Muda69]

Go Wildkats.

 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

Out of the six games I watched this weekend. 

My takeaways:

1A and 2A games....my God what are they feeding these kids in these small schools. I was impressed with their size and talent 

3A....nothing really to note, other than Chatard is head and shoulders above that level of play.

4A...East Central is growing power in Southeast Indiana. It will be interesting to see what they do in 5A next year.

5A...Snider's D looked to be the best side of the ball I had seen all weekend. I was impressed by how they imposed their will on Decatur Central. 

6A... I have given up on the "we the north can compete" argument...any time one of our teams gets an impressive win in Semi-State we go down and....buzzsaw. One day a team from the north will win, but until then 6A kings remain in 6A south...

I love Snider football, I think they would put up a hell of a fight, better than the likes of Penn or CP have....we just don't get to see it...maybe next years team can be just as good so we can finally see what we all want to see.  Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg or Cathedral take on Snider. Until then, my hat tips to the south.

I hate (in the competitive sense) you guys, but I respect it. 

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Out of the six games I watched this weekend. 

My takeaways:

1A and 2A games....my God what are they feeding these kids in these small schools. I was impressed with their size and talent 

3A....nothing really to note, other than Chatard is head and shoulders above that level of play.

4A...East Central is growing power in Southeast Indiana. It will be interesting to see what they do in 5A next year.

5A...Snider's D looked to be the best side of the ball I had seen all weekend. I was impressed by how they imposed their will on Decatur Central. 

6A... I have given up on the "we the north can compete" argument...any time one of our teams gets an impressive win in Semi-State we go down and....buzzsaw. One day a team from the north will win, but until then 6A kings remain in 6A south...

I love Snider football, I think they would put up a hell of a fight, better than the likes of Penn or CP have....we just don't get to see it...maybe next years team can be just as good so we can finally see what we all want to see.  Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg or Cathedral take on Snider. Until then, my hat tips to the south.

I hate (in the competitive sense) you guys, but I respect it. 

We must be on the same page, I was getting ready to post something similar. Congratulations to all teams and the runner-ups. 

Back at you folks up there at Penn. Snider Nation has the upmost respect for the Kingsmen. There's a solid chance these two teams will meet up next year. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by BTF

[Bash Riprock]

14 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

First, I never bashed Center Grove’s schedule. They play one of the toughest schedules in the state, along with Ben Davis, Cathedral, etc… My point of contention has been East Central and the ludicrous claim by a few people that they are one of the top 2 teams in the state while playing a soft schedule. Let’s be honest, if EC played Ben Davis, Center Grove, Brownsburg, or Cathedral’s schedule, they would be fortunate to be 10-3, likely 9-4

I didn't take your comments negatively...just seeking to understand and having some good discussion.  

I agree with you...a tough schedule takes it toll.  That's why I am not much into transitive property stuff.  Thus my comment about playing a similar opponent at the beginning of the season vs. a season elimination game are not one in the same.

Good, fun discussion!  Congrats on the state championship...one heck of a run!!!

Edited November 27, 2023 by Bash Riprock