Harbaugh’s Hands Caught in Cookie Jar

[BTF]

All this being said, how can one claim that Saban is a better coach than Brian Kelly given what Kelly did over a ten year span at a university with high academic standards. I've been saying for years that Nick Saban might be one of the best 25 coaches in the country. It's hard to say he's top five given the advantages he has with top tier talent. 

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

All this being said, how can one claim that Saban is a better coach than Brian Kelly given what Kelly did over a ten year span at a university with high academic standards. I've been saying for years that Nick Saban might be one of the best 25 coaches in the country. It's hard to say he's top five given the advantages he has with top tier talent. 

So, if you win multiple nattys over decades, that disqualifies you from consideration as a top tier coach because of the great talent you’ve been able to recruit and develop?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

So, if you win multiple nattys over decades, that disqualifies you from consideration as a top tier coach because of the great talent you’ve been able to recruit and develop?

I'm sure there are 25 coaches out there that could do the same thing with the talent that he had. Top 25 is a compliment if you consider the number of college football programs sits at over 830. 

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I'm sure there are 25 coaches out there that could do the same thing with the talent that he had. Top 25 is a compliment if you consider the number of college football programs sits at over 830. 

But they haven’t, so….

He obtained that talent over the years by resurrecting and sustaining a top tier program in arguably the toughest conference. You make it sound like a walk in the park…

5 hours ago, BTF said:

All this being said, how can one claim that Saban is a better coach than Brian Kelly given what Kelly did over a ten year span at a university with high academic standards. I've been saying for years that Nick Saban might be one of the best 25 coaches in the country. It's hard to say he's top five given the advantages he has with top tier talent. 

Kelly has absolutely no excuses now when it comes to academic standards…

[Bash Riprock]

[Bobref]

49 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

He obtained that talent over the years by resurrecting and sustaining a top tier program in arguably the toughest conference. You make it sound like a walk in the park…

And if we’re talking about college coaches, isn’t ability to recruit that talent a skill some coaches are better at than others? Same for player development.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

And if we’re talking about college coaches, isn’t ability to recruit that talent a skill some coaches are better at than others? Same for player development.

Free cars, lots of cash. If winning multiple national championships by using any means necessary makes you the best coach..............never mind. It's no wonder some really good coaches stay at the high school level. 

[BTF]

2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

But they haven’t, so….

He obtained that talent over the years by resurrecting and sustaining a top tier program in arguably the toughest conference. You make it sound like a walk in the park…

Kelly has absolutely no excuses now when it comes to academic standards…

I would argue what Kelly did at Notre Dame with his resources was equally, if not more, impressive than what Saban has done at Alabama. Saban is a good coach for sure. Again, Top 25 is a compliment. 

[Bash Riprock]

41 minutes ago, BTF said:

I would argue what Kelly did at Notre Dame with his resources was equally, if not more, impressive than what Saban has done at Alabama. Saban is a good coach for sure. Again, Top 25 is a compliment. 

Ok…if I follow your logic about Kelly, then why hasn’t LSU been a lock for CFP the last 2 years?  Saban also won a natty at LSU…in either his 2nd or 3rd year at the school. 

I’m not knocking Kelly…just don’t see him at the level of Saban. Please know I’m not in any way a Bama fan or a Saban guy. 

[BTF]

23 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Ok…if I follow your logic about Kelly, then why hasn’t LSU been a lock for CFP the last 2 years?  Saban also won a natty at LSU…in either his 2nd or 3rd year at the school. 

I’m not knocking Kelly…just don’t see him at the level of Saban. Please know I’m not in any way a Bama fan or a Saban guy. 

