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Muda69

Notre Dame football must vacate wins for violations by student-trainer

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http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/notre-dame/2016/11/22/94281328/

Quote

The NCAA has recommended that Notre Dame vacate all of its wins from the 2012 and ’13 seasons after a former student athletic trainer violated the NCAA ethical conduct rules when she provided six football players with impermissible benefits, according to a Division I Committee of Infractions panel report.

The Fighting Irish went undefeated in the 2012 season and played Alabama for the BCS national championship.

Notre Dame has challenged the vacation of wins.

The panel has also disciplined Notre Dame with one year of probation, a two-year show-cause order and disassociation for the former student trainer, and a $5,000 fine for the university.

"It was a discretionary action by the committee," Notre Dame football coach Brian Kelly said when asked about appealing the decision on vacating wins. "It was student-on-student cheating. Nobody was implicated. The NCAA agreed across the board with that finding. And, (the punishment) was clearly excessive. So, as you know, we're going to appeal this. And one of the options or the clear reasons for the appeal is that the penalty is excessive in its discretion and we believe we have ground there."

....

Is this the nail in the coffin for Mr. Kelly?

 

Mr. Doyel at the Indy Star weighs in:  http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2016/11/22/doyel-how-much-does-notre-dame-like-brian-kelly/94288012/

Quote

Now we find out how much Notre Dame likes Brian Kelly. Because the school has more than enough reason to fire him.

So what does athletic director Jack Swarbrick reallythink of the guy? How about the president, Rev. John I. Jenkins? Do they like him enough to look past the landfill of stink in his program, and find him as blameless as Brian Kelly finds Brian Kelly blameless?

Asked on Tuesday how much culpability he has for the latest catastrophe under his watch, Kelly decided on this: “Zero. Absolutely none.”

...

In Kelly’s mind, he has no responsibility for an academic scandal perpetrated by one of his trainers and two – sorry, three – of his players. It doesn't matter whether he knew about the cheating as it was happening, and let's take him at his word there: He didn’t know. Unethical people went rogue without his knowledge. Those are his people who went rogue, but when Brian Kelly looks in the mirror, this infamous sideline finger-pointer sees only a victim.

More than that, he sees a conspiracy. If you're upset with the man in charge of Notre Dame football, you're just using this overrated scandal – the punishment "was clearly excessive," Kelly concluded – as an excuse for what really bothers you.

"Any negative criticism about me now is because we're 4-7," the mule-headed Kelly said, putting the bra-a-a-a-y in brazen. "It has nothing to do with what came out there today."

The academic scandal is a catastrophe, but not the biggest catastrophe of the Brian Kelly era. The worst thing that happened on his watch was the death in 2010 of Declan Sullivan, a Notre Dame student who was filming practice from a 50-foot hydraulic scissor lift when gusts reaching 51 mph blew the tower over.

So let’s start there as we list the awfulness that has happened during Brian Kelly’s coaching tenure at Notre Dame:

The death of Declan Sullivan. A sexual assault allegation in 2010 against a starting Notre Dame defensive player. The woman who made the accusation, 19-year-old Lizzy Seeberg of nearby St. Mary’s College, committed suicide 10 days after the alleged assault. Charges were never filed.

Now this, the kind of academic scandal that happens elsewhere and allows Notre Dame alumni to get smug on the internet. Because it doesn’t happen at Notre Dame.

It just happened at Notre Dame.

...

 

 

Edited by Muda69

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Let's see these players were academically ineligible for the 2012 and 2013 seasons.  So, if they play in any or  all games then the normal course is you forfeit the games.  So, why is everyone stating it is too severe?

16 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

What about

 

Golson academic issues

Daniels academic issues

A Jones academic issues

the 5 in this mess

those arrested this summer for possession of a gun and marijuana

 

the list is long................and Kelly is the CFO of the football team

so there is a small crust of the matter

 

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It's not too harsh. It's totally unacceptable at Notre Dame. Anyone can have the occasional bad season - like this one. But something like this will get a coach fired at ND.

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Kelly and Swarbrick need to go.  They are in this situation because the admission office looks at each player Kelly wants and will take a chance.  Based on the character of many of his players and the off the filed issue they both need to.  And Kelly says tonight in an interview from earlier the academic side is not his responsibility.  He is the CFO of the football team and he never takes responsibility for anything

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Why would this be the nail in the coffin?  ND admin didn't just become aware of this today. 

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1 hour ago, Coach_G said:

Why would this be the nail in the coffin?  ND admin didn't just become aware of this today. 

