Bobref Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: We need @Bobref our resident OH expert to chime in. Can’t say I’ve ever heard about max size for a high school by law. There is a statute that specifies maximum staff-to-student ratios, but that is for elementary schools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US31 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 1/25/2024 at 10:29 PM, vicvinegar said: Where is Warren? Lawrence Central? Jeff? Elkhart? I mean Elkhart just consolidated... One would think they should be at the top of the list!!! Not arguing with your premise.....but Elkhart is a bad example. The discussion is about school corporations. Elkhart was always one corporation...in the 70s they split into two highschools. They recently combinded Memorial and Central back into Elkhart High School (which had previously existed). It would be similar to Fishers and HSE combining back into HSE (not that it would every happen in anyone's lifetime). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Bobref said: Can’t say I’ve ever heard about max size for a high school by law. There is a statute that specifies maximum staff-to-student ratios, but that is for elementary schools. Thanks. To be honest, I feel like the discussion might have even been around the time Fishers HS became a 9-12 building. Have I really been around the board that long? (Nobody answer that) To bring it back to the original premise, a minimum size might make sense, but I also think a maximum size should be discussed. Does Carmel educate students better than HSE/Fishers? Should there be two HS in Clay township? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US31 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 12 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said: To bring it back to the original premise, a minimum size might make sense, but I also think a maximum size should be discussed. Does Carmel educate students better than HSE/Fishers? Should there be two HS in Clay township? I'll say two things.... One I don't see any way there would ever be a 2nd Carmel High School....it would be very difficult for them to find room to build it at this point, and I don't see the evidence that Carmel will continue to increase in student enrollment much more. I also have never gotten the impression there is a desire in the community to build a second high school. Two (and this is from my personal opinion on school "quality of life" ....not from an athletics/finance perspective). I've come to believe the "sweet spot" for high school size is right around 2,000 kids. Or maybe a range of a few hundred over or under that. A large enough school you have enough resources to offer a variety of quality programs to your students and community, but not so large that it becomes impossible to still participate in some of the traditional experiences of "high school life". We used to joke about how many trophies you could win with the last 5 kids cut from Carmel's basketball team, or the 2nd best swimmers in every event for Carmel girls swimming, etc, etc. When a school becomes massive...a lot more kids are locked out of those opportunities. There are only so many spots on the teams....so many characters in the play....so many seats on the student council. My 2 cents....likely worth as much.👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 46 minutes ago, US31 said: I'll say two things.... One I don't see any way there would ever be a 2nd Carmel High School....it would be very difficult for them to find room to build it at this point, and I don't see the evidence that Carmel will continue to increase in student enrollment much more. I also have never gotten the impression there is a desire in the community to build a second high school. Two (and this is from my personal opinion on school "quality of life" ....not from an athletics/finance perspective). I've come to believe the "sweet spot" for high school size is right around 2,000 kids. Or maybe a range of a few hundred over or under that. A large enough school you have enough resources to offer a variety of quality programs to your students and community, but not so large that it becomes impossible to still participate in some of the traditional experiences of "high school life". We used to joke about how many trophies you could win with the last 5 kids cut from Carmel's basketball team, or the 2nd best swimmers in every event for Carmel girls swimming, etc, etc. When a school becomes massive...a lot more kids are locked out of those opportunities. There are only so many spots on the teams....so many characters in the play....so many seats on the student council. My 2 cents....likely worth as much.👍 Agree on all counts. And also why I said "should there" not "would there" be two Clay Township schools. Maybe if they named the existing campus Prada Carmel and the new campus Carmel Chanel they would go for it? (Only joking.) 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 On 1/25/2024 at 10:29 PM, vicvinegar said: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/indiana/rankings Speedway has less than 2,000. Now let's look at the schools once you get pass the wealthy suburbs of Indy. What I see is Heritage Hills, Cascade, Tell City, Eastern, Northwestern, Manchester, North Putnam, Argos... The list goes on. Where is Warren? Lawrence Central? Jeff? Elkhart? I mean Elkhart just consolidated... One would think they should be at the top of the list!!! I have taught/coached at a lot of schools. Some were in a wealthy community, some in a poor community. Some were large corporations and others were small. There are a lot of factors that go into a school corporation being successful academically. One of the last factors would be school corporation size. The most important would be parent involvement. So how about we start by fixing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 11 hours ago, Goose Liver said: Are there any school systems that have student enrollments of 50,000 anywhere in the United States? (asking for a friend) Virginia school districts are County wide districts; one county=1 school district. I almost took a job in Prince William County in the Manassas area. It was a huge district, with 17 high schools, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/5/2024 