I think you're just giving your opinion as you see it. As am I. I see a coach who had one decent season at Michigan State. Not that it was that impressive since he was blown out twice that season. He was an average football coach at an average football program. But that one decent season propelled him to LSU. Four above average seasons at LSU, but he did have that one championship, kudos to him. He was awful in the NFL at a team that had lofty expectations. Fast forward to Alabama, a program that was tired of losing. I think the Tide made a commitment to win "by any means necessary" at that point. Think John Wooden at UCLA. Good coach, LOTS of resources.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. He's obviously a great coach, which is why I have him in the top three percentile of all of college football. I just don't think he's the "football God" that everyone else sees him as. Until every single college program has an equal amount of resources, I think it's hard to dub anyone as "the best." When I say he's Top 25, I'm saying he could be #1, or he could be #25. How could one know for sure?

As far as Brian Kelly is concerned, yeah, there's some things about him that lowers him on the likability scale. But he did take Notre Dame to relevance. No he didn't win a national championship, but does anyone really expect the Irish to with their academic standard? He's won everywhere he's been. He'll win at LSU if they give him a chance. 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by BTF

[temptation]

4 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

It’s almost like the back half of the schedule was loaded with better teams, huh?

Played 3 of the top 4 defenses in the country in the last month.

Edited December 30, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

It’s almost like the back half of the schedule was loaded with better teams, huh?

Played 3 of the top 4 defenses in the country in the last month.

I shared a tweet. That’s all. 
 

But we do agree…UM opened up with a cream puff schedule….during Jimmy’s first set of games suspension. 

[temptation]

4 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

I shared a tweet. That’s all. 
 

But we do agree…UM opened up with a cream puff schedule….during Jimmy’s first set of games suspension. 

Did they though?  I mean it wasn’t murderer’s row but ended up being more respectable than first thought.  Bowling Green won 7 games and UNLV 9.

And you knew exactly what you were attempting to do when you shared the tweet, which is framed in an irresponsible way I’d also like to point out.

Though Stallions did not resign until the bye week, he was not on the sideline for the game against Michigan State because he was suspended.  So had the graphic included that game and been titled “with/without Stallions” I would have a tiny ounce more respect.

The MSU game was JJ’s best game of the year by the way.

21/27, 287 yards, 4 TD’s…

Have folks really shifted the goal posts from “Michigan knew other teams’ offensive signs” to “their quarterback, benefited from the sign stealer, recognizing the defense that the opposition was in and relating it to the quarterback?”   Come on.

All of those ridiculous photos that hit social media where Stallions was standing next to the defensive staff yet I haven’t seen one that shows him next to Sherrone Moore.

The media has gotten desperate at this point and it’s just downright pathetic.

Do some homework on this catapult sport story that is breaking slowly and report back to me.

Edited December 30, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

Did they though?  I mean it wasn’t murderer’s row but ended up being more respectable than first thought.  Bowling Green won 7 games and UNLV 9.

And you knew exactly what you were attempting to do when you shared the tweet, which is framed in an irresponsible way I’d also like to point out.

Though Stallions did not resign until the bye week, he was not on the sideline for the game against Michigan State because he was suspended.  So had the graphic included that game and been titled “with/without Stallions” I would have a tiny ounce more respect.

The MSU game was JJ’s best game of the year by the way.

21/27, 287 yards, 4 TD’s…

Have folks really shifted the goal posts from “Michigan knew other teams’ offensive signs” to “their quarterback, benefited from the sign stealer, recognizing the defense that the opposition was in and relating it to the quarterback?”   Come on.

All of those ridiculous photos that hit social media where Stallions was standing next to the defensive staff yet I haven’t seen one that shows him next to Sherrone Moore.

The media has gotten desperate at this point and it’s just downright pathetic.

Do some homework on this catapult sport story that is breaking slowly and report back to me.

I do as much homework as you, just don’t wear rose colored glasses jock sniffing my favorite team. You can’t have it both ways…you claim QB stats are down because of a tougher schedule at end, then try to defend quality of first few games. For Michigan, they were cupcakes and you know it. So stop arguing because you are bored. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

I do as much homework as you, just don’t wear rose colored glasses jock sniffing my favorite team. You can’t have it both ways…you claim QB stats are down because of a tougher schedule at end, then try to defend quality of first few games. For Michigan, they were cupcakes and you know it. So stop arguing because you are bored. 