True, but they weren't 4-7 when they first learned of the issue either. 

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But they knew this while the season was unfolding...fans have the shock today, but this is old news to those inside, and you could tell by BKs attitude what they think of it. 

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13 hours ago, Indian72 said:

Kelly and Swarbrick need to go.  They are in this situation because the admission office looks at each player Kelly wants and will take a chance.  Based on the character of many of his players and the off the filed issue they both need to.  And Kelly says tonight in an interview from earlier the academic side is not his responsibility.  He is the CFO of the football team and he never takes responsibility for anything

I think it really says something about D1 college football where ND's two best recent seasons in recent memory were with a number of academically ineligible players.  Players that apparently ND "took a chance" on.    Would these student athletes have been in academic problems at Ohio State?  Alabama?  Texas?  etc.?

 

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2 hours ago, Coach_G said:

But they knew this while the season was unfolding...fans have the shock today, but this is old news to those inside, and you could tell by BKs attitude what they think of it. 

Public scrutiny often changes the perception of many "insiders".  BK's attitude shouldn't shock anyone, he survived the death of a student, why would he worry about something this "trivial" (at least in his own mind).  

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When the trustees met last month to determine his fate they were privy to this info, and the likelihood of a non bowl season.  They came out with the vote of confidence.  BK might be on Les Miles type watch at ND, but he'll be back unless he chooses to leave....or if something comes out that the trustees were not privy too.

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And Ray Rice was still a member of the Baltimore Ravens/NFL before the casino security video was released.  Lots of minds can be changed once a controversy is played out in the court of public opinion.

I actually agree with your overall point, Coach, that Kelly will be back (whether he should be back is another question), but a number of coaching changes have taken place after votes of confidence.  It may not happen in this instance, but I do happen to believe this will have a bigger impact on Kelly and his program than those attempting to dismiss it as old news. 

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Notre Dame = dumpster fire?  Never thought I'd see the day when the Irish were in the headlines due to things like this.  I'm wondering how many people are calling for Kelly's head?  If he's canned and Texas fires their head coach, then that would make 3 high profile programs needing head coaches (LSU being the third).  I think Texas would love to end up with Hermann (from Houston).  Heck probably most teams would love to have Hermann.  He's a hot property right now.  Would love to see him come back to the Big Ten but there aren't any good programs needing a head coach in the B1G.

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Don't confuse Swarbricks comments with a "vote of confidence" his statement came out like an hour after the trustees meeting had adjourned. The decision was made to avoid a job search this offseason.  Will Kelly survive next season...doesn't look good for him right now. I'm sure he's looking. 

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Saw a headline on SportsNation that he is being considered at LSU. 

 

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that was a pure meltdown finish for BK and Irish, personal fouls by Tillery were incredibly poor.   

Not the way you wanted to finish out, you can handle another L, but the way they overall went about that L was bad

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1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

that was a pure meltdown finish for BK and Irish, personal fouls by Tillery were incredibly poor.   

Not the way you wanted to finish out, you can handle another L, but the way they overall went about that L was bad

Kelly needs to go. I am a ND fan. Lost the players. 

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2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

that was a pure meltdown finish for BK and Irish, personal fouls by Tillery were incredibly poor.   

Not the way you wanted to finish out, you can handle another L, but the way they overall went about that L was bad

The culmination of all that has transpired from this past off season to now caught up with them. Kelly points to the lack of leadership in this team, but my thought is that is on you Coach. Did the juniors who left see this coming? And decide to get out when they did? Going further back, with the cheating issue that came up again, along with the death of Declan Sullivan, it appears there is a negative "aura" around the program that needs to be changed. The program is really at a critical juncture. The alumni are likely split into two camps. One side is saying to tighten up admissions and that some of these kids should have never been admitted, while the other side is saying there are risks involved in getting top recruits in so the program can be competitive on the national level. 

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The Irish had it easy for so many years, riding on the success of previous coaching eras. When the goin is getting tough now, there is not a lot of experience at rebuilding form the basement. Good luck and welcome to the Purdue and Indiana club

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On 11/27/2016 at 11:50 AM, southend said:

The Irish had it easy for so many years, riding on the success of previous coaching eras. When the goin is getting tough now, there is not a lot of experience at rebuilding form the basement. Good luck and welcome to the Purdue and Indiana club

 

Woah, that's a bit harsh, but not unwarranted. Notre Dame has a long climb ahead back to relevancy. 

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