at 6:10 AM, Goose Liver said: Are there any school systems that have student enrollments of 50,000 anywhere in the United States? (asking for a friend) WorldAtlas Largest School Districts In The United States Rank School district name Location Enrollment 1 New York City Department of Education New York 995,336 2 Los Angeles Unified School District California 667,273 3 Puerto Rico Department of Education Puerto Rico 437,202 4 Chicago Public Schools Illinois 405,655 5 Miami-Dade County Public Schools Florida 347,366 6 Clark County School District Nevada 314,059 7 Broward County Public Schools Florida 256,472 8 Houston Independent School District Texas 204,245 9 Hillsborough County Public Schools Florida 194,525 10 Hawaii Department of Education Hawaii 179,601 11 Orange County Public Schools Florida 176,008 12 School District of Palm Beach County Florida 174,663 13 Fairfax County Public Schools Virginia 174,479 14 School District of Philadelphia Pennsylvania 166,233 15 Gwinnett County Public Schools Georgia 160,744 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/5/2024 at 6:10 AM, Goose Liver said: Are there any school systems that have student enrollments of 50,000 anywhere in the United States? (asking for a friend) My old school district, Cy-Fair in Texas, is 100,000+. Currently has 13 high schools in it with 12 ranked the equivalent of Indiana 6A and 9 of them with 3,000+ enrollment ... and they are only about half the size of Houston Independent School District. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 6 hours ago, Robert said: WorldAtlas Largest School Districts In The United States Rank School district name Location Enrollment 1 New York City Department of Education New York 995,336 2 Los Angeles Unified School District California 667,273 3 Puerto Rico Department of Education Puerto Rico 437,202 4 Chicago Public Schools Illinois 405,655 5 Miami-Dade County Public Schools Florida 347,366 6 Clark County School District Nevada 314,059 7 Broward County Public Schools Florida 256,472 8 Houston Independent School District Texas 204,245 9 Hillsborough County Public Schools Florida 194,525 10 Hawaii Department of Education Hawaii 179,601 11 Orange County Public Schools Florida 176,008 12 School District of Palm Beach County Florida 174,663 13 Fairfax County Public Schools Virginia 174,479 14 School District of Philadelphia Pennsylvania 166,233 15 Gwinnett County Public Schools Georgia 160,744 With CPS at #4, that doesn't include suburban schools such as New Trier and Naperville North. The Catholic juggernaut of traditional power Mt. Carmel isn't on this list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 2/5/2024 at 4:20 PM, Robert said: Where is Warren? Lawrence Central? Jeff? Elkhart? I mean Elkhart just consolidated... One would think they should be at the top of the list!!! Jeff is sitting at just a tad over 2000 or so. At best, at the lower part of 6A, and may end up being at the top of 5A soon ... possibly even next classification. Growth is occurring in the county, Harrison, and less in the city in the Lafayette/West Lafayette area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodKn19ht Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Just for my personal clarification purposes, the original article was referencing corporation enrollment correct? I have seen this conversation shift to high schools and consolidation at that level, and it has become a little convoluted for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, GoodKn19ht said: Just for my personal clarification purposes, the original article was referencing corporation enrollment correct? I have seen this conversation shift to high schools and consolidation at that level, and it has become a little convoluted for me. Yes, it was corporation enrollment, not just grades 9-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 3 hours ago, GoodKn19ht said: Just for my personal clarification purposes, the original article was referencing corporation enrollment correct? I have seen this conversation shift to high schools and consolidation at that level, and it has become a little convoluted for me. Yes it's corporation enrollment, at least the original article was referencing that. Here are the first three schools from the DOE database: Adams Central: 1,360 North Adams: 1,579 South Adams: 1,308 I would love to be a fly on the wall at a board meeting where the folks of Adams County discuss the ONE school corporation that will exist after all 3 consolidate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 16 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: Yes it's corporation enrollment, at least the original article was referencing that. Here are the first three schools from the DOE database: Adams Central: 1,360 North Adams: 1,579 South Adams: 1,308 I would love to be a fly on the wall at a board meeting where the folks of Adams County discuss the ONE school corporation that will exist after all 3 consolidate. Adams County would be a prime candidate for the consolidation that Mr. Hicks is talking about. Much cost savings could be realized, and overall better services for the students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 8 hours ago, Muda69 said: Adams County would be a prime candidate for the consolidation that Mr. Hicks is talking about. Much cost savings could be realized, and overall better services for the students. That will be fought tooth and nail to prevent it. All 3 districts would have factions that would not support it. The services would not be better in certain areas. There is a reason why Adams Central is gaining enrollment and North Adams (Bellmont) is declining. There are many factions that do not get along in the three communities outside sports & extra curricula. Just add that variable in as well. Why would we want to become Jay County and the issues they have? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 15 hours ago, Basementbias said: That will be fought tooth and nail to prevent it. All 3 districts would have factions that would not support it. The services would not be better in certain areas. There is a reason why Adams Central is gaining enrollment and North Adams (Bellmont) is declining. There are many factions that do not get along in the three communities outside sports & extra curricula. Just add that variable in as well. Why would we want to become Jay County and the issues they have? Please elaborate on the reason behind both increasing and declining government school corporation enrollments in Adams County. And exactly what issues goes a one government school county like Jay County have? One wonders if Blackford County and Warren County have the same issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: Please elaborate on the reason behind both increasing and declining government school corporation enrollments in Adams County. And exactly what issues goes a one government school county like Jay County have? One wonders if Blackford County and Warren County have the same issues? There have been some change in the enrollment at Bellmont due to new move ins from the Chicago area. Many of the rural Bellmont families have not been pleased with this & fear safety concerns. There is also a preconceived notion that the academics & culture at Adams Central & South Adams are a better fit for those families now. I will say that this is not me speaking personally, but what I've been told. I know North Adams sent out something on Facebook about thoughts to curb enrollment decline. We all saw that AC was moving to 2A in football due to success factor, but would have any way as the enrollment jumped up a bit. Jay County has to cancel school more frequently during weather events than the 3 Adams County schools. If Adams County residents had their way, you would see the prior consolidations reversed to a degree. Many in Adams County feel that the one school system is not conducive to learning and that Jay County students are not getting the same quality of education. Jay County would probably be better served to have 2 smaller schools in all honesty. As for Blackford, that area is really struggling economically. I believe that has had a major impact on the academics as well as their athletics. What really needs to happen is a career centered school/building to be built between Bluffton & Monroe. Look up Vantage Career Center in Van Wert County Ohio (next door so to speak). If I'm not mistaken, students that want to take certain trade classes, medical, and etc have to travel to one of the schools that offer it. For example media was at Bellmont, small engines at AC, machining at South Adams, and etc. This career center would service students from the 3 Wells County, 3 Adams County, Jay, & Blackford schools. For me personally, I would like to remain at 3 schools in the county. I'd be fine with more than 3 actually. I think 6 small schools would be great academically. For athletics, I'd say request co-ops for football & baseball but separate for basketball & maybe wrestling & individual sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 50 minutes ago, Basementbias said: There have been some change in the enrollment at Bellmont due to new move ins from the Chicago area. Many of the rural Bellmont families have not been pleased with this & fear safety concerns. Sounds like racial animus to me. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: Sounds like racial animus to me. Sad. Maybe some, but there is merit to some of the fear. A police officer has mentioned about the happenings & how those move ins are quite fond of weapons & dislike of police or authority in general. One housing area was bad prior to their arrival & it didn't improve with the arrival. There have been many different ethnicities & races in Adams County prior with little to no issues. The city of Chicago has a lot of problems and some causing those problems were booted from Chicago to Adams County to put it politely. It's not out of hand, but it’s not ideal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 29 minutes ago, Basementbias said: Maybe some, but there is merit to some of the fear. A police officer has mentioned about the happenings & how those move ins are quite fond of weapons & dislike of police or authority in general. One housing area was bad prior to their arrival & it didn't improve with the arrival. There have been many different ethnicities & races in Adams County prior with little to no issues. Didn't know Decatur was such a hopping place. Quote The city of Chicago has a lot of problems and some causing those problems were booted from Chicago to Adams County to put it politely. It's not out of hand, but it’s not ideal either. So somehow the city of Chicago government was able to relocate these "troublemakers", for lack of a better term, to Decatur? What was the mechanism for this? Did money change hands between the Chicago and Decatur town governments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gahoosierfan Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 If two districts consolidate, they don't necessarily have to combine high schools. They could continue to operate both. They could combine resources and share AP instructors and other specialized positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 2 hours ago, Muda69 said: Didn't know Decatur was such a hopping place. So somehow the city of Chicago government was able to relocate these "troublemakers", for lack of a better term, to Decatur? What was the mechanism for this? Did money change hands between the Chicago and Decatur town governments? A local real estate company that owns the housing accepted payment from Chicago to re-home them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 11 minutes ago, Basementbias said: A local real estate company that owns the housing accepted payment from Chicago to re-home them. Hmm, thank you. Sounds like immigrants from "south of the border" that were originally transported to Chicago, then Chicago found a way to offload them out of the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 14 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Hmm, thank you. Sounds like immigrants from "south of the border" that were originally transported to Chicago, then Chicago found a way to offload them out of the state. Not really south of the border. These were born & raised Chicagoans in the "rough" areas to get a clearer picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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