You are doing your homework in crayon apparently then.  You’re all over the place and you seem to have an obsession with Harbaugh with “tinted” glasses…

Harbaugh’s players and fellow coaching staff members love him by the way.  You and the click hungry screwballs in the national media just can’t help yourselves.

https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2023/12/michigan-players-marvel-at-jim-harbaughs-defiance-change-over-last-year.html

 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

21 hours ago, temptation said:

You are doing your homework in crayon apparently then.  You’re all over the place and you seem to have an obsession with Harbaugh with “tinted” glasses…

Harbaugh’s players and fellow coaching staff members love him by the way.  You and the click hungry screwballs in the national media just can’t help yourselves.

https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2023/12/michigan-players-marvel-at-jim-harbaughs-defiance-change-over-last-year.html

 

 

The discussion was Michigan’s first few games this season and your attempt to make these programs look stronger than what they are. UM rolled East Carolina, UNLV and Bowling Green as they should have…with or without Harbaugh. All are mid majors period.  No shock Michigan QB put up good stats against those teams. Stop trying to deflect and change the topic of the conversation. 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

Just now, Bash Riprock said:

The discussion was Michigan’s first few games this season and your attempt to make these programs look stronger than what they are. UM rolled East Carolina, UNLV and Bowling Green as they should have…with or without Harbaugh. All are mid majors period.  No shock Michigan QB put up good stats against those teams. 

But Ricky (purposefully) attempted to paint a narrative with his slick use of the term “resigned” even though Stallions missed the MSU game.  I simply pointed out that the back half of the schedule was more loaded than the front half and you shifted the goalposts in another attempt to disparage and support the ridiculous/irresponsible graphic posted by CBS.

Stats look a bit different if you include the MSU game, no? 

1186 yards, 5 TD’s 1 INT with a 73% completion percentage once that one is added in.

Its open season on Michigan/Harbaugh right now and everyone nationally is piling on and clutching their pearls.

 

 

 

[Bash Riprock]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

But Ricky (purposefully) attempted to paint a narrative with his slick use of the term “resigned” even though Stallions missed the MSU game.  I simply pointed out that the back half of the schedule was more loaded than the front half and you shifted the goalposts in another attempt to disparage and support the ridiculous/irresponsible graphic posted by CBS.

Stats look a bit different if you include the MSU game, no? 

1186 yards, 5 TD’s 1 INT with a 73% completion percentage once that one is added in.

Its open season on Michigan/Harbaugh right now and everyone nationally is piling on and clutching their pearls.

 

 

 

We agreed the back half of the schedule offered a higher degree of difficulty for Michigan. But then you attempted to embellish the first part of their schedule by stating Bowling Green and UNLV played in bowls. Big deal. They are programs that Michigan should run over and you know it. The first 3 games for Michigan offered very little for the Wolverines in terms of competition for non-conference games. Would have liked to seen them challenge themselves a little more, but worked out for them. The way Penn State and OSU played in their bowl games doesn’t overwhelm most with Michigan’s overall schedule this year 

[temptation]

38 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

We agreed the back half of the schedule offered a higher degree of difficulty for Michigan. But then you attempted to embellish the first part of their schedule by stating Bowling Green and UNLV played in bowls. Big deal. They are programs that Michigan should run over and you know it. The first 3 games for Michigan offered very little for the Wolverines in terms of competition for non-conference games. Would have liked to seen them challenge themselves a little more, but worked out for them. The way Penn State and OSU played in their bowl games doesn’t overwhelm most with Michigan’s overall schedule this year 

I just can’t with you anymore dude.  You know the sport and you almost had me until you tried to cite bowl games results as an indicator of schedule and conference strength.

It isn’t the 1990s anymore.  OSU played without its two most important players and had zero motivation in the Cotton Bowl.

I mean if we are gonna play this game, let’s at least be consistent and not cherry pick.  
 

A Maryland team that gave Michigan everything it could handle just went out and throttled an Auburn team that Bama needed a miracle to beat last month.

Do you know how ridiculous you sound or are you just being purposefully dense at this stage?

You want Michigan to lose so badly tomorrow so you can get on here and take some sort of victory lap and somehow validate all of your garbage takes on this thread.

Did Harbaugh date your wife when he played for the Colts in the 90s?  Something is off here.

Edited December 31, 2023 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:42 PM, temptation said:

I just can’t with you anymore dude.  You know the sport and you almost had me until you tried to cite bowl games results as an indicator of schedule and conference strength.

It isn’t the 1990s anymore.  OSU played without its two most important players and had zero motivation in the Cotton Bowl.

I mean if we are gonna play this game, let’s at least be consistent and not cherry pick.  
 

A Maryland team that gave Michigan everything it could handle just went out and throttled an Auburn team that Bama needed a miracle to beat last month.

Do you know how ridiculous you sound or are you just being purposefully dense at this stage?

You want Michigan to lose so badly tomorrow so you can get on here and take some sort of victory lap and somehow validate all of your garbage takes on this thread.

Did Harbaugh date your wife when he played for the Colts in the 90s?  Something is off here.

Then simply shut your mouth. The issue was you embellishing Michigan’s opening 3 opponents when we were discussing McCarthy’s stats earlier vs later in the season.  You go with rambling dissertations about nothing in general. Just blowing hot air. We get it…you are nothing more than a Wolverine and Harbaugh butt sniff. 
 

Sad part, I’m a big 10 guy..but got choose between a cheating program vs Bama. Not a great choice. 
 

Enjoy the game…and try shutting your fat mouth when it comes to making comments about wives, you keyboard coward. 

[BTF]

3 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Sad part, I’m a big 10 guy..but got choose between a cheating program vs Bama. Not a great choice. 

I don't think Harbaugh is innocent, but I also don't believe Saban is squeaky clean. I still think he's the John Wooden of college football.

Disclaimer: No dog in this fight. 

[Boilernation]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:47 PM, BTF said:

I He was awful in the NFL at a team that had lofty expectations. 

 

Lofty expectations? Are you familiar with why that season was awful? Saban wanted the Dolphins to trade for Drew Brees when it was clear the Chargers didn't want him. The Dolphins execs didn't want Brees and instead gave Saban an injured Daune Culpepper who never recovered and went on the IR a few weeks into the season. Saban is on record as saying he knew once the decision was made to take Culpepper over Brees (despite his wishes) he was going back to college. 

[temptation]

“Harbaugh’s hands caught on the Rose Bowl trophy…”

I’ll be a man of my word now…

Temp…OUT.

[BTF]

20 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Lofty expectations? Are you familiar with why that season was awful? Saban wanted the Dolphins to trade for Drew Brees when it was clear the Chargers didn't want him. The Dolphins execs didn't want Brees and instead gave Saban an injured Daune Culpepper who never recovered and went on the IR a few weeks into the season. Saban is on record as saying he knew once the decision was made to take Culpepper over Brees (despite his wishes) he was going back to college. 

Yeah, but 6-10? Saban is a great coach, I'm just not ready to anoint him as the best of all time like some have. Resources.........lot's of them. 

[Boilernation]

40 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yeah, but 6-10? Saban is a great coach, I'm just not ready to anoint him as the best of all time like some have. Resources.........lot's of them. 

6-10 is is reality for a lot of NFL coaches who go into the season with no real talent at QB1. Not really sure it's that big of a blemish on the guy. Besides, the NFL has no bearing on being the GOAT in College. Resources? A lot of the Blue Bloods he's beaen over the years also have resources. Especially in the SEC. Feels like you're really reaching. The guy first won with with the strength of his defenses at LSU/Bama and then adjusted with the evolution of the game to build championship caliber offenses. He's the epitome of being a CEO as HC.